Why should one believe Allah?

[Teritos]

There are many witnesses to the crucifixion, even the Jews recorded the death of Jesus in their Talmud. The Old Testament also prophecied the crucifixion. Jesus himself said that he would die on the cross as ransom for everyone who believes in it. So much evidence, but 600 years later a god suddenly comes along and says this without showing any evidence:
They certainly did not kill or crucify Jesus. (Quran 4:157)

The Quran also says about Allah:
Allah is the most cunning. (Quran 3:54)

And as we can see in the Bible, the question was not whether Jesus really died, but whether he was really raised from the dead, which many doubted, even the disciples themselves.

So why should I believe Allah? What are good arguments for it?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There are many witnesses to the crucifixion, even the Jews recorded the death of Jesus in their Talmud. The Old Testament also prophecied the crucifixion. Jesus himself said that he would die on the cross as ransom for everyone who believes in it. So much evidence, but 600 years later a god suddenly comes along and says this without showing any evidence:
They certainly did not kill or crucify Jesus. (Quran 4:157)

The Quran also says about Allah:
Allah is the most cunning. (Quran 3:54)

And as we can see in the Bible, the question was not whether Jesus really died, but whether he was really raised from the dead, which many doubted, even the disciples themselves.

So why should I believe Allah? What are good arguments for it?

All this is not important to many of us? That's why.

 

[Sirona]

I noticed "newer" religions tend to ret-con "older" religions, especially Abrahamic ones, in order to derive authority for the newer prophet/messiah/emissary they themselves propagate. The trick is saying the "new" religion is like the original version used to be, but it was later corrupted. In the Quran, the characters from the OT refer to themselves as "Muslims".

 

[rocala]

This point of view is not unique to Islam. See James in the Nag Hamadi manuscripts.

 

[Sirona]

So why should I believe Allah? What are good arguments for it?

Did you try searching for testimonies of Christians who became Muslims? Their main arguments seem to be that they couldn't believe in the Trinity, and that they found it easier to connect with God as officially, Islam has no clergy.

 

[Teritos]

All this is not important to many of us? That's why.

The only way to receive eternal life is through the crucifixion of Jesus, that's what the God of the Bible says. It's about the eternity of every person's soul, it is the most important thing. How can you say this isn't important? Or how exactly do you mean that?

 

[Rival]

***THREAD MOVED TO GENERAL RELIGIOUS DEBATES***​

 

[Twilight Hue]

There are many witnesses to the crucifixion, even the Jews recorded the death of Jesus in their Talmud. The Old Testament also prophecied the crucifixion. Jesus himself said that he would die on the cross as ransom for everyone who believes in it. So much evidence, but 600 years later a god suddenly comes along and says this without showing any evidence:
They certainly did not kill or crucify Jesus. (Quran 4:157)

The Quran also says about Allah:
Allah is the most cunning. (Quran 3:54)

And as we can see in the Bible, the question was not whether Jesus really died, but whether he was really raised from the dead, which many doubted, even the disciples themselves.

So why should I believe Allah? What are good arguments for it?

Allah just sound like a better ****** name for a God. Beats Jehovah any day. ;0]

Aside from that, I think all gods are mental puppets controlled by people.

 

[Left Coast]

There are many witnesses to the crucifixion, even the Jews recorded the death of Jesus in their Talmud.

This is a very optimistic interpretation of what the Talmud actually says, and would not be an eyewitness account even if so.

Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia

The Old Testament also prophecied the crucifixion.

In your opinion, of course, subject to creative interpretation. I'm betting Jewish folks would disagree.

Jesus himself said that he would die on the cross as ransom for everyone who believes in it.

We don't actually know that. That is what the Gospels purport him to have said (in so many words). And they aren't eyewitness accounts, either. They don't even claim to be.

So much evidence,

That's a very generous interpretation of "so much."

 

[Teritos]

This point of view is not unique to Islam. See James in the Nag Hamadi manuscripts.

Is there a scripture written before Islam that denies the crucifixion of Jesus? If yes, show the passage.

 

[Teritos]

This is a very optimistic interpretation of what the Talmud actually says, and would not be an eyewitness account even if so.

Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia

Jesus was hanged on Passover Eve. Forty days previously the herald had cried, “He is being led out for stoning, because he has practiced sorcery and led Israel astray and enticed them into apostasy. Whosoever has anything to say in his defense, let him come and declare it.” As nothing was brought forward in his defense, he was hanged on Passover Eve.
(Sanhedrin 43a, Babylonian Talmud, Neusner/Green, 69)

For eyewitness accounts, see Bible.

We don't actually know that. That is what the Gospels purport him to have said (in so many words). And they aren't eyewitness accounts, either. They don't even claim to be.

At least the author of the gospel of John claims to be an eyewitness, at the end of the Gospel he introduces himself as the disciple whom Jesus loved. See John 21:24.

In your opinion, of course, subject to creative interpretation. I'm betting Jewish folks would disagree.

Who is Isaiah 53 if not Jesus? Or who is Zechariah 12:10 and Zechariah 13:6?
The temple is destroyed, but without temple no sacrifice and without sacrifice no atonement as prescribed. Jesus is the final sacrifice, therefore a temple is no longer necessary today.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

So why should I believe Allah? What are good arguments for it?

On what kind of reasoning do you base a "good argument"?
Because if you have already decided to stay loyal to your current doctrine and try to fight and discredit others, I doubt you'll ever find a good argument to believe in "Allah"(Assuming you see Allah as a different God than the One from the Bible).

 

[Left Coast]

Jesus was hanged on Passover Eve. Forty days previously the herald had cried, “He is being led out for stoning, because he has practiced sorcery and led Israel astray and enticed them into apostasy. Whosoever has anything to say in his defense, let him come and declare it.” As nothing was brought forward in his defense, he was hanged on Passover Eve.
(Sanhedrin 43a, Babylonian Talmud, Neusner/Green, 69)

The actual passage reads:

AND A HERALD PRECEDES HIM etc. This implies, only immediately before [the execution], but not previous thereto. [In contradiction to this] it was taught: On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover! — Ulla retorted: 'Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defence could be made? Was he not a Mesith [enticer], concerning whom Scripture says, Neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him? With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government [or royalty, i.e., influential].'
Our Rabbis taught: Yeshu had five disciples, Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni and Todah.

Babylonian Talmud: Sanhedrin 43

This describes a sorcerer named Yeshu who was hanged and had 5 disciples and was some sort of government leader. Your belief that this is the Jesus of your New Testament is...optimistic at best.

For eyewitness accounts, see Bible.

The Bible contains no demonstrable eyewitness accounts of Jesus. The only "eyewitness" account we have is Paul, who admits he never saw Jesus on Earth and obtained all his information about him from visions.

At least the author of the gospel of John claims to be an eyewitness, at the end of the Gospel he introduces himself as the disciple whom Jesus loved. See John 21:24.

Which is probably the most ridiculous of any of the Gospels to claim such a thing. It was written last, contradicts the others, and purports absurdly implausible events.

Who is Isaiah 53 if not Jesus? Or who is Zechariah 12:10 and Zechariah 13:6?

Browse the forum. Those passages have been discussed quite a bit by our Jewish members.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

***THREAD MOVED TO GENERAL RELIGIOUS DEBATES***​

Ouch

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The only way to receive eternal life is through the crucifixion of Jesus, that's what the God of the Bible says. It's about the eternity of every person's soul, it is the most important thing. How can you say this isn't important? Or how exactly do you mean that?

Because I personally don't believe all of that is true. My views of an afterlife (if I have any), the nature and existence of the soul, and what god even means has no relationship with christianity and the bible. So, it's irrelevant to me.

 

[Rival]

Ouch

Sorry about that. It's our policy to put mod posts in bright red so no-one has an excuse not to see them.

 

[sun rise]

This point of view is not unique to Islam. See James in the Nag Hamadi manuscripts.

And legends among Hindus in India. And Meher Baba.

 

[Trailblazer]

The only way to receive eternal life is through the crucifixion of Jesus, that's what the God of the Bible says. It's about the eternity of every person's soul, it is the most important thing. How can you say this isn't important? Or how exactly do you mean that?

According to the New Testament, the only way to receive eternal life is through believing in Jesus.
Where did Jesus say that we have to believe in the crucifixion or that Jesus died for our sins to attain eternal life?

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

What Jesus said is really no different from what Baha'u'llah wrote:

“O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p.169

“No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183

It's about the eternity of every person's soul, it is the most important thing. How can you say this isn't important?

 

[Trailblazer]

Who is Isaiah 53 if not Jesus?

Isaiah 53 is not about Jesus.

Regarding Isaiah 53:3, Jesus was not rejected by most men. Jesus was rejected by certain Jews of that time, but Jesus was esteemed by many men. Isaiah 53:8, Isaiah 53:9, and Isaiah 53:10 cannot apply to Jesus because Jesus was not taken from prison and from judgment, Jesus did not make His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death. Jesus made his soul an offering for sin, but He did not see his seed and His days were not prolonged, so there is no way Isaiah 53:10 can be about Jesus.

I believe that Isaiah 53 is about Baha'u'llah, and He fulfills all those prophecies.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are many witnesses to the crucifixion, even the Jews recorded the death of Jesus in their Talmud. The Old Testament also prophecied the crucifixion. Jesus himself said that he would die on the cross as ransom for everyone who believes in it. So much evidence, but 600 years later a god suddenly comes along and says this without showing any evidence:
They certainly did not kill or crucify Jesus. (Quran 4:157)

Baha'is believe that the Qur'an is correct, but we have a different interpretation of the verse from Muslims.

Qur’an 4:157
And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Do Baha’is believe Christ was crucified?

Abdul Bahá calls him a martyr, in Some Answered Questions, but also the Quran states that Jesus wasn’t crucified and rather made to look like he was. What is the official Baha’i view, and if it isn’t compatible with the Quran, why not?

Hope this helps you in your spiritual quest.

"Though we cannot imagine exactly what the Manifestations of the remote past were like, we can be sure of two things: They must have been able to reach their fellow-men in a normal manner-as Baháu'lláh reached His generation, and They were sent from God and thus Divine Beings. The crucifixion as recounted in the New Testament is correct. The meaning of the Quranic version is that the spirit of Christ was not crucified. There is no conflict between the two."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, July 14, 1943)

Here's another related passage

"Regarding your question relative to Surih 4, 156 of the 'Quran' in which Muhammad says that the Jews did not crucify Jesus, the Christ, but one like Him; what is meant by this passage is that although the Jews succeeded in destroying the physical body of Jesus, yet they were impotent to destroy the divine reality in Him."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, March 19, 1938)

https://www.reddit.com/r/bahai/comments/ddig8d/do_bahais_believe_christ_was_crucified/