Rakovsky
Active Member
As far as I can tell, in Maimonides' reading, Isaiah is saying: Messiah won't die via "ratsats" before putting justice in the earth and distant places await hearing his teaching. Now why mention dying at all in the verse? The verse seems to be saying that chronologically, Messiah will come, he sets justice in the earth, islands await his teaching, before he dies.
Now, why does it say the islands "await" his teaching before he dies, and not "the islands hear his teaching" before he dies? Certainly, spreading his teaching to the ends of the earth is a goal of Messiah, and if the islands await, then in justice their expectation should be fulfilled. It seems that therefore at some point the islands do hear Messiah's teaching, but it's not mentioned that they do in this verse about Messiah's life before dying because Messiah would die while they are still awaiting his teaching.
In the passage, Maimonides appears to be talking about Messiah ben David dying, as he writes:
Further, Maimonides does not seem to make Messiah's death a conditional. He nowhere mentions the "two Messiahs" theory, and he says "the Messiah will die" and "God has clearly declared his death", not "the Messiah could die", or "a Messiah will die".
M. Morgan writes about this in Rethinking the Messianic Idea in Judaism: "By way of emphasizing messianic naturalism, and by way of countering Christian messianism, Maimonides stresses here that the Messiah will die and will be succeeded by his son and further descendants."
That being the case, my first question here would be:
What does it mean that the Messiah's death would be by yaruts / ratsats?
If Messiah's death is crushing, breaking, oppressing, bruising, etc., does that imply it is different than a peaceful, painless death?
Besides the translations we've already discussed, I can note that of the Russian Lubavitcher Chassidus website. It is like a Russian counterpart to the English "Chabad" website. Its Tanakh translation of Isaiah 42:4 says:
And this raises a second question: Why do Isaiah or Maimonides believe that Messiah would undergo death by ratsats?
My third question is:
Has Maimonides given further Messianic explanations about Isaiah 42:1-4?
It could help us better understand his thinking.
I found Targum Jonathan on 42:1 interpreting this as about Messiah like Maimonides says:
Verse 1: Behold My servant, whom I uphold; Mine elect, in whom My soul delighteth;
Targum: Behold, my servant, the Messiah, whom I bring, my chosen in whom one delights:
Here is a different translation of the Targum:
See my servant the Messiah whom I bring near,
my chosen one in whom my Word [Memra] takes delight;
I will place my Holy Spirit upon him
and he will reveal my Torah to the nations.
(SOURCE: Messianic Exegesis)
My fourth question is:
Are there other Jewish traditions saying that Messiah ben David would die?
I understand that this can simply be a normal conclusion from the belief that Messiah is a normal mortal human, but I still wanted to see if there was more writing on this like Maimonides gave.
Rabbi Nachman wrote:
Uri Yosef writes on the Messiah Truth forum:
I don't think that passing on inheritance implies the cause of death, however.
Ervin Patai, who received his doctorate from Hebrew University, where he also taught, wrote about Messiah's death:
In Pesach: A Kid, a Kid. And All of Jewish History, one writer claims that the scholar lijah ben Solomon Zalman, or "Vilna Goan", had a teaching where an "ox gets slaughtered by a butcher. The butcher is killed by the Angel of Death, And finally the Angel of Death is ended by God." He writes that Vilna Goan's theory includes Messiah's death
Aaron Minsky writes in his book Beyond Faith: Exploring Judaism and comparing it to other religions:
Now, why does it say the islands "await" his teaching before he dies, and not "the islands hear his teaching" before he dies? Certainly, spreading his teaching to the ends of the earth is a goal of Messiah, and if the islands await, then in justice their expectation should be fulfilled. It seems that therefore at some point the islands do hear Messiah's teaching, but it's not mentioned that they do in this verse about Messiah's life before dying because Messiah would die while they are still awaiting his teaching.
In the passage, Maimonides appears to be talking about Messiah ben David dying, as he writes:
Further, Maimonides does not seem to make Messiah's death a conditional. He nowhere mentions the "two Messiahs" theory, and he says "the Messiah will die" and "God has clearly declared his death", not "the Messiah could die", or "a Messiah will die".
M. Morgan writes about this in Rethinking the Messianic Idea in Judaism: "By way of emphasizing messianic naturalism, and by way of countering Christian messianism, Maimonides stresses here that the Messiah will die and will be succeeded by his son and further descendants."
That being the case, my first question here would be:
What does it mean that the Messiah's death would be by yaruts / ratsats?
If Messiah's death is crushing, breaking, oppressing, bruising, etc., does that imply it is different than a peaceful, painless death?
Besides the translations we've already discussed, I can note that of the Russian Lubavitcher Chassidus website. It is like a Russian counterpart to the English "Chabad" website. Its Tanakh translation of Isaiah 42:4 says:
Танах с параллельным текстом на русском и иврите
And this raises a second question: Why do Isaiah or Maimonides believe that Messiah would undergo death by ratsats?
My third question is:
Has Maimonides given further Messianic explanations about Isaiah 42:1-4?
It could help us better understand his thinking.
I found Targum Jonathan on 42:1 interpreting this as about Messiah like Maimonides says:
Verse 1: Behold My servant, whom I uphold; Mine elect, in whom My soul delighteth;
Targum: Behold, my servant, the Messiah, whom I bring, my chosen in whom one delights:
Here is a different translation of the Targum:
See my servant the Messiah whom I bring near,
my chosen one in whom my Word [Memra] takes delight;
I will place my Holy Spirit upon him
and he will reveal my Torah to the nations.
(SOURCE: Messianic Exegesis)
My fourth question is:
Are there other Jewish traditions saying that Messiah ben David would die?
I understand that this can simply be a normal conclusion from the belief that Messiah is a normal mortal human, but I still wanted to see if there was more writing on this like Maimonides gave.
Rabbi Nachman wrote:
Uri Yosef writes on the Messiah Truth forum:
The underlined phrase is an interesting, astute observation by Uri Yosef. I agree that passing on an inheritance implies he died.
I don't think that passing on inheritance implies the cause of death, however.
Ervin Patai, who received his doctorate from Hebrew University, where he also taught, wrote about Messiah's death:
I think the underlined parts are suggesting that Messiah ben Joseph who dies and Messiah ben David who resurrects him are the same person.
In Pesach: A Kid, a Kid. And All of Jewish History, one writer claims that the scholar lijah ben Solomon Zalman, or "Vilna Goan", had a teaching where an "ox gets slaughtered by a butcher. The butcher is killed by the Angel of Death, And finally the Angel of Death is ended by God." He writes that Vilna Goan's theory includes Messiah's death
Pesach: A Kid, a Kid. And All of Jewish History. – By Ben
Aaron Minsky writes in his book Beyond Faith: Exploring Judaism and comparing it to other religions:
