Why So Much Trinity Bashing?

[blü 2]

I'd have to find my old notes, and I'm out of town at present.
But it was likely from 'Is it Gods Word' by Joseph Wheless. He related the actions of 'the redactors' and their not surprising efforts to remove any references to the pantheon of gods they worshipped for some 2 centuries in Canaan. I mean, there are obvious problems with claiming there is only 1 god if you worshipped others for so long. That's a much different claim from simply saying they acknowledge the other gods, but theirs is the best. And bringing up those other gods is, IME, when the response becomes either "it's allegorical" or "those peoples gods were not real".

I seem to remember years ago reading the claim that some part or other of the text of 1 Kings shows signs of the removal of Asherah (where it was speaking of a religious building being renovated or something like that, I think). Some archaeological evidence points to her being Yahweh's escort in the early days of the Hebrews, but I make no comment on the validity of the claim about the text.

 

[Firenze]

I seem to remember years ago reading the claim that some part or other of the text of 1 Kings shows signs of the removal of Asherah (where it was speaking of a religious building being renovated or something like that, I think). Some archaeological evidence points to her being Yahweh's escort in the early days of the Hebrews, but I make no comment on the validity of the claim about the text.

I've seen a lot about 'Asherah as wife of Yahweh' over the decades. It seems clear to me that it stems from that error of conflating the Canaanite god 'El' with Yahweh. The Ugaritic texts clearly state Athirat (Asherah in Hebrew) as the wife of El - not Yahweh. So that conflation brought Asherah into the Hebrew world, leaving them with the dilemma - If you say Yahweh is El, then you're stuck with Asherah as his wife. Yes, I find it a but humorous....

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don’t think correct understanding of the Triune Nature of the Godhead (Trinity) contradicts anything in the Bible, including the scriptures you listed. The scriptures clearly present ONE God comprised of three Personal beings.

What it does is contradict basic logic. Something cannot be X and not X at the same time. You can say God is one if you want. Or you can say God is three if you want. But you cannot rationally say that God is one and three at the same time.

 

[LuisDantas]

What it does is contradict basic logic. Something cannot be X and not X at the same time. You can say God is one if you want. Or you can say God is three if you want. But you cannot rationally say that God is one and three at the same time.

Why not?

Plenty of entities known to exist are both unique and multiple at the same time.

It is, frankly, funny that anyone would impose such an arbitrary limitation on a god already saddled with so many, so more difficult logical contradictions.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why not?

Because, as I said, one of the fundamental rules of logic is that something cannot be both x and not x at the same time.

If someone points to a fruit and asks, "Hey is that a banana?" can you answer "Yes, it is a banana and no its not"???

 

[Treasure Hunter]

What it does is contradict basic logic. Something cannot be X and not X at the same time. You can say God is one if you want. Or you can say God is three if you want. But you cannot rationally say that God is one and three at the same time.

Revealed truth > rational / propositional truth

In a story, you can say something is X at one place in the story and not X in another place.

When you merge two stories together, you can say something is X and not X in the same place in the story.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Revealed truth > rational / propositional truth

In a story, you can say something is X at one place in the story and not X in another place.

When you merge two stories together, you can say something is X and not X in the same place in the story.

We aren't talking about what works in fairy stories. We are talking about claims as to objective reality.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Fwiw, I’m not someone who uses the trinity formulation. In my view, the Holy Spirit is in its own category. Father, mother, son are in their own category. Bride, groom are in their own category. Each represent God. God is multiple + God is one. It’s a story.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Fwiw, I’m not someone who uses the trinity formulation. In my view, the Holy Spirit is in its own category. Father, mother, son are in their own category. Bride, groom are in their own category. Each represent God. God is multiple + God is one. It’s a story.

What mother?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

What mother?

Some call her Sophia. Many call her Mary.

The Bride, Virgin, and Widow

The bride archetype is the beautiful, young woman on the day of the holy wedding. This archetype dominates western culture. She is the spirit behind the impulse for women to post thirst trap pics. When women seek validation through hookup culture, it is in the image of the bride they are...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[LuisDantas]

Because, as I said, one of the fundamental rules of logic is that something cannot be both x and not x at the same time.

If someone points to a fruit and asks, "Hey is that a banana?" can you answer "Yes, it is a banana and no its not"???

And you assume that would apply to the God of Abraham?

I sincerely find that entirely arbitrary.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Some call her Sophia. Many call her Mary.

The Bride, Virgin, and Widow

The bride archetype is the beautiful, young woman on the day of the holy wedding. This archetype dominates western culture. She is the spirit behind the impulse for women to post thirst trap pics. When women seek validation through hookup culture, it is in the image of the bride they are...

www.religiousforums.com

The personification of Wisdom in Jewish literature has nothing to do with Jesus' mom, Mary. And I don't know anyone who says Mary is God.

Are you perhaps a polytheist trying to find your beliefs in monotheistic teachings? Not judging. Just curious where you are coming from. The website you offer presents the classic pagan idea that the Goddess comes in three forms: virgin, mother, and crone.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

The personification of Wisdom in Jewish literature has nothing to do with Jesus' mom, Mary. And I don't know anyone who says Mary is God.

Are you perhaps a polytheist trying to find your beliefs in monotheistic teachings? Not judging. Just curious where you are coming from. The website you offer presents the classic pagan idea that the Goddess comes in three forms: virgin, mother, and crone.

I’m saying this as a non-Christian: The Jewish people would be wise to look to Christ’s teachings to better understand the story. One must be reborn to enter into the promised kingdom. This requires a mother. It doesn’t matter what name you choose to call her.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I’m saying this as a non-Christian: The Jewish people would be wise to look to Christ’s teachings to better understand the story. One must be reborn to enter into the promised kingdom. This requires a mother. It doesn’t matter what name you choose to call her.

Sorry, but Christianity holds nothing for me. I don't need to be saved. I don't believe God has any body or form , that he is not a man. I see that Jesus did not fulfill the propehcies for the messiah. I think God is interested in our behavior, not our beliefs. I could go on and on. I'm totally uninterested.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Sorry, but Christianity holds nothing for me. I don't need to be saved. I don't believe God has any body or form , that he is not a man. I see that Jesus did not fulfill the propehcies for the messiah. I think God is interested in our behavior, not our beliefs. I could go on and on. I'm totally uninterested.

The promised kingdom is ever-present. It doesn’t only exist at some future time. Since you understand that God is spirit, you should be able to understand the promised kingdom is spirit.

How does a human being enter into a spiritual kingdom?
How does a spiritual kingdom actualize in this physical world?

I’m curious what the Jewish answer is to these two questions.

 

[YoursTrue]

We aren't talking about what works in fairy stories. We are talking about claims as to objective reality.

I just saw this discussion, and I'd like to mention for starters that for a long while the trinity has been the central doctrine of the churches. But there certainly are questions about it. And not everyone said to be a Christian agrees with the doctrine of the trinity. For instance, Jesus himself said, “Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” He did not speak of a trinity and he also said that God sent him. (John 17:3)
So while we can perhaps discuss what the word God (or god(s)) means, clearly to Jesus it was very important to know who God is. And I think so, too.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The promised kingdom is ever-present. It doesn’t only exist at some future time. Since you understand that God is spirit, you should be able to understand the promised kingdom is spirit.

How does a human being enter into a spiritual kingdom?
How does a spiritual kingdom actualize in this physical world?

I’m curious what the Jewish answer is to these two questions.

The way I see it, God's Kingdom exists wherever he is obeyed.

I cannot directly answer your questions, because they assume that the Kingdom is spiritual, and I don't think I believe that.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

The way I see it, God's Kingdom exists wherever he is obeyed.

I cannot directly answer your questions, because they assume that the Kingdom is spiritual, and I don't think I believe that.

You said God is spirit. Is the promised kingdom not God’s kingdom? The temple is for God correct?

If any of the other followers of Judaism want to chime in, I’m genuinely curious the Jewish perspective on these questions.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You said God is spirit. Is the promised kingdom not God’s kingdom? The temple is for God correct?

If any of the other followers of Judaism want to chime in, I’m genuinely curious the Jewish perspective on these questions.

Sure, God is a spirit. But am I? I don't know if there is actually some kind of "immortal soul" that survives death. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. But I know that right here, right now, I definitely have a body. So when I worship God, it is not in some spiritual sense.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Sure, God is a spirit. But am I? I don't know if there is actually some kind of "immortal soul" that survives death. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. But I know that right here, right now, I definitely have a body. So when I worship God, it is not in some spiritual sense.

I’m not asking about worship though. I’m asking about the promised kingdom.

I mean, Jewish people reject Jesus based on their understanding of how the kingdom works. These are basic questions..