Why Socialism doesn't work ?

[metis]

Let's see, here in the States, let me just mention a few socialistic programs and some of you reading this may want to add more:

Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
CHIP
the U.S. Armed Services (think this one through)
unemployment compensation (through the states in this case)
infrastructure construction and reconstruction programs
the ACA
federal aid programs
hospital and other health-care subsidies
environmental programs
etc.

These are all programs run by the fed and/or the states through your taxes that are implemented to help the masses in general.

Anyone want to add more?

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's see, here in the States, let me just mention a few socialistic programs and some of you reading this may want to add more:

Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
CHIP
the U.S. Armed Services (think this one through)
unemployment compensation (through the states in this case)
infrastructure construction and reconstruction programs
the ACA
federal aid programs
hospital and other health-care subsidies
environmental programs
etc.

These are all programs run by the fed and/or the states through your taxes that are implemented to help the masses in general.

Anyone want to add more?

Let's look up the definition....
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/socialism?s=t
noun

1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism,characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

You've listed things which aren't the "means of production".

 

[Orbit]

Maybe this is why no one who has actually lived under socialism is ever a proponent of it.
AFP news agency

@AFP
“Our pensions are not even enough for half a box of eggs," a desperate Venezuelan senior citizen tells AFP during a protest in Caracas (link:
https://mobile.twitter.com/AFP/status/1019784782362816512/video/1

Scandinavia does just fine.

 

[Nakosis]

Glib platitudes aside, can you name an economic or government system that doesn't rely on "other people's money"?

Not really the point. The problem being the running out part.

I'm not per se anti-socialist hower the big question for me is in socialism is how to keep the money flowing into government to provide, continue to provide services.

 

[Nakosis]

Also, when you pretend to pay people,
they only pretend to work.

I do computer engineering because I enjoy working with computers as much as getting paid. While there are people work work because they enjoy it, I recognize, not everyone is like that, and there are a number of jobs nobody wants to do.

So how would socialism motivate folks to work who didn't want to and do the jobs nobody wants to do?

I suspect robots/AI would be the solution for the later but we are not there yet.

 

[LuisDantas]

Of course socialism works. Better than any of the alternatives, even.

 

[Nakosis]

Money is needed to facilitate trade. Money wouldn't be needed in a cooperative economy.

What IS needed is a competent government free of corruption and that system has yet to be invented. Until that happens, we'll have to stumble along with mixed economies. It's the best we can do.

Government is people. I don't see people ever being free of corruption. Maybe individuals, but not humanity as a whole.

 

[Revoltingest]

I do computer engineering because I enjoy working with computers as much as getting paid. While there are people work work because they enjoy it, I recognize, not everyone is like that, and there are a number of jobs nobody wants to do.

So how would socialism motivate folks to work who didn't want to and do the jobs nobody wants to do?

I suspect robots/AI would be the solution for the later but we are not there yet.

That would be the Star Trek future, wherein no one needs to work.

Under socialism, one could offer higher pay for hard to fill jobs,
eg, anal wart inspector (an actual job I once heard of).
But we all know that the best compensation comes with
high political office.

 

[joe1776]

Government is people. I don't see people ever being free of corruption. Maybe individuals, but not humanity as a whole.

I agree with your thought, but it doesn't prevent the invention of a decision-making system that gives the power to a group of experts but none to individual members and makes collusion nearly impossible. Today's communication technology makes it easier to do.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Let's look up the definition....
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/socialism?s=t
noun

1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism,characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

You've listed things which aren't the "means of production".

This definition is only accounting for Marxist/Leninist/Stalinist "pure" socialism. But whether you like it to be included or not, democratic socialism, libertarian socialism, market socialism et al are all a thing which doesn't exactly fit your definition but is called a form of socialism in every contemporary polisci book and class. And it includes those countries previously mentioned. Eg Sweden is a socialist country run by a socialist party under democratic socialism.

 

[Estro Felino]

Why socialism works.

The economy of a country is like a machine...which constantly need to be monitored. First the state controls strategic sectors of production, by hiring employees. Other sectors will be owned by privates. The private sector and the public sectors are competitors, but this is balanced by taxes (privates-state) and state aid (state-privates).
All that matters is to keep the production high, so to increase exportation and to satisfy the demand.

 

[joe1776]

Let's look up the definition....
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/socialism?s=t
noun

1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism,characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

You've listed things which aren't the "means of production".

If you don't like them being called "socialism" what would you call services that are not provided by free-market capitalism?

 

[Revoltingest]

This definition is only accounting for Marxist/Leninist/Stalinist "pure" socialism. But whether you like it to be included or not, democratic socialism, libertarian socialism, market socialism et al are all a thing which doesn't exactly fit your definition but is called a form of socialism in every contemporary polisci book and class. And it includes those countries previously mentioned. Eg Sweden is a socialist country run by a socialist party under democratic socialism.

Sweden is a capitalist country with a social safety net paid for by taxes.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you don't like them being called "socialism" what would you call services that are not provided by free-market capitalism?

"Social safety net"

 

[Shad]

Actually many people who live under socialism think it's fine. You know, assuming you don't go out of your way to cherry pick outliers from failed states. Ask someone from Sweden how they feel about their socialised systems. Or Australia. Or Canada. Or...

Those are not Socialist. Those are Social Democracies. Denmark's leader has gone so far as to deny the Socialist label

 

[Revoltingest]

Those are not Socialist. Those are Social Democracies. Denmark's leader has gone so far as to deny the Socialist label

He must have a dictionary.

It's so odd that those advocating socialism cite examples of capitalist
countries, but ignore actual socialist ones, eg, Cuba, N Korea.
This cognitive disconnect suggests pursuit of a false dream.

Ref....
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/michel-kellygagnon/denmark-not-socialist_b_9011652.html
THE BLOG
01/19/2016 10:22 EST | Updated 10/30/2017 19:46 EDT
Denmark: Not As Socialist (Nor As Successful) As You Think

• 
  Michel Kelly-Gagnon

SCANRAIL VIA GETTY IMAGES
Scenic summer view of Nyhavn pier with color buildings, ships, yachts and other boats in the Old Town of Copenhagen, Denmark

Bernie Sanders would like the United States to model itself after Denmark. Not the real Denmark, mind you, but a romanticized version of what its government does, and of how well it does it.

As Danish Prime Minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen himself put it, in reaction to this fictionalized vision of his country: "I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."

Admittedly, it is a market economy with high taxes and an extensive welfare state. But it wasn't always so--and it might not stay that way for very much longer.

 

[Shad]

He must have a dictionary.

It's so odd that those advocating socialism cite examples of capitalist
countries, but ignore actual socialist ones, eg, Cuba, N Korea.
This cognitive disconnect suggests pursuit of a false dream.

Ref....
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/michel-kellygagnon/denmark-not-socialist_b_9011652.html
THE BLOG
01/19/2016 10:22 EST | Updated 10/30/2017 19:46 EDT
Denmark: Not As Socialist (Nor As Successful) As You Think

• 
  Michel Kelly-Gagnon

SCANRAIL VIA GETTY IMAGES
Scenic summer view of Nyhavn pier with color buildings, ships, yachts and other boats in the Old Town of Copenhagen, Denmark

Bernie Sanders would like the United States to model itself after Denmark. Not the real Denmark, mind you, but a romanticized version of what its government does, and of how well it does it.

As Danish Prime Minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen himself put it, in reaction to this fictionalized vision of his country: "I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."

Admittedly, it is a market economy with high taxes and an extensive welfare state. But it wasn't always so--and it might not stay that way for very much longer.

The reason for that is obvious. True Socialist nations fail or become/shift to a mixed system like China.

Denmark is in decline as well.

 

[Revoltingest]

The reason for that is obvious. True Socialist nations fail or become/shift to a mixed system like China

In other words, the only successful socialist countries are capitalist countries?

 

[Shad]

In other words, the only successful socialist countries are capitalist countries?

More like the only successful socialist nations are those in fiction.

 

[Revoltingest]

More like the only successful socialist nations are those in fiction.

Returning to the OP, there fundamental problems with socialism.
1) It's in people's (not all, but many) nature to be independent,
& to want to form associations with others of like mind. They're
compelled to start & run businesses.
Under socialism, such entrepreneurial enterprises must be
prevented, lest capitalism naturally arise to compete with &
outcompete the socialist competition.
2) Socialist countries tend to require an authoritarian government
in order to prevent capitalism. This has typically led to social
oppression too.
3) Without individual initiative as a Plan B, socialist economies
have tended to react slowly & poorly to addressing problems,
hence their tendency for famine, eg, N Korea, USSR, PRC.