Why the Bible?

[HoldemDB9]

A question if I might,

You do not believe that Jesus is God, correct? If so, what do you find that involuntarily makes you believe that? I'd like to see where we differ in coming to our beliefs, I think we could come to a better understanding if we did so...

I have not seen enough evidence to convince me that Jesus is the son of God. I do not have a strong enough reason or enough reasons to convince me that Jesus is the son of God. Saying Jesus was divine in any way just sounds insane to me, it just sounds extremely far fetched - I can not choose to believe Jesus is the son of God. I've really tried twice in my life to become a Christian and I still could not give any more credit to Christianity over all the other religions.

I would like to ask you Mister Emu, why have you choose to believe that Christianity is true? What is behind your choice? And what is behind your choices when you choose the either accept or reject evidence?

I still don't understand how you can have an "informed assumption" that is based on nothing involuntary. Aren't your beliefs based on any evidence or reason? Because you cannot choose to have evidence or reasons and you are obviously going to go with the evidence and reasons if they are strong enough to convince you. Is it really your choice to decide whether or not the evidence is convincing to you?

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

There aren't a lot of people out there that could make a completely unbiased opinion on which religion is the right one because there aren't many people that make it to adulthood without having been influenced or at least confronted with a religion at some point. Simple fact of the matter is that most religious people out there are religious because they were raised that way, and unfortunately brainwashed to think that way. You can't tell me that you are giving a child a choice when you, as a parent, inform your child that if they choose to believe in the bible for instance and adopt the christian faith as their own that they will spend eternity in heaven and if they decide not to that they will burn in unimaginable pain in hell for ever. What kind of choice is that?? When children are small and their minds are developing their parents are their universe, what their parents tell them is just the way things are because they trust them. Teaching that to a child is sick, it's perverted and it makes me ill to think that it happens all over the world every day. It's the parents who feed their children such evil ultimatums that should be spending eternity in fiery damnation, if only there was actually such a place they would be the ones that deserve it.

Sorry if I've ranted a bit.

 

[ayani]

Hi!

You are, of course, most welcome to your own beliefs!

Suffice it to say that we find no dificulty in resolving any purported differences.

well, the differences in commands, examples, and teachings between the two sets of text are considerable. neither Muslims nor Christians tend to take their texts figuratively- a Christian would declare that Jesus was crucified and rose bodily from the grave, and a Muslim would deny a crucifixion and a resurrection.

whereas a Muslim's holy book allows for polygamy, Jesus is clear that monogamy is His Father's ideal. whereas the Quran permits violent retaliation against enemies, Jesus prohibits it. and whereas in the Gospels Jesus is clear that what He sends is the Holy Spirit, a Muslim would declare that it was Muhammad Jesus talks about in the Gospels when mentioning "the comforter", even though in the same sentence Jesus identifies the comforter as the "spirit of truth", and not as a human messenger.

the general and specific differences between what these two faiths look like lived out (Biblical Christianity and Quranic Islam) are considerable. no Christian would call Jesus' resurrection or Sonship metaphors, and no Sunni Muslim would accept a text coming after the Quran as being sacred / inspired.

 

[MEMNOCK]

Hi Holdem,

Just to illustrate, you think that if you were to come to the illustrated fork in the road, you would have no choice which path to take?

An accurate road map would have one path saying "The way to oneness with God(ie the Universe) while the other path would read..."The way to man made religious confusion"...Sad to say that if you want to quote something from the bible that did hit the mark..."The pathway to heaven is narrow and seldom traveled"...In this world, the path to God is the narrow one while the other path to man made religions would be a four lane highway...Just an observation from outside.

 

[MEMNOCK]

More unsupported assumptions. I would contend that MOST Christians have very little knowledge about what is in the Bible, mush less be able to quote it. I would also contend that it appears that you have precious little knowledge about why most Christians do anything. Heck, you are refusing to listen to why I do what I do to the point of attributing motivations to me that I do not possess! No wonder your results are so skewed. Stop acting like you even START to understand us, and LISTEN to what we are saying. This is not for the intellectually lazy. Your bias about what you WANT us to believe is interfering with your ability to see it.

Pete, I grew up a christian, went to a christian school, joined the church as a minister out of college where I preached for 3 years. I think I am just a little qualified to discuse christianity. You see, that is the problem with most christians. All they know is this watered down, mistranslated, man made religion that it has become. Most christians go to church once or twice a week, listen to what the undereducated man tells them and that is religion for them. Sorry if I find that offensive, but it is to me. What gets me is that I have had what you call "holy ghost" experiences(which is a good name for it, but it doesn't explain what it really is) and what God has shown me, was to look beyond what the herd was mindlessly following over the cliff. I thought it was heresy at first until I did start studying the religion. The funny thing was, it had been there all along.

Im sorry, I am doing it again. All I was trying to say was I was answering the question in the OP, I wasn't here to argue beliefs with you. I really don't care what you believe. In the end it all comes down to your relationship with God.

 

[MEMNOCK]

When children are small and their minds are developing their parents are their universe, what their parents tell them is just the way things are because they trust them. Teaching that to a child is sick, it's perverted and it makes me ill to think that it happens all over the world every day. It's the parents who feed their children such evil ultimatums that should be spending eternity in fiery damnation, if only there was actually such a place they would be the ones that deserve it.

Sorry if I've ranted a bit.

I agree Baron, I do not teach my children such lies. It would be a good control device as it has always been, but my children are free of such restraints.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Im sorry, I am doing it again.

Well stop. Please don't assign your failed motives to me. There is no need to lump me into any mindless group, including your own.

 

[lunamoth]

An accurate road map would have one path saying "The way to oneness with God(ie the Universe) while the other path would read..."The way to man made religious confusion"...Sad to say that if you want to quote something from the bible that did hit the mark..."The pathway to heaven is narrow and seldom traveled"...In this world, the path to God is the narrow one while the other path to man made religions would be a four lane highway...Just an observation from outside.

Hi Memnock,

I read your post to Pete about your history with living and learning about God, and the disappointment of religion. I am glad you stick around as a tour guide!

Anyway, you can put any two labels you wish on the sign. My point was more about whether a person believes that they can choose or if they think they are locked into a cause-effect paradigm in which they have no real choice. Is there a you which can choose?

 

[MEMNOCK]

Well stop. Please don't assign your failed motives to me. There is no need to lump me into any mindless group, including your own.

I never said you were mindless, a little defensive arn't we...You know pete, to much oxygen deprevation to the brain can be a bad thing for some...others just make the best of it...the whole lemons and lemonade theory...:drool:

 

[MEMNOCK]

Hi Memnock,

I read your post to Pete about your history with living and learning about God, and the disappointment of religion. I am glad you stick around as a tour guide!

Anyway, you can put any two labels you wish on the sign. My point was more about whether a person believes that they can choose or if they think they are locked into a cause-effect paradigm in which they have no real choice. Is there a you which can choose?

Thanks Luna, and I see what you meant with the sign, good point. As far as the disappointment of religion...I am not with God, just what mankind has done with what knowledge it has been given through the formation of many of the religions. They took a perfectly good thing and distorted it until it holds almost no similarity to its original meaning...That is my true disappointment.

 

[Scuba Pete]

First you say...

I never said you were mindless,

Then you say...

You know pete, to much oxygen deprevation to the brain can be a bad thing

Wow. Such a disconnect from one comment to the other.

Should you happen to read your previous posts, you might see a LOT more implications like that second statement. Thought you should know.

 

[IF_u_knew]

One should never take authority as truth, but rather the truth as authority. This is how I came to see the Tanakh had the truth in it. If you accept anyone's word for it though, then you are taking authority as truth. *shrugs*

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

*** MOD POST ***

Please refrain from insults and off-topic personal comments. Thanks!​

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

well, the differences in commands, examples, and teachings between the two sets of text are considerable.

IOV, not a problem! As the Baha'i scriptures explain,

"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you."

(The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 114;
also Gleanings, CXI, pp. 217-8)

Best!

Bruce

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God.

I have doubts about this, serious doubts. In fact I'd say this is almost certainly not true, how you could even attempt to prove such a thing is beyond me, and how your book could say that there can be no doubt seems to me ludicrous. Any evidence for this?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I have doubts about this, serious doubts. In fact I'd say this is almost certainly not true, how you could even attempt to prove such a thing is beyond me, and how your book could say that there can be no doubt seems to me ludicrous. Any evidence for this?

Apparently, you do not understand the statement "there can be no doubt". It is obviously a definitive statement on the potential existence of doubt, which concludes that "there can be (none)", in no uncertain terms.

Your statement "i have doubts about this, serious doubts" completely ignores the established fact that there can be no doubts, thereby disqualifying any subsequent arguments you make.

In the future, when someone makes such an absolute and unambiguous claim about the existence of doubt, please do not make the arrogant assumption that you are exempt from it.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

Apparently, you do not understand the statement "there can be no doubt". It is obviously a definitive statement on the potential existence of doubt, which concludes that "there can be (none)", in no uncertain terms.

Your statement "i have doubts about this, serious doubts" completely ignores the established fact that there can be no doubts, thereby disqualifying any subsequent arguments you make.

In the future, when someone makes such an absolute and unambiguous claim about the existence of doubt, please do not make the arrogant assumption that you are exempt from it.

This is exactly my point, the very suggestion that there can be no doubt when it comes to a completely doubtable and ridiculous argument is absurd. According to your argument if I was to go on record as saying, "There can be no doubt that the human race is ruled by intelligent squids that shoot lightning bolts from their eyeballs." then according to your argument, anyone that disagrees with me simply lacks the intelligence to understand the argument. I think you maybe completely understood the point I was getting at which I will reiterate now:

The statement that there can be no doubt that all the people in the world derive their inspiration from one heavenly source is just as ridiculous and baseless as the statement that there can be no doubt that all people in the world are slaves to lightning bolt squids.

 

[rusra02]

The evidence that the Bible is inspired by God is overwhelming. Fulfilled prophecy is one line of evidence. While the Bible is not a science book, it is scientifically sound. For example:
Job 26:7 says that God is “hanging the earth upon nothing.” This is true, for astronomers know that the earth has no visible means of support.
The practicality of Bible counsel and the good that comes from following that counsel. Archeological and Historical accuracy.
The list goes on and on.

 

[tbh4512]

Beaudreaux,
I can tell you that i chose the bible for many reasons, the biggest is that it works for me. I grew up in a christian home reading the Bible, it had a negitive effect though. The Bible became more of a fairy tale and bedtime story than it did of the Word of God. At a certian point in my life i decided to take up my own relationship with God and not that of my parents. To this day i have not witnessed any miracles but somethings different in my life. I feal and see Gods presents in my life through many things. Did you know that people is a hospital who are prayed recover better, quicker, and more offten than those who are not. And why do alot of those chritians, true christians not sunday moring christians, act so nice and seem so content. You could rationalize these by putting them of as a neurological effect on your physical body by believing you being helped, but i choose to believe its God. So the reason i believe in the God of the Bible is that it works for me and in my life.

 

[HoldemDB9]

Beaudreaux,
I can tell you that i chose the bible for many reasons, the biggest is that it works for me. I grew up in a christian home reading the Bible, it had a negitive effect though. The Bible became more of a fairy tale and bedtime story than it did of the Word of God. At a certian point in my life i decided to take up my own relationship with God and not that of my parents. To this day i have not witnessed any miracles but somethings different in my life. I feal and see Gods presents in my life through many things. Did you know that people is a hospital who are prayed recover better, quicker, and more offten than those who are not. And why do alot of those chritians, true christians not sunday moring christians, act so nice and seem so content.

And if the Qur’an works for somebody else, just as the Bible works for you, they deserve to be punished for eternity, simply because they were wrong and you were right?

You could rationalize these by putting them of as a neurological effect on your physical body by believing you being helped, but i choose to believe its God. So the reason i believe in the God of the Bible is that it works for me and in my life.

And why do you choose to believe its God? Many would say its because you want to believe its God.