Why the hell do we need relgion ?.

[Quetzal]

I disagree, it's a refreshing view.

You could throw a rock and hit two dozen internet users who think religion is stupid because of "reasons." There is nothing new, unique, or otherwise "refreshing" about this at all.

 

[Demonslayer]

It's obvious you have a chip on your shoulder and have an unshakable bias when it comes to religion. That's a shame, this could be a fruitful discussion otherwise.

Why is it that people who express certainty about the existence of their God are praised for having strong faith and it's seen as a positive belief that we're not supposed to disrespect...

...but people who express certaintly about the falsehood of Gods are accused of being bullheaded and biased and it's seen as a negative belief that can be put down and disrespected?

 

[Quetzal]

Why is it that people who express certainty about the existence of their God are praised for having strong faith and it's seen as a positive belief that we're not supposed to disrespect...

...but people who express certaintly about the falsehood of Gods are accused of being bullheaded and biased and it's seen as a negative belief that can be put down and disrespected?

Nothing to do with the position, at all. But the way you portray that position is important. Saying it is "BS" and people are "stupid" for subscribing to it are very poor ways of expressing this position.

 

[Demonslayer]

Saying it is "BS" and people are "stupid" for subscribing to it are very poor ways of expressing this position.

But what if he has faith that it's BS?

 

[McBell]

But what if he has faith that it's BS?

Then it cannot be questioned.
And if it is questioned, it is an attack.

 

[RedDragon94]

Yes, and that's the problem with religious dogma, it limits that understanding.

Don't see it as religious dogma, see it as spirituality. With spirituality you kind of collect beliefs based on what you perceive the world to be, it grows with your knowledge.

 

[Town Heretic]

You're right, I'm bog Irish so English isn't my first language.

That's okay, if you take a BA in the South you can use an English major as the second language qualification...so I understand.

"Sophomoric" is a nice word, I must look that one up again. "Irony" is one my favourites though.

It's a good one. I love it in deliberate use, though it's also one of the most frequently misapplied words you'll run into. Hackneyed is another good one that doesn't get it's legs stretched often enough.

Sorry, just the season. Can't be helped.

 

[Demonslayer]

With spirituality you kind of collect beliefs based on what you perceive the world to be,

Perception is very flawed though isn't it? It's why you can have 10 witnesses to the same event, each with a different story of what happened. If you simply look at the sun, it appears to be revolving around the Earth.

Basing beliefs on what you perceive is a very flawed system. We need to challenge what we see to ensure we're getting at the real truth of each matter.

 

[Town Heretic]

I assume you have the same "argument" about being asked "are you pregnant?"

Assumption is the problem with both questions. I was fairly clear about the why of my objection to the first and being pregnant might not be objectionable at all, depending on the person. It would be miraculous in my case, given my gender, but the state itself isn't inherently or even mostly used in the negative. Outside of certain hyperbole within old Presbyterian hymns, rooted in a different understanding, "clinging" is mostly used in a pejorative sense, so if someone aims an insult at you in assumption, the punctuation at the end isn't much of a qualifier.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

That's okay, if you take a BA in the South you can use an English major as the second language qualification...so I understand.

I'm afraid this is all we were taught by the nuns:

 

[RedDragon94]

Perception is very flawed though isn't it?

We aren't necessarily talking about things that we observe. Perception in this case is more or less based on feelings.

 

[Demonslayer]

Perception in this case is more or less based on feelings.

Even worse! How many times have you met someone and immediately disliked them, only to grow to really like them later once you get to know them? You want to base our knowledge of the world on feelings?? Nothing is as unreliable and subject to whimsical and reasonless change as human emotions/feelings.

 

[RedDragon94]

Even worse! How many times have you met someone and immediately disliked them, only to grow to really like them later once you get to know them? You want to base our knowledge of the world on feelings?? Nothing is as unreliable and subject to whimsical and reasonless change as human emotions/feelings.

Knowledge informs your feelings.

 

[psychoslice]

I don't think either is "more intelligent" than the other. Intelligence, on top of not actually being a single thing, isn't measured by how accurate a question is to modern scientific consensus.

Well of course there isn't a personal god, what I call God is all there is, its the universe itself, so how can we say who created the universe, to me its sounds silly.

 

[psychoslice]

And do you think the donkeys think how the universe was created ?

No they don't, their too busy being donkeys, he he.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well of course there isn't a personal god, what I call God is all there is, its the universe itself, so how can we say who created the universe, to me its sounds silly.

What's obvious to you may not be so obvious to others, and vice-versa. It has nothing to do with intelligence, but context.

If we go solely by what we see, there's nothing unintelligent with assuming Sun circles Earth, since that's just... obvious. Turns out it's wrong, but figuring that out took advanced mathematics and the kind of observations that most people don't have time for, now or in the past.

 

[Town Heretic]

Why is it that people who express certainty about the existence of their God are praised for having strong faith and it's seen as a positive belief that we're not supposed to disrespect...

I don't think most people are praising the crowd from Westboro, so I suspect many admire an expression of faith that reflects something better.

...but people who express certaintly about the falsehood of Gods are accused of being bullheaded and biased and it's seen as a negative belief that can be put down and disrespected?

I think mostly it has to do with approach. I was an atheist for a few decades. Never had a problem with people of faith who met me civilly in our difference. I didn't go out of my way to mock their mythology and they didn't go out of their way to point the finger of doom at me. The problem is that popular perception tends to be moved by the louder voices and those always belong to extremists, who by their nature are spoiling for a fight and a hill to be the king of...mostly I think our differences can be met genially and with a minimum of metaphorical bloodshed.

I spent several years at a fairly right wing, fundamentalist Christian site and several of my favorite members and better friends there were atheists or agnostics. So I don't see the inevitability of hostility and conflict.

 

[psychoslice]

Because some people would murder, kill, rape, destroy, etc. if not for fear of eternal punishment.

Yep you got it, and I agree, its sad but it is true that most people in this world are potentially dangerous and need a prison such as religion, the prison guards being the priest who themselves are prisoners.

 

[psychoslice]

You could ask me if I still beat my wife. They'd both have the same problem in flawed and assumptive premise.

I see, so you are.

 

[psychoslice]

It's obvious you have a chip on your shoulder and have an unshakable bias when it comes to religion. That's a shame, this could be a fruitful discussion otherwise.

Well why don't you start a fruitful discussion ?.