Why the hell do we need relgion ?.

[Riverwolf]

Such a lovely song.

 

[Town Heretic]

The whole point of this thread is to truly look at religion and ask ourselves why ?.

When do you get to that part?

I'm not really against religion, but I am against organized religion that abuses the name of religion,

Who decides what constitutes true religion?

true religion is only found within each one of us, try to organize that religion and it will dies.

Fail to and it might as well have. Or, while I'd agree the truth of a religion is necessarily a subjective, experiential and private thing, the effects of it almost can't be or we reduce God to some narcissistic reflection.

 

[Town Heretic]

Such a lovely song.

Always thought that was his best post Beatles tune. I don't agree with all of it, but the sentiment seems noble to me and the spirit of the thing really comes through. War has a way of turning violent men into contemplative poets or breakers of things. I like his choice.

 

[Quetzal]

I think by then Christianity will be dead, religion as it is today needs to die so as to allow the truth to arise

Wait a minute, how is your view any different than the religions you speak so harshly against? They abide by that very same idea.

 

[psychoslice]

When do you get to that part?


Who decides what constitutes true religion?


Fail to and it might as well have. Or, while I'd agree the truth of a religion is necessarily a subjective, experiential and private thing, the effects of it almost can't be or we reduce God to some narcissistic reflection.

All that you say is true, but not all think like you, I don't think you would be the dogmatic or fundamentalist type ?.

 

[psychoslice]

Wait a minute, how is your view any different than the religions you speak so harshly against? They abide by that very same idea.

Do they ?, and do they not believe that their choice of belief is the right choice, and that any other is wrong, most sadly do that, these are the one's that I point my question to.

 

[psychoslice]

Beautiful, and this is my song I wrote called Imagine, influenced by John of course.

 

[psychoslice]

Another song of mine.

 

[Riverwolf]

Do they ?, and do they not believe that their choice of belief is the right choice, and that any other is wrong, most sadly do that, these are the one's that I point my question to.

But you're doing that, too. You keep implying that yours is the right choice and that any other is wrong.

 

[psychoslice]

But you're doing that, too. You keep implying that yours is the right choice and that any other is wrong.

No Im not, what I have shared is from my own inner experience, that experience is mine, and mine only, you have to find your true yourself, and all I am saying is that, religion most times will never allow that, unless you are looking within that religion and that alone, and because of this, religion in many ways can be nothing more than your prison.

 

[Riverwolf]

No Im not, what I have shared is from my own inner experience, that experience is mine, and mine only, you have to find your true yourself, and all I am saying is that, religion most times will never allow that, unless you are looking within that religion and that alone, and because of this, religion in many ways can be nothing more than your prison.

You're doing it again. As an outsider to both your religion and mainstream Christianity, I see no significant difference between what you're saying and what they say.

You're saying that I even have a "true self" to find, not considering that maybe I either already found it, or don't believe one exists. Like when a Christian says I have to "find God/Jesus" even while not specifically promoting their own flavor.

You're also saying that a particular way of doing things, which is fine for many people but not for you, is generally the wrong way to do it because it doesn't work for you. Furthermore, you're conflating this one thing with a bunch of other things that have nothing to do with it. Just like Christians have so often lumped all non-Christian religions under "devil-worship".

 

[psychoslice]

 

[psychoslice]

You're doing it again. As an outsider to both your religion and mainstream Christianity, I see no significant difference between what you're saying and what they say.

You're saying that I even have a "true self" to find, not considering that maybe I either already found it, or don't believe one exists. Like when a Christian says I have to "find God/Jesus" even while not specifically promoting their own flavor.

You're also saying that a particular way of doing things, which is fine for many people but not for you, is generally the wrong way to do it because it doesn't work for you. Furthermore, you're conflating this one thing with a bunch of other things that have nothing to do with it. Just like Christians have so often lumped all non-Christian religions under "devil-worship".

No your taking the whole point of what I am truly saying wrong, you are only really trying to protect your treasured beliefs. where as I don't have beliefs, as I said you have to find our for yourself, and if you truly believe you have, then that is good. But many are in their religion because of nothing more than belief, belief in their god or whatever, what I am suggesting is to find the truth yourself and not go through life like a parrot, parroting everything that is told to you, which most religion do, if you agree or not.

 

[psychoslice]

Organized religion
‘You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of Truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to let him organize it."’

 

[psychoslice]

“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.”
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

[Riverwolf]

No your taking the whole point of what I am truly saying wrong, you are only really trying to protect your treasured beliefs. where as I don't have beliefs,

Yes you do. You're stating them right now, and trying to protect them. The only thing about my religion that I'm arguing against is your implication that it's just another flavor of Christianity, simply on the grounds that it's a religion. In other words, I'm trying to burn your strawman.

as I said you have to find our for yourself, and if you truly believe you have, then that is good. But many are in their religion because of nothing more than belief, belief in their god or whatever, what I am suggesting is to find the truth yourself and not go through life like a parrot, parroting everything that is told to you, which most religion do, if you agree or not.

Dude, we're social animals. Everything we do is because others did it, or told us to do it.

"Find it in yourself" means nothing without being told someone else's method for "how" to do it, and "what" one would expect to find. It's ultimately meaningless, because we have no meaningful "self" outside the context of a larger community. The US's overculture of hyper-individualism has largely forgotten this fact, and it's taking me a long time to unlearn it.

The first time I recall hearing the phrase "find it in yourself" was from that terrible Dinotopia TV movie from 15-ish years ago. I've since heard it from other mystic paths long before this thread. It's hardly new or revolutionary, and ultimately meaningless.

 

[Riverwolf]

Organized religion
‘You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of Truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to let him organize it."’

“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.”
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

You denounce "parroting", and then proceed to quote someone without adding your own commentary...

 

[psychoslice]

Yes you do. You're stating them right now, and trying to protect them. The only thing about my religion that I'm arguing against is your implication that it's just another flavor of Christianity, simply on the grounds that it's a religion. In other words, I'm trying to burn your strawman.



Dude, we're social animals. Everything we do is because others did it, or told us to do it.

"Find it in yourself" means nothing without being told someone else's method for "how" to do it, and "what" one would expect to find. It's ultimately meaningless, because we have no meaningful "self" outside the context of a larger community. The US's overculture of hyper-individualism has largely forgotten this fact, and it's taking me a long time to unlearn it.

The first time I recall hearing the phrase "find it in yourself" was from that terrible Dinotopia TV movie from 15-ish years ago. I've since heard it from other mystic paths long before this thread. It's hardly new or revolutionary, and ultimately meaningless.

I can see that you have no idea of what I am trying to say, drop what you believe is personal attach and try to see what I am saying, if you can't well that's good to, its the way it should be.

 

[psychoslice]

You denounce "parroting", and then proceed to quote someone without adding your own commentary...

You sure do have no idea, what's wrong in quoting others who have experienced truth ?.

 

[psychoslice]

If all religion found out that they were wrong, truly wrong, what would happen ?.