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Why the Price of Lattes (and Everything Else) Has Gone Up

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
So, a few pennies per pound of coffee? I doubt very much that it's even that much.

I don't know about your neck of the woods but here the price of fuel has almost doubled in the last 2 years. Fuel cost is a significant percentage of supply chain costs. Double a few pennies per pound here and add other increases, storage, wages etc and you get what is called in the real world "inflation"
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I have two general thoughts on this:

1) If a business can't afford to pay its employees living wages, it can't afford to stay in business.

2) In many cases, increasing prices to match an increase in expenses (be they due to wages or other sources) isn't done to save a business from going bankrupt; it's done to maintain a similar level of profit even though lower profits would still keep the business comfortably profitable.

That said, I believe any increases in minimum wages should be based on a comprehensive analysis and consideration of the different effects that said increases could have on the business, the employee, and the consumer.
Could this be resolved by making loose laws about a company's division of income? For example, X% of the profits go to food and beverage makers/servers, Y% goes to a company-savings, Z% goes to managers, etc.?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Could this be resolved by making loose laws about a company's division of income? For example, X% of the profits go to food and beverage makers/servers, Y% goes to a company-savings, Z% goes to managers, etc.?

I don't know enough about the nuances of running a business to give an informed answer. I would be theorizing at most if I tried to answer this.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I don't know about your neck of the woods but here the price of fuel has almost doubled in the last 2 years. Fuel cost is a significant percentage of supply chain costs. Double a few pennies per pound here and add other increases, storage, wages etc and you get what is called in the real world "inflation"
I call it greed, because that's what's motivating it. Everyone is out to gouge everyone else for as much as they can get. What sets the prices is how much we are willing to pay for something. Not how much it costs to make it. When the sellers complain about labor costs, all their complaining about is the fact that the laborers want a piece of the profits and the sellers don't want to give them any. It's all greed vs. survival. Because capitalism pits everyone against everyone else in pursuit of the greatest profit.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I call it greed, because that's what's motivating it. Everyone is out to gouge everyone else for as much as they can get. What sets the prices is how much we are willing to pay for something. Not how much it costs to make it. When the sellers complain about labor costs, all their complaining about is the fact that the laborers want a piece of the profits and the sellers don't want to give them any. It's all greed vs. survival. Because capitalism pits everyone against everyone else in pursuit of the greatest profit.

Yes and yet fuel cost have increased, whether you like it or not there is a war on
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
None of those costs matter in the least. If they did, no one would be selling lattes.

ALL that matters is maximizing the profits returned on the capital invested. Nothing else. So the price will be as high as the seller can get away with, regardless of what it cost him to produce what he sells. If he can sell you a box of NOTHING, and get you to pay every cent you have for it, that would be the ideal trade according to the capital investors that RUN ALL OUR COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES. So they will bemoan having to put ANYTHING of value in the box. And they will try to put as little value in it as they can get away with, while they are charging us as much for it as they can possibly get us to give them.

The point here is that the price of the latte is not being determined by the cost of producing it. It's being determined by what people are willing to pay for it. And that's all about the public's perception of what it costs to make it, not the actual cost of it. Which is why the capitalists lie about the cost of making things all the time. And why they lie about how world events are raising those costs. Because they know that if we buyers realized they're all just going to price-gouge us for every penny they can get, on everything, we might get angry and decide to forgo buying their lattes and whatever else they sell, out of spite. As no one likes to be deliberately price-gouged.

The truth is that the cost of production is not the buyers problem. If the cost really is too high, then the seller should stop making and selling whatever it is we're making that costs too much to make. But that isn't what's happening. What's happening is that they are using current events as an excuse to lie about the costs of production, so they can raise the prices without the consumers realizing that they are being deliberately gouged, yet again, for the sake of maximum profit to the capitalists.

The reason there's a Starbucks on every other corner is because it costs next to nothing to produce their products, and they're making a killing profit-wise at their price point. But whatever they are already taking in, it's never going to be enough. So they are always looking for excuses to jack those prices up just a little more. So they can keep them as high as possible before people finally decide it's just too much. THAT'S what is really determining the prices of things.

And of course everyone else is doing the same things. So the prices just keep in increasing, as the desire for more profit (greed) never ends.
I truly do not understand your POV at all. If a company is able to sell a product at a high price and customers are willing to pay....what is problematic about it. Price gauging only comes if it's a monopoly and customer has no other option. Obviously this is not the case for latte. Even if you take say Apple MacBook which is way overpriced compared to others, they still get customers who are willing to buy it over many cheaper options. So what is the problem again?
Frankly it's just fact that the cost of milk, coffee and electrical equipment has increased. So local mom-pop cafe prices have also increased. Hence your assumption that greedy corporate PPL are price gauging us on latte needs some convincing.
Your analysis also is historically wrong. Over the last 20-30 years everything from cars to cell phones to computers have only gotten cheaper. This cannot happen if prices are being controlled by a cabal of greedy corporate ceos. I am saying this knowing full well that monopolistic market manipulation is rampant( cases against Microsoft and Apple are case in point). But these are not subverting the price signal as much as you think they are.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Yes and yet fuel cost have increased, whether you like it or not there is a war on
And it doesn't matter, because that's not what's determining the price of things. It's all about how much we'll pay for it. Not what it costs to produce it. What it costs to produce it is the seller's problem. The seller's greed is our problem. Why do you think the oil prices went up? Because they could use the "shortage" as an excuse to raise the price, and get away with it. Then the transportation industry used that as an excuse to raise their prices, and on and on it goes, because everyone is passing the greed on to everyone else. The war did not actually make the production of gasoline from oil any more expensive, and there are still plenty of oil reserves. But the news of a potential shortage was enough of an excuse to drastically raise the prices, because as long as people believe there's a shortage, they will be willing to accept the huge price gouging.

Meanwhile the oil companies are still breaking records year after year in terms of their profits.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I truly do not understand your POV at all. If a company is able to sell a product at a high price and customers are willing to pay....what is problematic about it. Price gauging only comes if it's a monopoly and customer has no other option. Obviously this is not the case for latte. Even if you take say Apple MacBook which is way overpriced compared to others, they still get customers who are willing to buy it over many cheaper options. So what is the problem again?
Frankly it's just fact that the cost of milk, coffee and electrical equipment has increased. So local mom-pop cafe prices have also increased. Hence your assumption that greedy corporate PPL are price gauging us on latte needs some convincing.
Your analysis also is historically wrong. Over the last 20-30 years everything from cars to cell phones to computers have only gotten cheaper. This cannot happen if prices are being controlled by a cabal of greedy corporate ceos. I am saying this knowing full well that monopolistic market manipulation is rampant( cases against Microsoft and Apple are case in point). But these are not subverting the price signal as much as you think they are.

For some people, ideology precedes (and supercedes) data. They didn't arrive at their conclusions through data, and data won't convince them to change.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
And it doesn't matter, because that's not what's determining the price of things. It's all about how much we'll pay for it. Not what it costs to produce it. What it costs to produce it is the seller's problem. The seller's greed is our problem. Why do you think the oil prices went up? Because they could use the "shortage" as an excuse to raise the price, and get away with it. Then the transportation industry used that as an excuse to raise their prices, and on and on it goes, because everyone is passing the greed on to everyone else. The war did not actually make the production of gasoline from oil any more expensive, and there are still plenty of oil reserves. But the news of a potential shortage was enough of an excuse to drastically raise the prices, because as long as people believe there's a shortage, they will be willing to accept the huge price gouging.

Meanwhile the oil companies are still breaking records year after year in terms of their profits.

Bull

The cost of fuel effects the cost of transportation and ALL goods gave to be transported
 
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PureX

Veteran Member
I truly do not understand your POV at all. If a company is able to sell a product at a high price and customers are willing to pay....what is problematic about it.
The problem is that it's expressed greed, not commerce. And it's not fair trade. And when every seller does it, it means that everything we buy is trying to get our last dollar. And it is. The end result being that millions and millions of people are living paycheck to paycheck because every dollar of that paycheck is being swallowed up by this entrenched greed. Meanwhile the most clever and greedy and lucky in this 'system' become multi-billionaires and use all that money to corrupt whole governments, and to start wars for profit, and to do all sorts of nefarious things because money is power. And they are amoral. The whole system is amoral, and oblivious to the well being of humanity.
Price gauging only comes if it's a monopoly and customer has no other option.
But monopoly is the goal of every business enterprise under capitalism. Every capitalist ideals wants to sell you a box of nothing in exchange for every dollar you have. And every trade he makes is "successful" to the degree that he comes closer to that goal. That's exploitation, not commerce. And it result of horrible suffering and abuse. While we IDIOTS tout it as if it were some sort of divine right, and even a virtue.
Obviously this is not the case for latte. Even if you take say Apple MacBook which is way overpriced compared to others, they still get customers who are willing to buy it over many cheaper options. So what is the problem again?
The problem is that it's exploitation, not commerce. And when we agree to participate in it, we cause it to spread, and people to become blind to it. Apple convinced the public that it's product is that much better than the others. But is it? Or are they lying? They exploit the fact that most of us don't know the answer to that question. If you have more money than you need that exploitation doesn't hurt you much. But every dollar you have more than you need is a dollar someone else needs but doesn't have. And all this exploitation hurts them far more.

But who cares, right? That's their problem! We think like this because we have been living in this dog-eat-dog environment for so long we can't even see how toxic it is.
Frankly it's just fact that the cost of milk, coffee and electrical equipment has increased. So local mom-pop cafe prices have also increased. Hence your assumption that greedy corporate PPL are price gauging us on latte needs some convincing.
That's because you continue to ignore the real reasons for the increases in the first place.
Your analysis also is historically wrong. Over the last 20-30 years everything from cars to cell phones to computers have only gotten cheaper.
Then why are so many more people struggling to survive economically? The answer is because we have made all these things more essential. And because they are now essential, the sellers have a monopoly. Try living without a car or a phone or internet and see how long you can avoid becoming homeless.
This cannot happen if prices are being controlled by a cabal of greedy corporate ceos.
They aren't being controlled. They don't need to be. Those CEOs are all united by their mutual greed. No one wants to sell more or better products for less money. Everyone wants to sell less product for more money. Because that's where the bigger profit is. So they don't need to meet in back rooms and set prices. They ALL want to raise them and they all know it. The only question is how quickly, and how much, before the public revolts, or one company edges another one out.
I am saying this knowing full well that monopolistic market manipulation is rampant( cases against Microsoft and Apple are case in point). But these are not subverting the price signal as much as you think they are.
The point is that all this greed together is resulting in the average income being barely enough to survive. How much money the average person can spend to live is what is setting the prices. And that means they will live from paycheck to paycheck until something happens to stop the paychecks. Then they will be kicked to the curb and left to die, literally.

This is the culture we live in because we have allowed commerce to become gross and wholesale exploitation. And you're still trying to defend it.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
The money to pay people increased wages, better benefits, etc. comes from somewhere. Namely you, dear consumer. ;)

Thoughts?
Insofar as there is a relationship between high prices and high wages it is fine. The cost of a commodity should include the cost of keeping the human producers out of poverty.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Insofar as there is a relationship between high prices and high wages it is fine. The cost of a commodity should include the cost of keeping the human producers out of poverty.

Poverty is calculated via cost of living, so there's a bit of a vicious cycle there. But I understand the intention.
 
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