Why was a “virgin birth” necessary?

[Katzpur]

Virginity here is a mental state, rather than a physical state. possible????????

Uh... I'm going to go with "NO!"

 

[Comicaze247]

That sounds about right. As we all know, sex is inherently dirty. :sarcastic

I was being sarcastic

But is there evidence that the emphasis on Mary's so-called "virginity" coincided with the adoption of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire?

I could go into how Jesus couldn't possibly have been born on the winter solstice and still have the other myths of his birth be true, but that's a different topic. The point is that Christianity changed their theology while converting Rome to win over the army more easily, and you couldn't win over Rome without the army.

I know that there's evidence that the crucifix became a prominent symbol during the Crusades, because Rome needed people who would be willing to kill and die for their religion, so they started to emphasize the "sacrifice" of Jesus as a symbol of love. Before that, the theology focused on the miracle of the resurrection, which is much more life affirming.

Hmm, I never knew that one. Nice to know [/quote]

 

[lilithu]

I could go into how Jesus couldn't possibly have been born on the winter solstice and still have the other myths of his birth be true, but that's a different topic. The point is that Christianity changed their theology while converting Rome to win over the army more easily, and you couldn't win over Rome without the army.

I'm not disputing that Christianity changed in order to more easily convert the Romans. I was curious as to whether there is evidence about that particular bit - the virgin birth - being changed for that reason.

 

[Watchmen]

Theoretically speaking, why was a “virgin birth” necessary for the supposed Jesus?
He could have been a natural child of Joseph and Mary and still done the same things as outlined in the gospels, there is simply no reason a virgin birth was necessary.

No - the things outlined in the gospels could not have been done had he been a natural child of Joseph and mary. God was his literal father and it was because of this fact that he could suffer the sins of the world. Such an experience would have destroyed a natural child.

 

[Watchmen]

Explain to me how a virgin got pregnant then, becuase it seems pretty impossible to me. Especially as back in those days they had no needles, IVF ETC

Anything is possible with God.

 

[Watchmen]

Nobody else's blood would have been good enough to cover all of mankinds sins. yes, he was born of a virgin and hence only has 24 chromosomes. Mother ,but no father.

God himself provided the other 24 chromosomes.

 

[lilithu]

God himself provided the other 24 chromosomes.

Are you suggesting that God had sex with Mary while she was betrothed but before she was married to Joseph?

 

[Watchmen]

Are you suggesting that God had sex with Mary while she was betrothed but before she was married to Joseph?

Can humans today create life without sex? Yes.

Don't you think God could do the same?

 

[S-word]

No - the things outlined in the gospels could not have been done had he been a natural child of Joseph and mary. God was his literal father and it was because of this fact that he could suffer the sins of the world. Such an experience would have destroyed a natural child.

Why? The miracles that were performed through Jesus weren’t his, but the miracles of our father who dwells within us, the words he spoke weren’t his, but the words of our Father who dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary within his temporary tent which is the body of mankind, for the kingdom of God is currently within you mankind, where he dwells until his new glorious Temple is completed, of which Jesus was chosen as the cornerstone, the first of many brothers, who are joint heirs to the throne of Godhead within the creation.

1st Timothy 1: 1, From Paul an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of God our saviour and Christ Jesus our hope.

Too many people erroneously believe that it was actually the lifeblood of the man Jesus which pays the penalty for the sins of mankind.

The biological parents of Jesus are recorded in the Bible, and are Like the parents of Isaac who was a prototype of Jesus, having been offered up as a sacrifice by his father on the very mountain upon which Jesus was crucified, and like Jesus was born of God’s promise according to the workings of the Holy spirit.

As Abraham and Sarah were both sired by the one father to different mothers, Mary and the Joseph who was the biological father of Jesus, were both sired By Heli the Levite.

Joseph the son of Heli and biological father of Jesus is descended through Nathan the Levite who married the daughter of King David, and was the son of Bathsheba and Uriah the Hittite who married into the tribe of Levi.

Bathsheba is the daughter of Ammiel the son of Obed-Edom, who is a descendant of Moses through his second wife Jephunneh the daughter of Hobab, the second father-in-law of Moses who married the mother of Caleb when Caleb was about 40 years old.

Joseph the son of Heli and half brother to Mary, is not to be confused with Joseph the son of Jacob who had no sexual relationship with Mary until after she had given birth to the first of her three biological sons, who were Jesus the son of her half brother Joseph the Levite, then young Joseph of whom we know so little and who is the son of Mary's first legitimate husband, Joseph of the tribe of Judah, and last of all, James the younger of the three, who is the son of Alphaeus who is also called Cleophas who was married to Mary at the time of the crucifixion.

Joseph the step father of Jesus is the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah and descended through Solomon the half brother to Nathan the son of Uriah the Hittite who married into the tribe of Levi.

Acts 3: 13, Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who gave his name to Moses as “I Am Who I Am,” has given divine glory to his servant Jesus. Acts 17: 31, “For “Who I Am” has fixed a day in which he will rule the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.”

 

[S-word]

Well, the way I see it, if Jesus had been the natural child of Mary and Joseph, He would have been the son of Joseph, not the son of God. He may have been able to do miracles, but they wouldn't really have been His miracles because He wouldn't have been divine. As God's own Son, He was divine. He could do what He did through His own power. And as to why Mary was a virgin, I suppose I'd have to say that when she conceived, she was betrothed to Joseph. She would not have been worthy to marry Joseph had she not been a virgin.

Jesus was a natural child of Mary and Joseph, not the Joseph who was the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah who never knew Mary sexually until she had given birth to the first of her sons, but her half brother Joseph the son of Heli the father of Mary, see Luke 3: 23.

In his life on earth, before being taken up to the throne of Godhead as the first fruits, the first of many brothers who are gathered as joint heirs to He, who was given divine glory by being chosen as the cornerstone to the new Temple of God which will replace his old temporary tent which is currently the body of mankind the most high in the eternal evolving creation, for the kingdom of God is within you. But soon you will see the glorious Temple of Light in which he will dwell among, instead of within, mankind.

In his life on earth Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death. Because he was a humble and devoted person, God heard him, and even though he was an Israelite and therefore A Son of God, he still had to learn through suffering to become obedient and to do and say only that which he was commanded, in order that our indwelling father through his obedient servant Jesus, might reveal himself to the world and reveal the great sacrifice that God our saviour (See 1st Timothy 1: 1.) is to make for us.

When he was finally made perfect by his total obedience, in that he would do, nor speak one word on his own authority, except that which he was commanded to do and say, he then became the source to our saviour God who rose the man Jesus from death and is able to raise we also, and the source to the eternal salvation that God our saviour offers.

It was then that our saviour declared him to be high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, not that Jesus took upon himself the honour of high priest, instead, after he had become perfect and as he rose from the baptismal waters, and was filled with the spirit of God which had descended upon him in the form of a dove, the voice from Heaven was heard to say “Thou art my beloved in whom I am well pleased, today I have become your Father. See the more ancient authorities of Luke 3: 22.

Even after he, who was born of the flesh as all are born, and who was then born of God’s spirit, he never performed one miracle by his own power as you have stated, for he, himself confessed that the miracles worked through him, were the divine acts of our Father God, nor did he, the earthly image of our heavenly Father, speak one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded.

No child has ever been born of woman without male sperm having been introduced into her uterus or into the massive dormant egg of the female body: and the word or concept of ‘Virgin' was not introduced into the Bible until it was translated into Latin by the body who followed the false teaching of the Anti-Christ as reveal by John, those deceivers who went out through the entire earth preaching a different Jesus than the one preached by the apostles, and refusing to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being.

 

[Comicaze247]

Can humans today create life without sex? Yes.

Don't you think God could do the same?

He still impregnated somebody else's wife.

And since we're all his children, he impregnated his own daughter on top of that.

 

[Copernicus]

Theoretically speaking, why was a “virgin birth” necessary for the supposed Jesus?
He could have been a natural child of Joseph and Mary and still done the same things as outlined in the gospels, there is simply no reason a virgin birth was necessary.

But miraculous virgin births of this sort were very common myths surrounding god-men in antiquity. Emperor Augustus himself was said to have been produced by a virgin birth. Jesus would not have been as impressive if he didn't fit people's expectations for a divine human. By the fourth century, when Christianity was being prepped for a state religion in the Roman Empire, it would not have been appropriate to have a Roman religion wherein the central figure was not divine, whereas the emperor himself was.

 

[Free4all]

God himself provided the other 24 chromosomes.

I think just 1, a "Y" chromosome so he would be male.
23 from Mary, Females can't contribute the "Y" chromosome.
If he has 46 Chromosomes then my Salvation is ALL a LIE....that would mean he has a human father.

 

[Watchmen]

I think just 1, a "Y" chromosome so he would be male.
23 from Mary, Females can't contribute the "Y" chromosome.
If he has 46 Chromosomes then my Salvation is ALL a LIE....that would mean he has a human father.

Not if God has physical attributes.

 

[Watchmen]

He still impregnated somebody else's wife.

And since we're all his children, he impregnated his own daughter on top of that.

That suggests the use of semen and sperm. I'm sure the creator of all is quite capable of accomplishing what he did without such.

 

[blackout]

It was necessary in cutting off any ideas that other people could be "Christ material" as well.

I mean ... were YOU born of a virgin? I think not. :no:

 

[LuisDantas]

Far as I have read, Isaiah 7:14 is the only place outside the New Testament that supposedly claims that a Virgin would conceive. And as already noted, that claim is arguable at best, due to the word used ("almah" as opposed to "betulah").

 

[Katzpur]

Jesus was a natural child of Mary and Joseph, not the Joseph who was the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah who never knew Mary sexually until she had given birth to the first of her sons, but her half brother Joseph the son of Heli the father of Mary, see Luke 3: 23.

That's nice. I disagree. I believe He was the Son of God.

 

[Katzpur]

If he has 46 Chromosomes then my Salvation is ALL a LIE....that would mean he has a human father.

Just a quick question... How many chromosomes do you suspect Jesus had? If Jesus had 46 chromosomes, His father would have been the same species as He was. Not "human" because humans are mortal, but humanlike. Immortal, perfect.

 

[lunamoth]

I think the main point of the virgin birth is that it was a miracle and the conception could not have taken place without God's action. Similar to Sarah conceiving in her old age.

Since it was written into the synoptic Gospels it was part of Christian tradition long before the fourth century.