Why was it unlawful?

[monti]

The Jews say it was unlawful for them to put any man to death.But is this true?

“Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law”.
The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death”, John 18:31.KJV.

 

[Breathe]

I heard that it's because they weren't allowed to execute anyone as they were under Roman law. Or something.
I dunno?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

i believe it was the Roman's who were the legal authority of the land at that time. While the jews had a mock government under the roman legal system, it was not legal for the jews to condemn a man to death under that system. Their powers and authority were prescriptive just like a state or county government is today.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

LOL, we posted at the same second!

 

[Breathe]

LOL, we posted at the same second!

Eerie.

 

[monti]

i believe it was the Roman's who were the legal authority of the land at that time. While the jews had a mock government under the roman legal system, it was not legal for the jews to condemn a man to death under that system.

We then have to wonder then what it was that was meant when Pilate said;

“Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law”.

Hadn’t Jesus committed the biggest crime in all Jewry when they accused him of blasphemy? Although, when one reads these gospel truth’s it seems that they couldn't quite make up their minds what it was that Jesus was in fact guilty off?

And this was in Jesus’ time was it not?>

“Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”? John 8:1-11KJV.

“He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death”.Mathew 15:4.KJV

So we have at least two instances where the Jews could dish out the death sentence according to those two passages above.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

We then have to wonder then what it was that was meant when Pilate said;

Hadn’t Jesus committed the biggest crime in all Jewry when they accused him of blasphemy? Although, when one reads these gospel truth’s it seems that they couldn't quite make up their minds what it was that Jesus was in fact guilty off?

And this was in Jesus’ time was it not?>




So we have at least two instances where the Jews could dish out the death sentence according to those two passages above.

Politics! Passing the buck! Neither the Jewish authority nor Pilate wanted the responsibility of killing Jesus. As far as throwing rocks, that was neither authority. It was mob justice.

 

[monti]

Politics! Passing the buck! Neither the Jewish authority nor Pilate wanted the responsibility of killing Jesus.

That is nearer the truth for me, but when we read the words Pilate said at the 'hearing'.

"I find no fault in this man and neither did Herod".
It seems it was more one sided,on the face of it.

As far as throwing rocks, that was neither authority. It was mob justice.

Maybe, but the fact is that the sentence for adultery was stoning to death.And according to the "mob" she had indeed committed adultery.And Jesus must have believed the mob" because he didn't even ask of her guilt but instead he told her to "go and sin no more".

 

[sinzzer]

The Jews say it was unlawful for them to put any man to death.But is this true?

“Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law”.
The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death”, John 18:31.KJV.

So what you are saying?
The Jews lies because the bible say something else?

If the Jews wanted Jesus death, he would be stoned to death.
Not hanged on the cross.
That is a Roman sentence, judge by the Romans laws.
This is even a Roman story.
Talking about the Jews in this story is ecatly what they wanted, find someone to blame for his death and let others believe it.
And beside that the Romans dont let anyone tell them what to do.
This story is fake and dont even come near the reality of history.
The jews has nothing to do with his death, unless he died because he got stoned.
But he diddent, he died on the cross by the Romans.
Because of this fraud nonsense story millions of jews had died,prosecuted and in jailed for nothing.
Only because some people dont want to think alittle bit further then something what stand in a book.
And you dont need to be a jew to see that, just look at the facts.
History keep repeating itself because people make the same mistakes over and over again.
Just like this topic tread, you can believe what stand in the bible or look for the facts and find out if that is the true.
If you wil search for the facts, then you will see that the jews can only stoned Jesus to death by the Jewis laws.
The jews dont need the Romans to punish someone by his laws, and the Romans dont need the Jews to punish by Romans laws.
That would not make sense, but the story of the bible is ecatly that.
it doesent make sense, no logic or facts are in it.
Its just a distraction to blame others and to hide the truth.

 

[monti]

So what you are saying?

Don't you mean 'what am I asking?'

The Jews lies because the bible say something else?

do you mean the Jews LIED?

If the Jews wanted Jesus death, he would be stoned to death.

but they also said it was unlawful for them to do so.

Not hanged on the cross.
That is a Roman sentence, judge by the Romans laws.

I believe that to be correct. what is your point.

Talking about the Jews in this story is ecatly what they wanted, find someone to blame for his death and let others believe it.

well look at this and you may see my confusion>

This is what it is said happened>

Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! What do you think?”They answered and said, “He is deserving of death.”Then they spat in His face and beat Him; and others struck Him with the palms of their hands, saying, “Prophesy to us, Christ! Who is the one who struck You?” Matthew 26:62-68. NKJV

But pilate had this to say>

“You have brought this Man to me, as one who misleads the people. And indeed, having examined Him in your presence, I have found no fault in this Man concerning those things of which you accuse Him no, neither did Herod, for I sent you back to him; and indeed nothing deserving of death has been done by Him. I will therefore chastise Him and release Him” Luke 23:13-16.NKJV

This story is fake and dont even come near the reality of history.

I have to agree, in part at least. The whole christian story (as it has come down to us today) is wobbly from the so called immaculate conception right up to the so called resurrection.

The jews has nothing to do with his death, unless he died because he got stoned.

I believe it was the Jewish hierarchy that wanted Jesus dead and for their own selfish reasons, and not the jewish people as a nation, they didn't even know who Jesus was.

But he diddent, he died on the cross by the Romans.
Because of this fraud nonsense story millions of jews had died,prosecuted and in jailed for nothing.

This has nothing to do with this particular thread. It is a thread with a question, could or could they not issue and carry out the death sentence? You have answered that and I agree with you when you say they could. So why didn't they?

Only because some people dont want to think alittle bit further then something what stand in a book.

And you dont need to be a jew to see that,

I agree.

just look at the facts.

Are there any facts at all in the new testament? can you tell me what you believe are facts?

If you wil search for the facts, then you will see that the jews can only stoned Jesus to death by the Jewis laws.

yes I think I have agreed that with you a few times now.

the story of the bible is ecatly that.
it doesent make sense, no logic or facts are in it.

I am not sure about that. There is something going on under the surface of those scriptures that need teasing out.

Its just a distraction to blame others and to hide the truth.

Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?John 18:38

 

[Shiranui117]

As has already been said, the Jews didn't have legal authority to execute someone. That privilege was reserved for the Romans, by the Romans.

The Pharisees and Sadducees didn't just want Jesus dead. They wanted Him to die the most disgraceful death possible, so as to prove that He wasn't the Messiah and head off whatever rebellion they thought Jesus might try and pull--that's one of the big reasons Pilate eventually caved. The Sanhedrin feared that if Jesus kept going, the hundreds of thousands of Jews in Jerusalem for the Passover would rise up, rebel, get the tar beaten out of them, and then the Romans would destroy the Temple as punishment. In order to keep the Temple out of harm's way, the Sanhedrin was willing to resort to drastic measures.

Even after Pilate found out that Jesus didn't have revolution in mind, Jesus was still a figure surrounded with too much controversy. To stop the controversy, and to stop a possible rebellion by the Jews--because having to explain to Caesar just why he had to put down another rebellion would have been awkward and could have resulted in losing his job or his life--Pilate decided to act on the advice (actually a threat) of the Sanhedrin and execute Christ.

 

[CMike]

The Jews say it was unlawful for them to put any man to death.But is this true?

“Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law”.
The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death”, John 18:31.KJV.

What christiniaty says about Judaism has virtually nothing to do with actual Judaism.

 

[monti]

As has already been said, the Jews didn't have legal authority to execute someone. That privilege was reserved for the Romans, by the Romans.

And as I have pointed out, there are two occasions where the death sentence was it seems justified and was going to be carried out until one one occasion jesus stepped in and stopped it "mob rule" or not it was clearly stated that punishment for adulterers was death by stoning and Jesus himself states that he who does not honour thy mother or father shall "die of death". So it was possible for them to carry out this penalty.

“He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death”.Mathew 15:4.KJV

The Pharisees and Sadducees didn't just want Jesus dead. They wanted Him to die the most disgraceful death possible, so as to prove that He wasn't the Messiah and head off whatever rebellion they thought Jesus might try and pull--that's one of the big reasons Pilate eventually caved.

I agree in part.

To stop the controversy, and to stop a possible rebellion by the Jews--because having to explain to Caesar just why he had to put down another rebellion would have been awkward and could have resulted in losing his job or his life--Pilate decided to act on the advice (actually a threat) of the Sanhedrin and execute Christ.

I agree, but the question remains that the jewish priests said they were not allowed to carry out the death sentence when they could have.
So why is this even written in the bible? read this slowly>

Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! What do you think?” They answered and said, “He is deserving of death.”

So these priests have an accusation of blasphemy and found Jesus guilty (the highest crime against their god by all accounts). Pilate wouldn't have cared less about blasphemy, he and the Romans had their own living God ceasar back home in Rome. And neither Pilate nor Herod could find fault in him.
Is this why when Pilate refused to do anything and left it in the hands of the Jewish priests they seem to have forgotten all about blasphemy and suddenly came up with >

“He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place”. Luke 23:4-5. KJV.

The bible verse above seems to agree with what you say. And it is closer to the 'truth' as we are ever going to get concerning the trial of Jesus, in my opinion.

 

[CMike]

So what you are saying?
The Jews lies because the bible say something else?

If the Jews wanted Jesus death, he would be stoned to death.
Not hanged on the cross.
That is a Roman sentence, judge by the Romans laws.
This is even a Roman story.
Talking about the Jews in this story is ecatly what they wanted, find someone to blame for his death and let others believe it.
And beside that the Romans dont let anyone tell them what to do.
This story is fake and dont even come near the reality of history.
The jews has nothing to do with his death, unless he died because he got stoned.
But he diddent, he died on the cross by the Romans.
Because of this fraud nonsense story millions of jews had died,prosecuted and in jailed for nothing.
Only because some people dont want to think alittle bit further then something what stand in a book.
And you dont need to be a jew to see that, just look at the facts.
History keep repeating itself because people make the same mistakes over and over again.
Just like this topic tread, you can believe what stand in the bible or look for the facts and find out if that is the true.
If you wil search for the facts, then you will see that the jews can only stoned Jesus to death by the Jewis laws.
The jews dont need the Romans to punish someone by his laws, and the Romans dont need the Jews to punish by Romans laws.
That would not make sense, but the story of the bible is ecatly that.
it doesent make sense, no logic or facts are in it.
Its just a distraction to blame others and to hide the truth.

Excellent post.

The Jews weren't buying what they were selling so they have to keep trying to defame the Jews.

The Romans were brutal toward the Jews and didn't seek Jewish advice on what to do.

 

[monti]

What christiniaty says about Judaism has virtually nothing to do with actual Judaism.

I can agree with that.

 

[sinzzer]

Don't you mean 'what am I asking?'

Sorry for late reaction but yes i did mean this, i apoligies also for forcing you to read my bad english.
I talk better english then i write english.

do you mean the Jews LIED?

Yes

but they also said it was unlawful for them to do so.

That is what the bible said.

I believe that to be correct. what is your point.

My point is the Romans killed Jesus because he broke Roman laws.

well look at this and you may see my confusion>
This is what it is said happened>
But pilate had this to say>

You're confusion is that you take the words of the bible and compare them with the facts of history.
The outcome are not the same.

I have to agree, in part at least. The whole christian story (as it has come down to us today) is wobbly from the so called immaculate conception right up to the so called resurrection.

Well the bible lost his source after changing the jewish story of genesis by putting the "sin of man" in the story.
Then obvious the story of Jesus is fake to, because he came to earth to save mankind from the sin of man.

I believe it was the Jewish hierarchy that wanted Jesus dead and for their own selfish reasons, and not the jewish people as a nation, they didn't even know who Jesus was.

You assume they dont know who Jesus was, but the truth might be that they know jesus as someone else.
And historical facts shows that Jesus was not as the bible teach the people.
The facts show that the story and personality of Jesus was made up by the Romans.
The Concilie van Nicea they argued over the nature of Jesus, in 325 after Jesus.
And that leaded up to bundle up the books for the bible.
The concilies what came after this went even further.
There are no historical facts that the jews wanted Jesus death, it was normal in those days to walk around and share your believe.
Jerusalem was a huge center of spirtuality, this means if someone like Jesus would walk around then he would be like the others.
There is no prove that the jews Prosecuted people for there believe, there are stories but you cant compare them with the actions of the Romans.

This has nothing to do with this particular thread. It is a thread with a question, could or could they not issue and carry out the death sentence? You have answered that and I agree with you when you say they could. So why didn't they?

Just saying the effects of this fraud.
They didn't because they did not wanted Jesus death.
Beside the bible there is no source that said the Jews wanted Jesus death.
In fact the Jews have a spiritual teaching what can be preach trew kabalah.
So the words in the bible is a contradiction with the reality.
And whats even more stupid, they generalize by saying "the jews".
The ironie of this concept, by blaming the Jews they proven there own fraud.
So they didden't kill him because there was no reason to kil him.
Jesus was grown up as a Jewish believer, woh might had understand knowledge what others diddent understood.
He could then had teach the people around him what he know, if he did preach violence, hate, rebellion against the Romans then we had a motive that someone would wanted him death.
But now they want to teach us that for no bad reason at all a minority of people wants a holy man death???

Its more like the Romans wanted Jesus death because he had teach people to free them self from spiritual blindness, what leads to fisical labor to the elite.
And the elites are the Romans in that time, the people needs to be dump and live in ignorance as a slave or working man or soldier.
They dont want a smart guy walking around making people smart.
And yes i assume this story in some way, because i look at facts of history.
Always some elite crushed people who did not do what they wanted, Jesus probaly had the same problem.
The problem is still around.

Are there any facts at all in the new testament? can you tell me what you believe are facts?

What i ment was, all the facts.

The Romans prosecuted and almost destroyd the Jews after the fall of Jerusalem, fact. This lead to mass migration to eastern europe,Asia and Russia.

The Romans destroyd many civilizations and made fun with them, fact.
The Jews were just one of them who stood against the ROmans and had to paid a big price for it.

The Romans destroyd the temple of jerusalem in 77, fact.

It is a fact that the bible is a bundle of books, thats why its called the bible.
It means library in greek.

This means these books were picked out, another fact.

Nobody have the right to claim that some books or a concept is holy to them, it can only be holy for yourself.
The Romans forced this to the people, by destroying other religions and to forbid other concepts. fact.

And the OT should been a copy of the Thorah, otherwise it has no source.
The truth is , some stories are different.
This means the Romans changed the story to what they want, thats a fact.
This would lead to the concept of the Jews ended with the OT and reborn with the NT.
This is a pretty smart and sick way to end a religion, only Romans could do that.

The story of Paul and the 4 gospels do not have any source to backup there concept.
Every background source comes from the Romans.
There is no source of the Cristianity concept as what the NT teach us,it does not exists and thats another fact.

While on other hand, there are stories over Jesus from that time what said a different story then the bible, but the Romans had forbidden these books.
The gnostic story and concept was surpressed and forbidden, the deadsea scrols, nag hammadi scrolls and many other scriptures what was found in history had proven that the gnostic story of Jesus excist in that time.
Is also a fact.

So what am trying to said is, the facts of our complete history.
Not just the story of the bible, if we wan to find the truth then we must look at every source there is.
And then use your own mind and logic to see what is the truth or not.
Try to walk on water, cure the sick,raise the death, change water to wine and give the poor water and fish, see if it works.
It is impossible, but try to reach spiritual peace by learning the gnostic concept and see if that works.
So for me everything this together is as easy as 1+1=2 and not 1+1= 5 , as what they want us to believe.

I am not sure about that. There is something going on under the surface of those scriptures that need teasing out.

Just put al the scriptures on the table.
Then look who wrote them.
Then look when they wrote them.
Then look what they said ecatly.
Then look in your reality if those words talk the truth, like those excamples i made above.
The truth are the words of our reality, someone can put it on paper and then others can read it.
but it is our reality what can prove if these words are the truth or not, its not other way around, thats a illusion.

Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?John 18:38

When i saw this the first thing i thought was,where is the answer of Jesus?
After he asked this to Jesus, he turned to the crowd???
Where is the answer of Jesus of the truth?
This means or Pilate did not wanted to listen to the answer of Jesus, or the Romans removed the answer of Jesus out of the bible.
So the facts are, Pilate did not listen to Jesus and use a murderer to show the stupidness of the Jewish crowd.
And thats the only goal of this story, make groups and let others take the blame for bad things and let others be there slave to work for them.
Unfortanly nothing has changed in our reality.