Why Was Jesus Necessary?

[sun rise]

Don't see this as making any difference. According to the story Jesus (regardless of his nature) was sent to earth to abolish the sins of mankind. WHY? Why didn't god/Christ simply snap its fingers?

.

Why does God not do what you believe a God must do to be God? There is no end to "why". Such as "why does God as man endure such terrible suffering?"

 

[lukethethird]

Why does God not do what you believe a God must do to be God? There is no end to "why". Such as "why does God as man endure such terrible suffering?"

Tell me about it. It's tough being a Christian, the constant, never ending persecution.

 

[Skwim]

OK, I will try to make sense, the Savior was Prophesied, first in the Garden, then his revelation was given to Abraham, thus the Shadow of future event's - Isaac's sacrifice [ the son being the lamb]. At Mount Sinai God declared that He would raise up a Prophet like Himself [God] and then at the same time states that He would raise up a Prophet like Moses, both from the decedent's of Israel, from their countrymen! After the giving of the Commandment's at Mount Sinai, the people broke the Covenant, which was sealed by the sprinkling of blood! another form of a blood contract!
Now we have two event's that need repair, Satan gain's the Earth which was under Adam's charge!
The people break the Covenant at Mount Sinai, which incur's the death penalty. God wanted to smoke all the people at that time, but Moses plea's for their life.
So we have the Son of God and a descendent of Abraham, in One Person, Created in the womb of a Jewish woman of the lineage of David, and also a part of God! To hold to these binding Contract's, Covenant's!!!
Who Else, that Imho is why!

First of all, I'm curious as to where in Genesis the savior is prophesied. A chapter and verse will do. Secondly, you still have not answered my "why" question,Why Was Jesus Necessary? as opposed to god accomplishing the same result with a snap of his fingers. Here you have only addressed the "what happened?" issue, which I'm pretty familiar with. Of course, if you don't know or can't figure out a plausible reason, fine, but for now I'm good with the what happened part.

.

 

[Skwim]

Why does God not do what you believe a God must do to be God? There is no end to "why". Such as "why does God as man endure such terrible suffering?"

I've never said "god must do" except when it logically follows from some crazy claim made by a Christian.

All I'm asking for is a simple explanation as to why god went to the trouble of impregnating Mary, whose offspring, Jesus, took 30 years or whatever to mature, just to be tortured and executed, rather than forgiving all mankind of its sins with a snap of his fingers. Now if you're stumped and can't answer the question, I quite understand. No doubt your theology never prepared you for the "why."

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[bitehoney]

The Scriptures clarify that Yahoshua was equal to God The Father - But took on the MORPH / form of a servant - A man.

He was MORPHED / MADE in the FORM / MORPH of the likeness / same - ness of sinful flesh / man.

However, when Yahoshua ascended up to the Father He said that He will literally be sitting " IN " the throne of the Father. - He is the FACE Of The Father and is given the RIGHT OF THE THRONE - and THE RIGHT OF POWER..

Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.

The Bible clarifies that Yahoshua is the expression, the Image the expressed IMAGE of the Fathers Confidence and His Face. And that by the faith that the shedding of God's own blood - the Gentiles may believe and by faith in Him - they can be grafted into the family of God.

God has throughout all of the time in history since the beginning - also called the " GENTILES " to serve Him and to obey His law and ordinances.

Gentiles were never excluded as a group from salvation and denied the opportunity to live righteous lives in honor, respect, and obedience to God and His laws. We know that there were Gentiles in various places throughout the Old Testament who were Godly and just characters. Such as various gentile kings and even gentiles who assisted the Jews and spoke of living for God and doing the right thing.
The Egyptians were given full opportunity to obey and know God.

Balaam was believed to be a gentile prophet but He eventually turned against the god of Israel
Caleb also in Num 32:12 Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite had wholly completely followed the LORD. The great hero of Judah was a Kenizzite, one of the Canaanite tribes (Gen 15:19)
Rahab (Joshua 2): The Canaanite prostitute
Also here in Jos 9:7 And the men of Israel said unto the Hivites, Peradventure ye dwell among us; and how shall we make a league with you?

Jos 8 And they said unto Joshua, We are thy servants. And Joshua said unto them, Who are ye? and from whence come ye?
Jos9 And they said unto him, From a very far country thy servants are come because of the name of the LORD thy God: for we have heard the fame of him, and all that he did in Egypt,

Also Othniel (Judg 3:9): Othniel was Caleb’s brother and also a Canaanite - - Jdg 3:9 And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer to the children of Israel, who delivered them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother.
Jael (Judges 4-5): The killer of Sisera was a Kenite, a tribe of Canaanites (Gen 15:19)
Ruth the Moabite: was in the genealogy of Jesus - Ruth the Moabite - who served God

A gentile named - Obed - of - Edom - (2 Samuel 6): The Ark of the Covenant was kept safe and stored on His own property for a period of time. The Gentile man named Naaman in - 2 Kings 5 = The Aramean commander went to Elisha for healing

ALSO - The Gentile People of Nineveh in Jonah 3........ The gentile people of Nineveh believed in God at the preaching of Jonah.

Not many Gentiles were mentioned and detailed in discription and recorded as serving and believing in God, however, the option was there and there were gentiles who did serve God in the Old Testament. Also, there were many Gentiles around other various parts of the world who were Godly people - though the Bible does not record their location.

The Gentiles had full opportunity to serve God and to obey Him - However, The Hebrew people were chosen by God with the obligation, task, duty, and responsibility of obeying and preserving His word and living clean, holy and Godly lives. Noah was not a Hebrew / Jew and He preached to everyone around Him. The Bible describes Him as a preacher. We see in the Old Testament that God is giving Gentiles a chance to live for Him and to do right.

 

[Skwim]

The Scriptures clarify that Yahoshua was equal to God The Father - But took on the MORPH / form of a servant - A man.

He was MORPHED / MADE in the FORM / MORPH of the likeness / same - ness of sinful flesh / man.

However, when Yahoshua ascended up to the Father He said that He will literally be sitting " IN " the throne of the Father. - He is the FACE Of The Father and is given the RIGHT OF THE THRONE - and THE RIGHT OF POWER..

Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.

The Bible clarifies that Yahoshua is the expression, the Image the expressed IMAGE of the Fathers Confidence and His Face. And that by the faith that the shedding of God's own blood - the Gentiles may believe and by faith in Him - they can be grafted into the family of God.

God has throughout all of the time in history since the beginning - also called the " GENTILES " to serve Him and to obey His law and ordinances.

Gentiles were never excluded as a group from salvation and denied the opportunity to live righteous lives in honor, respect, and obedience to God and His laws. We know that there were Gentiles in various places throughout the Old Testament who were Godly and just characters. Such as various gentile kings and even gentiles who assisted the Jews and spoke of living for God and doing the right thing.
The Egyptians were given full opportunity to obey and know God.

Balaam was believed to be a gentile prophet but He eventually turned against the god of Israel
Caleb also in Num 32:12 Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite had wholly completely followed the LORD. The great hero of Judah was a Kenizzite, one of the Canaanite tribes (Gen 15:19)
Rahab (Joshua 2): The Canaanite prostitute
Also here in Jos 9:7 And the men of Israel said unto the Hivites, Peradventure ye dwell among us; and how shall we make a league with you?

Jos 8 And they said unto Joshua, We are thy servants. And Joshua said unto them, Who are ye? and from whence come ye?
Jos9 And they said unto him, From a very far country thy servants are come because of the name of the LORD thy God: for we have heard the fame of him, and all that he did in Egypt,

Also Othniel (Judg 3:9): Othniel was Caleb’s brother and also a Canaanite - - Jdg 3:9 And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer to the children of Israel, who delivered them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother.
Jael (Judges 4-5): The killer of Sisera was a Kenite, a tribe of Canaanites (Gen 15:19)
Ruth the Moabite: was in the genealogy of Jesus - Ruth the Moabite - who served God

A gentile named - Obed - of - Edom - (2 Samuel 6): The Ark of the Covenant was kept safe and stored on His own property for a period of time. The Gentile man named Naaman in - 2 Kings 5 = The Aramean commander went to Elisha for healing

ALSO - The Gentile People of Nineveh in Jonah 3........ The gentile people of Nineveh believed in God at the preaching of Jonah.

Not many Gentiles were mentioned and detailed in discription and recorded as serving and believing in God, however, the option was there and there were gentiles who did serve God in the Old Testament. Also, there were many Gentiles around other various parts of the world who were Godly people - though the Bible does not record their location.

The Gentiles had full opportunity to serve God and to obey Him - However, The Hebrew people were chosen by God with the obligation, task, duty, and responsibility of obeying and preserving His word and living clean, holy and Godly lives. Noah was not a Hebrew / Jew and He preached to everyone around Him. The Bible describes Him as a preacher. We see in the Old Testament that God is giving Gentiles a chance to live for Him and to do right.

Welcome to RF. We need new people.

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[bitehoney]

Thank You. I really love this forum. The messages here are so encouraging in today's world of so many snares, downfalls, and also so much misinformation is spread concerning the message of Gods word.
God bless You.

 

[leapfrog7]

First of all, I'm curious as to where in Genesis the savior is prophesied. A chapter and verse will do. Secondly, you still have not answered my "why" question,Why Was Jesus Necessary? as opposed to god accomplishing the same result with a snap of his fingers. Here you have only addressed the "what happened?" issue, which I'm pretty familiar with. Of course, if you don't know or can't figure out a plausible reason, fine, but for now I'm good with the what happened part.

.

Genesis 3:15
As for Why! Well this question can be asked over and over, So It would Be that God structured a Plan from the beginning, this all knowing God knew the outcome of mankind, before He made the Plan! SO Jesus was a player in God's Plan. Like a stage Play, everyone had their part! If I could only understand one of God's thought's, who could contain the thought's or reason's of God?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Genesis 3:15
As for Why! Well this question can be asked over and over, So It would Be that God structured a Plan from the beginning, this all knowing God knew the outcome of mankind, before He made the Plan! SO Jesus was a player in God's Plan. Like a stage Play, everyone had their part! If I could only understand one of God's thought's, who could contain the thought's or reason's of God?

Truthfully? Your comment only makes the whole thing much much worse.

IF you truly believe your god created everything from scratch, and exactly as planned?

Then?

He's a deliberate monster: In that he created humans deliberately so they could fail! And worse! He knew it before he created them!

But wait-- your god punishes people for being exactly as he created them to be!

That's horrible!

Not to be outdone, he then deliberately creates torture-porn, sacrificing himself to appease himself for the rules he himself created in the first place...!

 

[nPeace]

In the new testament we have a god who wanted to forgive all mankind of its sins. Fine, but then why didn't he just forgive them? Why was it necessary to have a human sacrifice? To have his son tortured and executed In order for the sins of all mankind to be absolved?

Some say god wanted each individual to prove themselves worthy of such forgiveness. Okay, then why didn't he make the playing field level, where each and every person on earth had an equal chance? Why were only some apprised of god's requirement?---many, many never having got or getting the message. And not everyone is mentally capable of grasping the truth of god's test, yet they, along with the ignorant, have been left out of god's forgiveness. Others, such as myself, god has simply failed to convince; and whose fault is that; a puny mortal mind besting the best efforts of god? AND, as an omniscient being, god would be well aware of all these imminent failures. He knew that persons X, Y, and Z would never be on the receiving end of his forgiveness, but instead end up in hell or wherever. So, why even allow such poor unfortunate souls be born? Truthfully, as the story is laid out, god comes off as quite the heartless monster

So, nope, the notion of proving oneself worthy just doesn't wash, at least not under the auspices of an all-loving and benevolent god, which puts us right back at square one. Why did god even bother with Jesus?


Ideas?


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Questions about Jesus’ death

• Why did Jesus have to suffer and die to redeem humans? Why didn’t God just cancel the death sentence?
  
  God’s law states that “the wages sin pays is death.” (Romans 6:23) Rather than hide this law from Adam, God told him that the penalty for disobedience would be death. (Genesis 3:3) When Adam sinned, God, “who cannot lie,” kept his word. (Titus 1:2) Adam passed on to his descendants not only sin but also the wages of sin—death.
  
  Although sinful humans deserve the penalty of death, God extended to them “the riches of his undeserved kindness.” (Ephesians 1:7) His provision to redeem mankind—sending Jesus as a perfect sacrifice—was both profoundly just and supremely merciful.

Why Did Jesus Die?

 

[Kenny]

You've given an very good and articulate explanation of the Christian position. I do not wish to discourage you from being a Christian. However, may I point out that all through the Tanakh, God forgave people. A broken heart and contrite spirit is the only sacrifice God really wants.

True, a contrite heart God wants, but He also had a High priest go into the Holy of Holies once a year with the sacrifice of animals.

 

[Deeje]

Truthfully? Your comment only makes the whole thing much much worse.

IF you truly believe your god created everything from scratch, and exactly as planned?

Then?

He's a deliberate monster: In that he created humans deliberately so they could fail! And worse! He knew it before he created them!

But wait-- your god punishes people for being exactly as he created them to be!

That's horrible!

Not to be outdone, he then deliberately creates torture-porn, sacrificing himself to appease himself for the rules he himself created in the first place...!

If this is what you think God did then no wonder you are 'cheesed off' at him...I would be too.

But your evaluation is based on gross misinformation. Ignorance is a terrible teacher. And devilish propaganda works on an angry heart.

 

[sun rise]

All I'm asking for is a simple explanation as to why god went to the trouble of impregnating Mary, whose offspring, Jesus, took 30 years or whatever to mature, just to be tortured and executed, rather than forgiving all mankind of its sins with a snap of his fingers. Now if you're stumped and can't answer the question, I quite understand. No doubt your theology never prepared you for the "why."

There is no answer inside Christian theology as far as I know. There is an answer in Eastern religion but it's not a simplistic one. And it's not one that can be reduced to a few sentences. But here's just a few which I think are too general to convey the depth of complexity and interlocking nature of the ideas. But, for what it's worth:

It starts with God in the "beyond beyond" having a "whim" out of which the universe sprang. The Avatar is the first soul to have been created after illusion itself. The Avatar (Christ) comes again and again to true up creation leading to it's ultimate purpose conscious realization of its own God-hood (Sahaj samadhi) through experiencing all the opposites of the world and finally realizing the One truth behind the apparent opposites.

In each Avataric age, when God takes birth as a human, he does not mess with the game he himself created by acting like a magician. Jesus' miracles were for a particular purpose and far from the general rule if one considers all the other manifestation of the Avatar known in the East.

The Avatar/Christ takes on the suffering of the world in order to true up spiritual development and help humanity to the next level. To wave it away would be to undo the very "game" he created in the first place.

So if you want to ask "why this particular game?" the best answer is "it was a whim"

 

[pearl]

Yes, all very true, until a new covenant came to light.

The covenant with Abraham was never revoked. God keeps his promises.

 

[Skwim]

Genesis 3:15

Genesis 3:15 (ESV)
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.”​

Or, as it reads in the Easy-to-Read Version

Genesis 3:15 (ERV)
I will make you and the woman enemies to each other. Your children and her children will be enemies. You will bite her child’s foot, but he will crush your head.”
​

Okay, maybe my mind has gone into neutral, but I don't see anything here where the savior is prophesied. Care to point it out?

As for Why! Well this question can be asked over and over,

Only until it's addressed, and that's all I'm waiting for: One answer that address the question. The "why." Not the "How" or the "what."

So It would Be that God structured a Plan from the beginning, this all knowing God knew the outcome of mankind, before He made the Plan! SO Jesus was a player in God's Plan. Like a stage Play, everyone had their part! If I could only understand one of God's thought's, who could contain the thought's or reason's of God?

Okay, Okay, you don't know the answer. Probably would have helped if you had said that at the outset.

Questions about Jesus’ death

• Why did Jesus have to suffer and die to redeem humans? Why didn’t God just cancel the death sentence?
  
  God’s law states that “the wages sin pays is death.” (Romans 6:23) Rather than hide this law from Adam, God told him that the penalty for disobedience would be death. (Genesis 3:3) When Adam sinned, God, “who cannot lie,” kept his word. (Titus 1:2) Adam passed on to his descendants not only sin but also the wages of sin—death.
  
  Although sinful humans deserve the penalty of death, God extended to them “the riches of his undeserved kindness.” (Ephesians 1:7) His provision to redeem mankind—sending Jesus as a perfect sacrifice—was both profoundly just and supremely merciful.

So what? This still isn't answering the question of why god bothered with the Jesus scheme rather than snapping his fingers.

.

 

[nPeace]

Genesis 3:15 (ESV)
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.”​

Or, as it reads in the Easy-to-Read Version

Genesis 3:15 (ERV)
I will make you and the woman enemies to each other. Your children and her children will be enemies. You will bite her child’s foot, but he will crush your head.”
​

Okay, maybe my mind has gone into neutral, but I don't see anything here where the savior is prophesied. Care to point it out?



Only until it's addressed, and that's all I'm waiting for: One answer that address the question. The "why." Not the "How" or the "what."


Okay, Okay, you don't know the answer. Probably would have helped if you had said that at the outset.




So what? This still isn't answering the question of why god bothered with the Jesus scheme and all rather than snapping his fingers.

.

It does.
God faithfully kept to his word, and made a provision to deliver those affected by Adam's actions. He therefore demonstrated his superlative justice and mercy, and that he is not a liar, as we humans are.

 

[Skwim]

There is no answer inside Christian theology as far as I know.

There is an answer in Eastern religion but it's not a simplistic one. And it's not one that can be reduced to a few sentences. But here's just a few which I think are too general to convey the depth of complexity and interlocking nature of the ideas. But, for what it's worth:

It starts with God in the "beyond beyond" having a "whim" out of which the universe sprang. The Avatar is the first soul to have been created after illusion itself. The Avatar (Christ) comes again and again to true up creation leading to it's ultimate purpose conscious realization of its own God-hood (Sahaj samadhi) through experiencing all the opposites of the world and finally realizing the One truth behind the apparent opposites.

In each Avataric age, when God takes birth as a human, he does not mess with the game he himself created by acting like a magician. Jesus' miracles were for a particular purpose and far from the general rule if one considers all the other manifestation of the Avatar known in the East.

The Avatar/Christ takes on the suffering of the world in order to true up spiritual development and help humanity to the next level. To wave it away would be to undo the very "game" he created in the first place.

So if you want to ask "why this particular game?" the best answer is "it was a whim"

 

[nPeace]

Why use the Bible to ask a question, and accept an answer outside the Bible, rather than an answer within the Bible?

 

[Skwim]

Why use the Bible to ask a question, and accept an answer outside the Bible, rather than an answer within the Bible?

Okay. What's the answer within the Bible?

.

 

[InChrist]

The scriptures say nothing about an individual proving themselves to be worthy of forgiveness. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.( Eph. 2:8-9)
On the contrary, it is God's grace and mercy which forgives through Christ. Jesus had to die for the sins of the world because God is Love and Justice. He cannot simply snap His fingers and forgive those who are not sorry, nor want forgiveness. That would not be just...The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) Christ died to pay this penalty for all who are repentant and desire His gift of pardon... but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 6:23). That is Love.