Why will our lives be better if there was no Religion.

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I would rather die worshipping God who loves me, than live worshipping Satan who hates me.

Have you considered life without worship? Why worship?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

In some ways, I think we would be worse off without some form of religious belief. Even though it causes conflicts it also does a lot of good. It unites people and it supports a lot of good work that is motivated by that religious belief. Religions have been behind many of the movements to help people throughout history. It is said to be the opium of the people. I believe now that some societies are rejecting religion and God they are beginning to fall into chaos and the social structure is beginning to suffer.

Religion unites people? Only against others.

We don't need religion to know right from wrong or to want to help others.

Religions have been behind many of the movements that harm people.

America is still a majority Christian country. They are not a help. They performed incompetently at the polls late last year.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I too would like to know how one feels the world would get better without religion.

Look at the data:

[1] Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies - A First Look http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.pdf

Gregory S. Paul, Baltimore, Maryland

Abstract. Large-scale surveys show dramatic declines in religiosity in favor of secularization in the developed democracies. Popular acceptance of evolutionary science correlates negatively with levels of religiosity, and the United States is the only prosperous nation where the majority absolutely believes in a creator and evolutionary science is unpopular. Abundant data is available on rates of societal dysfunction and health in the first world. Cross-national comparisons of highly differing rates of religiosity and societal conditions form a mass epidemiological experiment that can be used to test whether high rates of belief in and worship of a creator are necessary for high levels of social health. Data correlations show that in almost all regards the highly secular democracies consistently enjoy low rates of societal dysfunction, while pro-religious and antievolution America performs poorly.

[2] Atheism, Secularity, and Well-Being: How the Findings of Social Science Counter Negative Stereotypes and Assumptions http://pitweb.pitzer.edu/academics/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2014/12/FAC-Zuckerman-Sociology-Compass.pdf

Phil Zuckerman, Pitzer College, Claremont, California

Abstract. What do we currently know about atheists and secular people? In what ways are atheism and secularity correlated with positive societal outcomes? This article offers a thorough presentation and discussion of the latest social scientific research concerning the identities, values, and behaviors of people who don't believe in God or are non-religious, and addresses the ways in which atheism and secularity are positively correlated with societal well-being.

[1] "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies" http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.pdf

[2] Atheism, Secularity, and Well-Being: How the Findings of Social Science Counter Negative Stereotypes and Assumptions http://pitweb.pitzer.edu/academics/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2014/12/FAC-Zuckerman-Sociology-Compass.pdf

[3] "Religion fosters bad behavior"
God would be an atheist: Why can't we all be Japanese?

[4] "Better off without Him"
http://www.monbiot.com/2005/10/11/better-off-without-him/#more-954

[5] "Religious States the Fattest"
Religious States the Fattest | Atheist Revolution

[6] "Secular Societies Fare Better Than Religious Societies" Secular Societies Fare Better Than Religious Societies

[7] "Are Devoutly Religious Congregations More Racist? " Are Devoutly Religious Congregations More Racist? - Science and Religion Today

[8] "Think religion makes society less violent? Think again" Think religion makes society less violent? Think again.

[9] "The Negative Association between Religiousness and Children’s Altruism across the World" http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(15)01167-7

[10] "Religion Doesn't Make People More Moral, Study Finds" http://www.livescience.com/47799-morality-religion-political-beliefs.html

[11] "Donald Trump and the Transformation of White Evangelicals" http://time.com/4577752/donald-trump-transformation-white-evangelicals/ :

"White evangelical Christians set a new high water mark in their support of Republican candidates by giving Donald Trump 81% of their votes, according to the 2016 exit polls

"Back in 2011, consistent with the “values voter” brand’s insistence on the importance of personal character, only 30% of white evangelical Protestants agreed with this statement. But this year, 72% of white evangelicals now say they believe a candidate can build a kind of moral wall between his private and public life. In a shocking reversal, white evangelicals have gone from being the least likely to the most likely group to agree that a candidate’s personal immorality has no bearing on his performance in public office. Today, in fact, they are more likely than Americans who claim no religious affiliation at all to say such a moral bifurcation is possible."

Does any of that suggest to you how we might be better off without religion?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Some people see Big Brother in our future, others see the United Federation of Planets.

Bill Maher made a similar comment Friday night. Did you see it? "I always think about that book, 'Everything I Needed To Know, I Learned In Kindergarten.' He violates every rule. Don't lie. Don't accuse people of things that they're not guilty of. Don't gloat. Pay your taxes. Serve your country. Don't be a racist. Don't insult, like you said, the handicapped people and other people who are not as lucky to be as great-looking as you are, Donald. I worry that if half the country wants this guy to be president we need the U.N. to step in or the United Federation of Planets, or something."

 

[Thumper]

I agree, and that's really evident since Trump became president. I guess my point was/is that the religious tend to always win. Even Roe v. Wade - an already legally established civil right, is still being fought by religious people. And they just may end up winning with the republican figures that are governing the states right now. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see it repealed. And even though the Treaty of Tripoli states that the US was in no way founded on the Christian religion, they certainly do hijack it. Every chance they get, and unfortunately, they are still the majority.

"Religion is always in the control business, and that’s something people don’t really understand. It’s in a guilt-producing control business. ... And so they create this fiery place which has quite literally scared the Hell out of a lot of people, throughout Christian history. And it’s part of a control tactic....The church doesn’t like for people to grow up, because you can’t control grown-ups. That’s why we talk about being born again. When you’re born again, you’re still a child. People don’t need to be born again. They need to grow up. They need to accept their responsibility for themselves and the world." ~ Bishop John Shelby Spong

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Someone, I don't remember who, once said that there would always be good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things, but for good people to do evil - that takes religion. I concur.

That was Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Weinberg

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

--
Mankind was created with an innate desire to worship..

I guess that I'm not human then.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You seem to be under the delusion that if religion no longer existed, then everything would be a paradise?? I hate to burst your bubble, but man is corrupt as he has always been. He is still greedy, selfish, and ambitious at the expense of others, he still lies. He is still capable of murder and stealing. Man is capable of cursing and bitterness and selfish grandeur. Mankind is foolish if he thinks he can control his own destiny. He will stuff it up somehow. All this is called ‘sin’ and man is unable to deal with his own sin. That is why man needs a perfect Christ to save him from his own sins.
Man has been trying to govern his own life over the millennia. There were wars thousands of years ago and there are still wars today, because man hasn’t changed. That is because man is imperfectly moral and can’t help himself. Man thinks he can be his own master, but he fails to realize this is not man’s world, it belongs to God. Man needs God, otherwise man can make no sense of this world. Man is so corrupt, that the courts are swamped with new laws because the old laws were not good enough and on it goes.
There would be more wars without religion, because without God, man is nothing and will be counted as cannon fodder, because life would be without meaning. Godless people like Stalin, Hitler and Mau are examples of selfish ambition and who cared nothing for the people and was more than willing to recklessly sacrifice them on the battle field. (100 million dead).
Without God, who is to say what is right and what is wrong, and what is good and evil. How do you know? In a purely secular world there would only be opinions. What’s to say my opinion is better than yours? The problem is that if there is no God, then there is no objective morality. Then all morality is just someone’s opinion. Then you have the problem of Moral Relativism that is the morality is not absolute but is only relative to the individual or society. Without God saying what is right and what is wrong, that only leads to moral confusion. Go to God for your values, because He gets it right the first time. Certainty for eternity.

The evidence says that we are better off without religions - at least the Abrahamic ones.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

That's pretty much how they started. There was no interest in a socialist transition or even rule by the proletariat. These nations we call Communist pretty much started as iron fist dictatorships.

In the Marxist sense, there is no state or government. It, along with class and money, are abolished. This is why many political scientists, historians, and philosophers do not label such places as Marxist, and often not even Communist, because classism was rampant, state control was absolute, and poverty was commonplace.
And do keep in mind, Marxism and Communism are not synonymous or interchangeable, and their are many variations on both ideologies.

Such states today have little power against the corporation, they allow for the rights and liberties of citizens to be put to a popular vote, and without hefty amounts of Socialism there is no guarantee or promise for the poor and those who fall on hard times. The others are necessary, but many, many things are too important to be decided on by those without knowledge and experience of the subject at hand, and it should never be tolerated that we allow citizens to vote on whether or not a minority group is granted equality or damned to endure legally protected discrimination. Matters that effect us all, such as the environment, should not be decided by those who do not understand that there exists a very direct correlation between the health of the environment and our own health. Only educators should make decisions about education, and only those who are trained and schooled in health and medicine should be making decisions about treatment plans and medications, not some group wanting to push treatments that are dangerous and damaging in the long run.

All enlightened Americans living today are probably having issues with the idea of democracy in the modern age. Too many people can't think well, a requirement for a democracy to flourish. What I see is a nation of intellectual and moral road kill. Organized, politicized religion facilitated that, but not alone.

 

[Thumper]

All enlightened Americans living today are probably having issues with the idea of democracy in the modern age. Too many people can't think well, a requirement for a democracy to flourish. What I see is a nation of intellectual and moral road kill. Organized, politicized religion facilitated that, but not alone.

"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ~ Thomas Jefferson

Oh, and of course ...

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'." ~ Isaac Asimov

 

[Ingledsva]

On the RF you constantly see the religious count down. More and more people leaving religion. Religion isn't necessary. Religion causes problems for everyone.

What I need to know is why is a world without religion going to be better.

Will Russia the US and China suddenly get along.
Will Pakistan and Israel suddenly become friends
Will North Korea become a paradise.
Will the US no longer have Women, Immigrant, Black, Gay rights problems.

Please give me you best thoughts for why a world without religion is going to be better. I am extremely curious.

I'll give you 2 problems
The RF will no longer exist.
You won't be able to use religion as your fall back for why everything is bad.

I don't think the world would be better off without "most" religions.

Many people seem to need a meditative calming influence in their lives.

I think we would be better off without the ones that want to conquer the world, and force everyone under their religious ideas, and laws.

Or the ones that teach that ALL that don't believe as they do, are going to places such as hell, to be tortured forever.

Or the ones that lay on a guilt and fear trip (hell) so people are afraid to think for themselves, and perhaps choose a more loving, accepting, religion, or practice.

And lastly, the ones that don't allow questioning, and logical, learned, discussion. What do they have to fear?

*

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Really? Exactly what "ignorance" and "pseudo-science" do I have "faith" in, as a Catholic?

Catholicism, as a group/organization (I am very aware individual variation can and does happen), is still strongly anti-birth control, they have been staunchly anti-LBGT rights and dignity, and there is the belief of a cracker and wine turning into literal flesh and blood. And albeit rarely and often very reluctantly, they still do exercises. They do accept evolution which is a huge step above others, but the infallibility of a human being is a major step backwards.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Ok, you don't see humans as superior?

Not in the religious sense - as if we are not animals as well, or they don't have souls but we do, or God created them for us to have dominion over and exploit, or we were created in God's image but not the beasts.

I don't like those kinds of ideas and I reject them.

But we are the most evolved species.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." ~ Thomas Jefferson

Oh, and of course ...

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'." ~ Isaac Asimov

It's a crime and a shame what's happened there.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Catholicism, as a group/organization (I am very aware individual variation can and does happen), is still strongly anti-birth control, they have been staunchly anti-LBGT rights and dignity,

Actually, the Vatican isn't anti-birth control as such, it's against artificial birth control such as hormonal birth control and condoms. I personally don't agree with the Vatican's stance on condoms, as it's simply unrealistic and the official documents prohibiting the pill and condom usage were widely disliked in the Church in the first place, by many of the clergy and the theologians. Most Catholics simply ignore them.

As for LGBT rights, it's homosexual sexual behavior that's seen as sinful, but opinions on it vary throughout the clergy and the laity. You'll find more compassionate clergy and congregations and more conservative ones. That largely depends on culture and location. It will probably end up changing to being accepted in the future as awareness and acceptance grows, just like the Vatican changed its stance on Jews and other non-Christians. Catholics in the US tend to be more pro-gay rights than other religious groups. As for trans people, that's more complicated because of some theological issues, but that's slowly starting to change as the matter becomes more visible and people are more educated about it. For example: Funeral for Murdered Trans Woman Held at 'Pope's Church'

You need to keep in mind that the Catholic Church is a global and ancient institution. The West can't just force its social beliefs on other cultures. That could create schism. The non-Western parts of the Church have to agree to it, as well.

and there is the belief of a cracker and wine turning into literal flesh and blood.

That's a theological and mystical matter, not a scientific one. You either believe it or you don't.

And albeit rarely and often very reluctantly, they still do exercises.

You mean exorcism? Even before they grant permission to do an exorcism, the person in question must be examined by a mental health professional.

the infallibility of a human being is a major step backwards.

That's a theological matter, not a scientific one. The Pope is only viewed as infallible while speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals and this has only happened very rarely, such as with the Dogma of the Assumption of Mary. Again, if you're not a Catholic, it has nothing to do with you.

You're still ignoring the matter of your cognitive dissonance when it comes to your Marxism, while still hypocritically railing on about religion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But we are the most evolved species.

There's no such concept as "most evolved" in the natural sciences.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You're still ignoring the matter of your cognitive dissonance when it comes to your Marxism, while still hypocritically railing on about religion.

Marxism has evolved tremendously. Religion, on the other hand, has a long history of being notoriously stubborn in resisting change, even when proven wrong. It has nothing to do with Western culture in pointing out how dangerous, reckless, irresponsible, unethical, and immoral to crusade around a place like Africa insisting that condoms don't work, even to the point of spreading lies about them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Marxism has evolved tremendously. Religion, on the other hand, has a long history of being notoriously stubborn in resisting change, even when proven wrong. It has nothing to do with Western culture in pointing out how dangerous, reckless, irresponsible, unethical, and immoral to crusade around a place like Africa insisting that condoms don't work, even to the point of spreading lies about them.

So it only took around 100 million deaths for Marxism to "evolve tremendously"? Lmao. Okay. I give up.

 

[Christ's Prophet]

Every notice that it is the most religious that seem to have such a horrible view of humanity and life in general? Why anyone would accept such a worldview, let alone teach it to their children is beyond me.
Can you name one ( 1 ) moral precept that can be shown to originate from religion, any religion? Just 1 foundational moral principle which would not exist without religion?

That is a silly question. In your country, America, the whole of the constitution is built on the moral principles of the Bible. The Ten Commandments are reflected in your law. Your founding fathers built your nation on the Bible. It is those moral principles that made your country great. On one of your coins does it not say ‘In God We Trust’? In my country, the original Law was constituted by the Bible. Granted, in this day and age, the principles of the Bible, as it is reflected in the law, are being degraded by imperfect pagan humanistic thinking, thus threatening the very fabric of society. Certainty for eternity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That is a silly question. In your country, America, the whole of the constitution is built on the moral principles of the Bible. The Ten Commandments are reflected in your law. Your founding fathers built your nation on the Bible. It is those moral principles that made your country great. On one of your coins does it not say ‘In God We Trust’? In my country, the original Law was constituted by the Bible. Granted, in this day and age, the principles of the Bible, as it is reflected in the law, are being degraded by imperfect pagan humanistic thinking, thus threatening the very fabric of society. Certainty for eternity.

No, the American government was not founded on the Bible and the "In God We Trust" stuff is a leftover from the Cold War of the '50s. The laws and original guiding ideology of America was secular republican democracy, like France. France and America are revolutionary sisters, which is why they gave us the Statue of Liberty and we gave them a twin of it in which is in Paris: Statue of Liberty, Pont de Grenelle