Why would anyone choose Satanism?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Me and at least one other Satanist of those who posted in this thread believe our deity to be beyond moral dualism, so it's not about our deity being less evil or whatever than the Abrahamic one.

Same here.

 

[Liu]

Same here.

Okay, at least 3 it's then.
Wasn't sure whether to count you as a Satanist.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Okay, at least 3 it's then.
Wasn't sure whether to count you as a Satanist.

Sure. I'm a Satanist, at least philosophically.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Why make up something new if what's already there fits well?

Because it makes things very confusing. Imagine having both a religion and a secular philosophical movement called "Christianity", the former believing in the existence of God, and the latter being formed of atheists that used the idea of the Abrahamic God to promote peace and solidarity among humans. Imagine having to constantly explain which of the two Christianities you're referring to every time you mentioned the term "Christianity".

 

[Liu]

Because it makes things very confusing. Imagine having both a religion and a secular philosophical movement called "Christianity", the former believing in the existence of God, and the latter being formed of atheists that used the idea of the Abrahamic God to promote peace and solidarity among humans. Imagine having to constantly explain which of the two Christianities you're referring to every time you mentioned the term "Christianity".

Lol, there already are. A lot of those who call themselves Christians here in Germany belong to the atheistic variety.

And among Hindus it's actually really common even in orthodoxy to have very different concepts of deity (from theism, over pantheism, to atheism).

But with Satanism (or the LHP in general), it's an inherent trait. It's a philosophy whose very purpose is to help one developing one's own worldview, so it's no wonder that we get manifold results, some theistic, some not.

 

[DavidFirth]

Satan is as much evil as he is good, he is actually beyond both. I love Satan, nothing could ever tear me away from that.



Okay, some of us do it in a silly way, but hey, sometimes that can be narm charm. For me I like to have a sense of humor about my Satanicness but it can be pretty ****** if executed correctly. There are a lot of narmy pagan practices anyway, I don't think Satanism is an exception that regard.

Not according to Job or Jesus.

 

[Kapalika]

Ok, I admit that I didn't think everything through when I started this topic. I had in mind the theistic satanists who followed the Satan from The Bible and believe in his existence, not all the other branches that the atheists created because they couldn't come up with any other being to develop a philosophical movement around besides The Bible's antagonist. In my opinion, atheistic satanism is just childish behavior. Sure, feel free to oppose religion if you really must, but you can do so without confusing everyone by taking a mystical being whose existence is considered real by religious people and building a secular current around it. If you wanted to symbolize rebellion, they could have centered their movement around Prometheus or Loki or some other being whose existence is not part of the beliefs of almost a quarter of the planet's population. Or they could have just made up their own being like the flying spaghetti monster.

Even if a theistic Satanist follows the "Satan" talked about in the Bible it doesn't mean they think that the Bible is a true account of those events.

Plus most theistic Satanists I've known don't particularly use the Bible very much if it at all, relying on other texts or even identifying Satan as something fairly different even if identified by that name in the Bible.

Also many of us use the symbolism of Prometheus and do see that parallel:

I am a Titan, personified and glorified inside your mythologies
to create and enlighten
In the theogony a challenger of greatness
comparable to Miltons version of Satan

...
I am a man among men and a God among Gods
I am the sin among sinners rising up against the odds
I am the cause and effect revolution is my name
call me Prometheus and the fire I now reclaim

...
What if god was an archetype a way to say that
to know darkness you must know light and
what if Lucifer was one in the same?
after all light bearer is the translation of his name
what if I told you that man was both
and he only lost hope when his will was broke
and he only lost grace when his knees hit ground
but when he got back up it was the truth that man found
and that proof was found in music ?

- Sicktanick's Prometheus

That guy used to be a Satanist in his younger days and when he started out writing music, last I checked he was a member of the O.T.O. and practicing Thelema, still on the Left Hand Path, as he was when writing that song.

Anyways, good music!

The Creator god, whether unconscious or malevolent, is a monster, plain and simple. Illness, suffering, sadness, self hatred, all come from this fiend, who apparently enjoys watching the chaos. Satan gave us our one and only way out, be or at least the only way to fight against God: free conscious will. This makes him the ultimate hero, the monster slayer, the gifter of Self. Satan cares about us as his own whereas to God we exist only to serve.

That relies on the pretense that illness, suffering, saddness, self hatred ect was created by God (as opposed to being, say emergent from evolution) AND that they are "bad".

Who are you to claim they are objectively bad as opposed to functions of nature? To the illness, the anti-bodies are "bad".

Your view sounds kind of gnostic, or at least like you are influenced by Christianity in your view.

And what if Satan created the Universe?

Because it makes things very confusing. Imagine having both a religion and a secular philosophical movement called "Christianity", the former believing in the existence of God, and the latter being formed of atheists that used the idea of the Abrahamic God to promote peace and solidarity among humans. Imagine having to constantly explain which of the two Christianities you're referring to every time you mentioned the term "Christianity".

It's not confusing to a Satanist because at the core although we might disagree with conclusions in terms of ethics, metaphysics and other things we usually have the same values, themes and premises, atheist or theist or something in between.

And many of us

 

[Kapalika]

Not according to Job or Jesus.

I've studied Job a lot including the Hebrew some. I've talked to Rabbis about this and other very learned Jewish people. My view isn't congruent with that but it is worth noting that in that Satan isn't evil, he's merely serving Yahweh as his tester and accuser.

Perhaps, in a way, he became the "devil" to Christians for their heresies, they saw him as evil as he would easily tempt them into sin? In testing their righteousness, faithfullness, and adherence to truth they failed so often that he was falsely seen as the source of this evil, when in fact all he did was reveal what was already inside of them?

I could see then why they would correlate it and see him as evil. But Satan is anything but in either my view or the Jewish view. To me, he is All. To Jews, he serves Yahweh.

 

[DavidFirth]

I've studied Job a lot including the Hebrew some. I've talked to Rabbis about this and other very learned Jewish people. My view isn't congruent with that but it is worth noting that in that Satan isn't evil, he's merely serving Yahweh as his tester and accuser.

Perhaps, in a way, he became the "devil" to Christians for their heresies, they saw him as evil as he would easily tempt them into sin? In testing their righteousness, faithfullness, and adherence to truth they failed so often that he was falsely seen as the source of this evil, when in fact all he did was reveal what was already inside of them?

I could see then why they would correlate it and see him as evil. But Satan is anything but in either my view or the Jewish view. To me, he is All. To Jews, he serves Yahweh.

In the end Satan and all those who follow him will get exactly what they deserve. Know this.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In the end Satan and all those who follow him will get exactly what they deserve. Know this.

Cute threat.

 

[Kapalika]

In the end Satan and all those who follow him will get exactly what they deserve. Know this.

A hearty meal at the end of the day and a "Good job, minions" from our master Satan?

Or is it gonna be like this?

God I love that show. I'd hate to work there, but it's still hilarious. edit: first clip is a little weak but the rest are pretty good)

 

[leibowde84]

Satanists would have done well to choose a better title for their faith. There is a good reason that Satan is perceived as a Christian figure: because he is. And he has been for the past 1,800 or so years. He's part of the Christian cultural milieu now. If they didn't want to be associated with Christianity/Abrahamic faith in general, they should have chosen a completely different label. It would have saved them a lot of trouble.

1. They aren't referring to any real being with the term "satanism". They are referring to a way of life based on the character in the Bible. It's just a homage to the character. From what I understand, things like indulgence, vitality, and revenge are encouraged, while things like abstinence and peacefulness are discouraged. Satan really means "opposition", so they are the opposition church to christianity.
2. They are atheistic in nature, not believing in any gods. So, they aren't worshiping Satan in any way.
3. I think it's a pretty clever name. And, we should all have thick enough skin to just let them do what they want as long as they are law-abiding, respectful citizens.

 

[leibowde84]

Ok, I admit that I didn't think everything through when I started this topic. I had in mind the theistic satanists who followed the Satan from The Bible and believe in his existence, not all the other branches that the atheists created because they couldn't come up with any other being to develop a philosophical movement around besides The Bible's antagonist. In my opinion, atheistic satanism is just childish behavior. Sure, feel free to oppose religion if you really must, but you can do so without confusing everyone by taking a mystical being whose existence is considered real by religious people and building a secular current around it. If you wanted to symbolize rebellion, they could have centered their movement around Prometheus or Loki or some other being whose existence is not part of the beliefs of almost a quarter of the planet's population. Or they could have just made up their own being like the flying spaghetti monster.

Why does it bother you so much? I think we should all respect their right to believe whatever they want. The name of a religion isn't hurting you at all. Just ignore it. I mean, think about how homosexuals feel about the Catholic Church. I'm sure they feel the same way about public expression of homophobic beliefs ... offended. They just have to deal with it.

 

[Liu]

1. They aren't referring to any real being with the term "satanism". They are referring to a way of life based on the character in the Bible. It's just a homage to the character. From what I understand, things like indulgence, vitality, and revenge are encouraged, while things like abstinence and peacefulness are discouraged. Satan really means "opposition", so they are the opposition church to christianity.
2. They are atheistic in nature, not believing in any gods. So, they aren't worshiping Satan in any way.
3. I think it's a pretty clever name. And, we should all have thick enough skin to just let them do what they want as long as they are law-abiding, respectful citizens.

Those first two points mainly apply to the Satanism of LaVey and his Church of Satan, and not necessarily to any of the other kinds of Satanism. Many have other views on morality and/or are theists (the latter of which was already pointed out a bunch of times in this thread). And even LaVey's writings can be considered deistic or pantheistic at points, and while his bible is written in a way that is meant to oppose certain Christian values (or rather certain hippy values of his time), it's not to be taken all literally - Satanism is not about overindulgence but about finding what's right for oneself - which might include abstinence out of physical, psychological or even spiritual reasons.

 

[1137]

Really? You're gonna let the species whose members kill each other because they disagree on issues about their religious beliefs and because they have different skin colors be in charge? It doesn't sound like such a good idea to me.

Killing each other for petty reasons is part of our nature. Now is Satan the one who creates nature, or God?

 

[McBell]

Now is Satan the one who creates nature, or God?

False dichotomy given it has not been shown to be "created".

 

[Grumpuss]

 

[Laika]

I don't understand why anyone would willingly choose to become a Satanist? We all know that The Bible clearly states that - spoiler alert - Satan will be defeated in the end and all his followers will be tortured and / or destroyed. Why would you willingly join the side that you already know will lose?

To put it in terms a Christian may understand:

Given that Christ was a martyr, should it really be a surprise that people are capable of following a path in the face of tremendous odds? The devil rebelled against god, and Christ rebelled against the Roman Empire- is there not a similarity as rebels in their willingness to attack what they perceive to be an illegitimate authority as a source of injustice? are there not just causes worth fighting for even if we lose? are not all causes in the end an expression of the self, and given that death is inevitable, are we not all lost causes?

If we love mankind, surely that means all mankind- including the sinners. Can we really separate the sinners from the sin? Is not the sin a part of the imperfections of man's soul and to love the man is to love the sin?

Was not the value of Jesus in his humanity rather than his divinity? Should we not realise our humanity rather than be led by false prophets and anti-Christs? Why should our humanity be condemned as "sinful" when it is our humanity that makes us good? Is our desire for pleasure wrong when we would wish to see others happy rather than suffer?

I sympathise with Atheistic Satanism as it helps clear out some of Christianity's more oppressive and de-humanising beliefs (which as a bisexual have serious implications for me mental health along with the internalised stigma of not being "normal" or being "sinful"). I can't say I have ever been a devout Christian although I was introduced to Christianity at primary school and did "believe" in an inarticulate way for a few years. there have also been moment when I felt sufficiently lost I would have wanted to just for wanting an easy answer. The level of hypocrisy involved and the destructiveness of its cultural influence as a rationalisation for earthly power does not endear Christianity to me (for all the pleasantness of its message of universal love).

I would think that Jesus would disown the Christian Church as a perversion of God's will- just another corrupt Roman empire crushing the souls of man in spiritual impoverishment. Would he not turn over the tables of the money lenders in a place of worship if he were alive today and object to turning a place of worship into a money-making machine? I don't think he would be a satanist in the literal sense, but after two thousand years of man-made re-invention of the Bible, its not as if he's going to swallow the corruption of the Christian faith into an instrument of human cruelty. Maybe I am a bit of a Gnostic in wanting to know the truth for myself from within me by my own spiritual compass and not have it handed down to me by an authority I do not trust. it is better to be a Christ than to be a shadow of a man merely as a follower.

There are certain aspects of Christianity that are extremely dangerous because of how they sacrifice man and life as the source of our values. In the end, that just results in pain and if Christianity means pain- I would not chose to be a Christian or to worship a god that wished me to be in pain. I'd contemplate it as a temporary thing but I get more sceptical of the idea of such sacrifice each time I think about it. This is not to say that all Christians are bad (or even that God is evil) but the limited nature of my experience put me firmly in opposition to Christianity (and of god assuming he/she exists) as a tyrannical faith in which suffering becomes- not a means to aspire to divinity or to humanity- but an ends in itself. Christianity is perverted (perhaps even from Christs own conception of his faith) into a form of spiritual poverty opposed to life and happiness. I'd chose the devil over god if that is the case because at least the devil understands humanity better.

 

[Desert Snake]

To put it in terms a Christian may understand:

Given that Christ was a martyr, should it really be a surprise that people are capable of following a path in the face of tremendous odds? The devil rebelled against god, and Christ rebelled against the Roman Empire- is there not a similarity as rebels in their willingness to attack what they perceive to be an illegitimate authority as a source of injustice? are there not just causes worth fighting for even if we lose? are not all causes in the end an expression of the self, and given that death is inevitable, are we not all lost causes?

If we love mankind, surely that means all mankind- including the sinners. Can we really separate the sinners from the sin? Is not the sin a part of the imperfections of man's soul and to love the man is to love the sin?

Was not the value of Jesus in his humanity rather than his divinity? Should we not realise our humanity rather than be led by false prophets and anti-Christs? Why should our humanity be condemned as "sinful" when it is our humanity that makes us good? Is our desire for pleasure wrong when we would wish to see others happy rather than suffer?

I sympathise with Atheistic Satanism as it helps clear out some of Christianity's more oppressive and de-humanising beliefs (which as a bisexual have serious implications for me mental health along with the internalised stigma of not being "normal" or being "sinful"). I can't say I have ever been a devout Christian although I was introduced to Christianity at primary school and did "believe" in an inarticulate way for a few years. there have also been moment when I felt sufficiently lost I would have wanted to just for wanting an easy answer. The level of hypocrisy involved and the destructiveness of its cultural influence as a rationalisation for earthly power does not endear Christianity to me (for all the pleasantness of its message of universal love).

I would think that Jesus would disown the Christian Church as a perversion of God's will- just another corrupt Roman empire crushing the souls of man in spiritual impoverishment. Would he not turn over the tables of the money lenders in a place of worship if he were alive today and object to turning a place of worship into a money-making machine? I don't think he would be a satanist in the literal sense, but after two thousand years of man-made re-invention of the Bible, its not as if he's going to swallow the corruption of the Christian faith into an instrument of human cruelty. Maybe I am a bit of a Gnostic in wanting to know the truth for myself from within me by my own spiritual compass and not have it handed down to me by an authority I do not trust. it is better to be a Christ than to be a shadow of a man merely as a follower.

There are certain aspects of Christianity that are extremely dangerous because of how they sacrifice man and life as the source of our values. In the end, that just results in pain and if Christianity means pain- I would not chose to be a Christian or to worship a god that wished me to be in pain. I'd contemplate it as a temporary thing but I get more sceptical of the idea of such sacrifice each time I think about it. This is not to say that all Christians are bad (or even that God is evil) but the limited nature of my experience put me firmly in opposition to Christianity (and of god assuming he/she exists) as a tyrannical faith in which suffering becomes- not a means to aspire to divinity or to humanity- but an ends in itself. Christianity is perverted (perhaps even from Christs own conception of his faith) into a form of spiritual poverty opposed to life and happiness. I'd chose the devil over god if that is the case because at least the devil understands humanity better.

This is nonsense