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Why would god require human sacrifice?

idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
In the bible god says not to in the OT but the founder is said to have been asked to sacrifice his first son Isaac. God said just kidding.

Then god finishes the task by sacrificing his own human son.

Why would such archaic barbaric means be necessary? Human sacrifice of a perfect innocent and blood is the real means. Is that some sort of satanic type worship or something with baby sacrifice, not to say satanists do that but sure makes sense to many christians.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
idav said:
In the bible god says not to in the OT but the founder is said to have been asked to sacrifice his first son Isaac. God said just kidding.

Then god finishes the task by sacrificing his own human son.

Why would such archaic barbaric means be necessary? Human sacrifice of a perfect innocent and blood is the real means. Is that some sort of satanic type worship or something with baby sacrifice, not to say satanists do that but sure makes sense to many christians.
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Yours is a reference to ancient primitive cultures, who thought offerings pleased a god.

What was good for them does not apply today.


It seems to me, your trying to make sense of mythology by injecting it into reality. It is often best left as theology and lessons in morality. In context.
 
Mycroft

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
idav said:
In the bible god says not to in the OT but the founder is said to have been asked to sacrifice his first son Isaac. God said just kidding.

Then god finishes the task by sacrificing his own human son.

Why would such archaic barbaric means be necessary? Human sacrifice of a perfect innocent and blood is the real means. Is that some sort of satanic type worship or something with baby sacrifice, not to say satanists do that but sure makes sense to many christians.
Click to expand...

Because god is made up by Men. I mean, specifically, human males. Moreover, he is made up by men of a certain culture in a certain time under certain conditions in which human sacrifice would not necessarily be considered an extraordinary thing. And so, as ever, we find god works entirely through these human means as a result of being a product of male imagination.

An actual superbeing, of course, would not require anyone to be sacrificed in order to render forgiveness. He would simply forgive.
 
Levite

Levite

Higher and Higher
outhouse said:
Does he follow human rules? or create them?
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Since He prohibited it, I would assume that means He didn't want it. It's one of the most pernicious evils the Tanach speaks of, almost always condemned in no uncertain terms, always depicted as a grievous wrong.
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Humans are being sacrificed, daily. If God commands wars, and an eye for an eye, these sacrifices will continue.
 
R

ruffen

Active Member
outhouse said:
Yours is a reference to ancient primitive cultures, who thought offerings pleased a god.

What was good for them does not apply today.


It seems to me, your trying to make sense of mythology by injecting it into reality. It is often best left as theology and lessons in morality. In context.
Click to expand...


According to millions of Christians, a human sacrifice is the very key to their belief and to the salvation of the world. I agree that it is still an ancient primitive culture, but people in 2014 do actually believe that such an offering (Jesus) pleased God in some way that it was necessary for saving the world from God's wrath.

What lesson in morality would this be?
 
CynthiaCypher

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
ruffen said:
According to millions of Christians, a human sacrifice is the very key to their belief and to the salvation of the world. I agree that it is still an ancient primitive culture, but people in 2014 do actually believe that such an offering (Jesus) pleased God in some way that it was necessary for saving the world from God's wrath.

What lesson in morality would this be?
Click to expand...

Not all Christian accept the Penal Substitution Atonement Theory. I know I don't and neither did the Early Christians and it wasn't widely accepted even after the Reformation. It is something that came popular during the "Great Awakening" and I am not buying it. I am sticking with the Moral Influence Atonement Theory were Christ's death was a martyrdom and his life, teachings and death empowers and influences us.
 
Levite

Levite

Higher and Higher
Mestemia said:
What was Jephthah's punishment? Judges 11:29-40
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That is there as a warning story, to show the horror of following through on unwise vows, of the sort that were made in our wildest and most lawless time.

As the Rabbis of the Talmud point out, the fact that the Tanach does not depict Yiftach (Jephthah) being punished does not mean that he was not punished (Midrash says he was), or at the very least does not mean that he did not deserve punishment.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Levite said:
That is there as a warning story, to show the horror of following through on unwise vows, of the sort that were made in our wildest and most lawless time.

As the Rabbis of the Talmud point out, the fact that the Tanach does not depict Yiftach (Jephthah) being punished does not mean that he was not punished (Midrash says he was), or at the very least does not mean that he did not deserve punishment.
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Kinda flies in the face of your "forbidden" claim though...
 
CynthiaCypher

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
saint_frankenstein said:
Exactly. The Catholic Church doesn't agree with it, either.

Catholic and Reformed Conceptions of the Atonement | Called to Communion
Catholic Atonement
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I don't understand how people can believe that every single Christian believes and behaves as the Protties do. Millions of us don't.

I like this quote from the second article:

"the Father is "one in Being with the Son", and He did not demand the cruel torture and death of the Son. Rather, WE are the ones who demanded the cruel torture and death of Jesus. "

That is the truth, we are the ones who made Jesus a martyr. Wasn't the first time we killed a peacemaker and not the last time either but this peacemaker was the Son of God.
 
Sees

Sees

Dragonslayer
I think of the Yahweh telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac story quite often and ponder the different ways people can interpret it. I think what it primarily comes down to nowadays is getting people to take a long, hard look at priorities and what we would sacrifice for others. Community, connection, compassion, cooperation being center focus for many traditions in various degrees. If all a symbolic hint to be willing to give up the whole world and life itself for your God then there is implications that your wants shift to your God's wants - which extends past your own self.

However, being a Heathen and all, I'm still firmly in the camp that sees the right answer to the Abraham-Isaac test being a "hell no" :D
 
Levite

Levite

Higher and Higher
Mestemia said:
Kinda flies in the face of your "forbidden" claim though...
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You might have noticed that the Tanach is full of stories of people doing things that are forbidden. Because people did them doesn't make them not forbidden, or make them things that God wants and approves of. It just makes them things that people did, which we should know about so that we can do better than they did.
 
CynthiaCypher

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Sees said:
I think of the Yahweh telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac story quite often and ponder the different ways people can interpret it. I think what it primarily comes down to nowadays is getting people to take a long, hard look at priorities and what we would sacrifice for others. Community, connection, compassion, cooperation being center focus for many traditions in various degrees. If all a symbolic hint to be willing to give up the whole world and life itself for your God then there is implications that your wants shift to your God's wants - which extends past your own self.

However, being a Heathen and all, I'm still firmly in the camp that sees the right answer to the Abraham-Isaac test being a "hell no" :D
Click to expand...

I view it as a practical joke Yahweh and Abraham were playing...on Isaac.
 
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