Why Would Noah's Flood Have Been the Best Way for God to Cleanse the Earth?

[David Davidovich]

I think that MAN has dominated MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury.
Pollution by MAN has affected the weather.
True, we don't have even heat earth wide but if something is Not profitable to the business man then he ignores the consequences that things can get worse. They often think 'Not in their lifetime', or the problems they create is the next generations problem to solve.​

I can't dispute any of that, however, you still didn't address what I said about how if God had destroyed wicked humankind with something other than a flood back in Noah's day, then that would have prevented the horrible weather that we often have on this planet. Because horrible weather didn't start with humans polluting the earth, or humans mistreating other humans.

 

[David Davidovich]

Violence, violence, violence ( <- see Genesis 6:11 )
How violent were the parents to their own babies ?​

I don't think that either one of us knows.

Violent parents could be abusive to their children including babies.
For all we know those violent parents could have been raping or molesting their own offspring.
If those babies who grew up became violent as their parents ..........
Those babies were Not born wicked but were turning out to be wicked or violent like the parents.
They were treating others as they were treated - with violence.
Without divine involvement, before long Noah and family would have been killed off by violent people.

Yes, could have, however, not even Jesus painted the picture as bad as you're painting it. Along with how end-time believers similarly paint our time as being the end-times as being worse than they really are:

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;​

Matthew 24:37-38 NIV - As it was in the days of Noah, so it - Bible Gateway

Because what you were describing sounded similar to a war zone. But according to what Jesus said, the situation of earth during Noah's days wasn't strife and danger everywhere that you looked.

And by the way, you never did answer my OP question. But instead, you skirted around it: Why would the flood have been the best and the most efficient way for God to have cleansed the earth of the saturated evil that existed at that time?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Water's the universal solvent?

Or the only one God uses to wash sins away - both literally and figuratively.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Sorry, but I don't know what you're talking about.

You don't know what baptism is?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Well if there’s a perfect God that made a perfect creation that went off the rails to a degree that God decided to flood the planet, something bad happened. And it indicates things aren’t perfect as claimed.

Where is it claimed that any of God's creations are "perfect"?

 

[Bree]

I was doing some research on another topic that I had been thinking about, however, I read this quote in one of the articles that I was reading:

Even after the Fall, it makes sense that these weather variations were minimally different. But with the global Flood that destroyed the earth and rearranged continents and so on, the extremes become pronounced — we now have ice caps and extremely high mountains that were pushed up from the Flood (Psalm 104:8). We now have deserts that have extreme heat and cold and little water.​

click here: State of the Water Vapor Canopy Model | Answers in Genesis

Therefore, after reading that, what I would like to ask those who believe in the Genesis account about the flood: Why would the flood have been the best and the most efficient way for God to have cleansed the earth of the saturated evil that existed at that time? Considering all the extreme changes and consequences that are supposed to have occurred as a result of the flood.

God often has used natural elements to execute justice on the earth. I dont know why a flood to wipe out all living things was used. But it is not always necessary for us to know every detail as to why something was done a certain way.

Perhaps its an opportunity for us to learn that God does not need to explain himself to us.

 

[Bree]

I mean that it had to be done in a way that looked natural to the people of that time.
If God suddenly appeard on earth doing things that was not according to the natural law, humans would no longer need a belief in God, they would know for certain. And would be unable to enlighten to the truth, by cultivation of their mind.

people back then were most certainly aware of Gods existence. The bible says the materialised angles were dwelling among them and their offspring were superhuman hybrids.

They had the garden of Eden being guarded by the 2 cherubs and the flaming sword... it wasnt as if they didn't have anything supernatural going on around them. Angels were materialsed and marrying women.

Perhaps the pre flood world is where our myths and legends come from... the gods being with women and producing offspring such as Hercules among others.

Sadly, mankind has lost belief in God because of the lack of miracles and supernatural experiences.

 

[wellwisher]

I was doing some research on another topic that I had been thinking about, however, I read this quote in one of the articles that I was reading:

Even after the Fall, it makes sense that these weather variations were minimally different. But with the global Flood that destroyed the earth and rearranged continents and so on, the extremes become pronounced — we now have ice caps and extremely high mountains that were pushed up from the Flood (Psalm 104:8). We now have deserts that have extreme heat and cold and little water.​

click here: State of the Water Vapor Canopy Model | Answers in Genesis

Therefore, after reading that, what I would like to ask those who believe in the Genesis account about the flood: Why would the flood have been the best and the most efficient way for God to have cleansed the earth of the saturated evil that existed at that time? Considering all the extreme changes and consequences that are supposed to have occurred as a result of the flood.

A Great Flood could also be a symbol of powerful unconscious processes that overwhelmed the early ego; flood of emotions. This would have been due to willful but unnatural human behavioral patterns, that caused repression of natural instincts. The repression caused a powerful unconscious backlash.

The human ego, which is very new in terms of evolution; 6-10K years old, had gotten very perverse and corrupt and was willfully working at odds with natural human instinct. Will and choice had become very unnatural; Sodom and Gomorrah. The very choice of that location to live; near a volcano, showed a lack of instinctive common sense. The natural animal would not settle there. It was a matter of time.

The flood was like an unconscious backlash, from the inner self, as the dams that had been created by willpower and choice were broken. This flood of repressed content was needed to help restore the ego and natural human instinct.

The animal symbolism of gathering one each, male and female of each species, was connected to the genetic memories of natural instincts, being gathered for both males and females. After this system restore and reboot, the advanced ancient empires start to appear, as the human ego finds a better balance with the inner self. Religions deal with the needs of the inner self and natural DNA base instinct.


As far as a possible natural science explanation for a world wide flood, there are two pieces of evidence discovered around 2005. The first was an ocean of water was discovered under the earth's crust in SE Asia. This ocean is in the upper mantle, below the crust, and is about the size of the Arctic Ocean.

If this ocean of mantle water ever breeched the crust, due to active plate movement, it would lead to a global catastrophic weather event. Picture a giant plume of high pressure steam, from the mantle ocean, bubbling up from the deep ocean floor, filling the atmosphere with steam and clouds. This bubbling up would cause massive tidal waves. The earth's atmosphere would also become cloud covered followed by massive amounts of water raining out, flooding the earth. Even ocean critters could become extinct from heat.

A second discovery at about the same time was a large scar at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean where the mantle was exposed. All the crust at the location was eroded away, all the way to the mantle. This suggests one such event, like above, where a large pocket of sub crustal water/steam breeched the crust, leading to catastrophic tidal waves and flooding much closer to Europe and Africa. The whole world would feel it.

These discoveries is part of what makes me doubt the modern mythology of human climate change. The earth can heat the surface with small mantle water breeches. Science tends to be ego-centric with atheism wanting to play god and have no other god before it. We are bring told to repent so they can fix it. The ego needs fixing, again. White guilt is a plagiarism of original sin; signs of the time.

 

[SkepticThinker]

They type of jealousy is Not the green-eyed monster type and No envy involved.

What type of jealousy is it then, the good kind? Do tell.

Who ever told you that in the Bible that babies as something wicked is: wrong.
However, parents are responsible for 'minor' children - 1 Corinthians 7:14
Those pre-flood parents had reached the point of No repenting.
Who knows what kind of abusive parents they were.
Those ' babies ' apparently were going to grow up to be ' violent ' just like the parents - see Genesis 6:11

Well, you kinda just did when you said those 'babies' (your quotes, not mine) are going to grow up to be wicked like their parents. Might as well kill 'em then, eh?
I'm not on board with that and it doesn't sound to me like anything a loving entity would do if said entity loved his creations. That's been my point all along.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Eyewitness account _______

What eyewitness account?

 

[Audie]

people back then were most certainly aware of Gods existence. The bible says the materialised angles were dwelling among them and their offspring were superhuman hybrids.

They had the garden of Eden being guarded by the 2 cherubs and the flaming sword... it wasnt as if they didn't have anything supernatural going on around them. Angels were materialsed and marrying women.

Perhaps the pre flood world is where our myths and legends come from... the gods being with women and producing offspring such as Hercules among others.

Sadly, mankind has lost belief in God because of the lack of miracles and supernatural experiences.

Mom was into classical music.
I was to play piano or violin.
No instrument other than those in a symphony
orchestra was even legitimate or real, " pop"
music, unworthy of mention.

That I describe in comparison to the common
Christian attitude that only belief in their god
is legitimate, and that bible- type stuff ended in
bible days. Only bible- miracles are real.

Is that your belief too?

No miracles in the last couple thousand years,
things like the sun stopping, ocean parting,
pillars of salt or fire, cities getting the fire n' brim stuff. Tower of babel, flood....

Well, that much is true, they sure are not happening now, and to all evidence
and reason, they never did happen.

Being a reason I dont believe anything in the religion.

Meanwhile, in other cultural traditions,
miracles are a daily thing, spirits speak,
etc and blah.
And lots of Christians are full of weeping statue
stories, miracle of the sun or Lourdes, etc n blah.

Id guess that the greatvmahority of people
are extremely " aware" of "god / suoernatural"
in their daily lives, hemmed in with restrictions
and superstitions all about.

I was in Philippines when there was an eclipse and everyone was making a commotion to stop
the lizard eating the moon.

If you' ve a clear line between superstition and
God- belief, between real events and fiction,
between "miracle" and natural event etc, it
would be good if you explained it.

Frankly, I find some of the practices and beliefs- theres an endless list n China- as practiced byt various relatives, to be ridiculous and tiresome.

What is sad about people drifting away from
the moldy past is not clear to me, at all.

 

[Audie]

What type of jealousy is it then, the good kind? Do tell.


Well, you kinda just did when you said those 'babies' (your quotes, not mine) are going to grow up to be wicked like their parents. Might as well kill 'em then, eh?
I'm not on board with that and it doesn't sound to me like anything a loving entity would do if said entity loved his creations. That's been my point all along.

" for i am a jealous God"

 

[metis]

I was doing some research on another topic that I had been thinking about, however, I read this quote in one of the articles that I was reading:

Even after the Fall, it makes sense that these weather variations were minimally different. But with the global Flood that destroyed the earth and rearranged continents and so on, the extremes become pronounced — we now have ice caps and extremely high mountains that were pushed up from the Flood (Psalm 104:8). We now have deserts that have extreme heat and cold and little water.​

click here: State of the Water Vapor Canopy Model | Answers in Genesis

Therefore, after reading that, what I would like to ask those who believe in the Genesis account about the flood: Why would the flood have been the best and the most efficient way for God to have cleansed the earth of the saturated evil that existed at that time? Considering all the extreme changes and consequences that are supposed to have occurred as a result of the flood.

IMO, it's allegorical as a rebuttal of the earlier and more widespread Babylonian narrative that was polytheistic. Now, whether the authors saw it this way in writing Genesis is impossible to tell.

 

[F1fan]

Where is it claimed that any of God's creations are "perfect"?

Well that would be a question for all the believers who insist this is true. Countless believers have claimed God is perfect, the Creation is perfect, A&E were perfect, etc. This illustrates part of the problem with Creationists and theists in general as they interpret Bible stories and add their own content and beliefs that are not part of the Bible.

 

[Audie]

A Great Flood could also be a symbol of powerful unconscious processes that overwhelmed the early ego; flood of emotions. This would have been due to willful but unnatural human behavioral patterns, that caused repression of natural instincts. The repression caused a powerful unconscious backlash.

The human ego, which is very new in terms of evolution; 6-10K years old, had gotten very perverse and corrupt and was willfully working at odds with natural human instinct. Will and choice had become very unnatural; Sodom and Gomorrah. The very choice of that location to live; near a volcano, showed a lack of instinctive common sense. The natural animal would not settle there. It was a matter of time.

The flood was like an unconscious backlash, from the inner self, as the dams that had been created by willpower and choice were broken. This flood of repressed content was needed to help restore the ego and natural human instinct.

The animal symbolism of gathering one each, male and female of each species, was connected to the genetic memories of natural instincts, being gathered for both males and females. After this system restore and reboot, the advanced ancient empires start to appear, as the human ego finds a better balance with the inner self. Religions deal with the needs of the inner self and natural DNA base instinct.


As far as a possible natural science explanation for a world wide flood, there are two pieces of evidence discovered around 2005. The first was an ocean of water was discovered under the earth's crust in SE Asia. This ocean is in the upper mantle, below the crust, and is about the size of the Arctic Ocean.

If this ocean of mantle water ever breeched the crust, due to active plate movement, it would lead to a global catastrophic weather event. Picture a giant plume of high pressure steam, from the mantle ocean, bubbling up from the deep ocean floor, filling the atmosphere with steam and clouds. This bubbling up would cause massive tidal waves. The earth's atmosphere would also become cloud covered followed by massive amounts of water raining out, flooding the earth. Even ocean critters could become extinct from heat.

A second discovery at about the same time was a large scar at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean where the mantle was exposed. All the crust at the location was eroded away, all the way to the mantle. This suggests one such event, like above, where a large pocket of sub crustal water/steam breeched the crust, leading to catastrophic tidal waves and flooding much closer to Europe and Africa. The whole world would feel it.

These discoveries is part of what makes me doubt the modern mythology of human climate change. The earth can heat the surface with small mantle water breeches. Science tends to be ego-centric with atheism wanting to play god and have no other god before it. We are bring told to repent so they can fix it. The ego needs fixing, again. White guilt is a plagiarism of original sin; signs of the time.

Those " discoveries" you describe and falsely
ascribe to science are total fantasy.
No such things exist.
Whoever made it up is a disgrace.

 

[Audie]

What eyewitness account?

I didnt get a answer either.

 

[F1fan]

I don't think that either one of us knows.

​

Yes, could have, however, not even Jesus painted the picture as bad as you're painting it. Along with how end-time believers similarly paint our time as being the end-times as being worse than they really are:

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;​

Matthew 24:37-38 NIV - As it was in the days of Noah, so it - Bible Gateway

Because what you were describing sounded similar to a war zone. But according to what Jesus said, the situation of earth during Noah's days wasn't strife and danger everywhere that you looked.

And by the way, you never did answer my OP question. But instead, you skirted around it: Why would the flood have been the best and the most efficient way for God to have cleansed the earth of the saturated evil that existed at that time?

If the Creator didn't want people and civilization to get out of control then it should have created beings that wouldn't behave that way. God could have easily created non-violent, cooperative people, no mental defects, and the result would be social stability. The way the Fall is describes suggests god just threw dice and let evolution do it's own thing, and without supervision and guidance. When things got out of hand God decided to wipe most of it out? And nothing was fixed. So why do we need a God at all?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If the Creator didn't want people and civilization to get out of control then it should have created beings that wouldn't behave that way. God could have easily created non-violent, cooperative people, no mental defects, and the result would be social stability. The way the Fall is describes suggests god just threw dice and let evolution do it's own thing, and without supervision and guidance. When things got out of hand God decided to wipe most of it out? And nothing was fixed. So why do we need a God at all?

You want a Bully God that wouldn't give you any choice in matters ?
The man Adam was 'formed or fashioned' from the dust of the ground - see Genesis 2:7 - Not by any evolution.
Righteous Noah and family survived so saving righteous people was the fix.
The permanent fix will come starting at Jesus' Glory Time of separation found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.

 

[Audie]

You want a Bully God that wouldn't give you any choice in matters ?
The man Adam was 'formed or fashioned' from the dust of the ground - see Genesis 2:7 - Not by any evolution.
Righteous Noah and family survived so saving righteous people was the fix.
The permanent fix will come starting at Jesus' Glory Time of separation found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.

We have all heard that 10,000 times.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If the Creator didn't want people and civilization to get out of control then it should have created beings that wouldn't behave that way. God could have easily created non-violent, cooperative people, no mental defects, and the result would be social stability. The way the Fall is describes suggests god just threw dice and let evolution do it's own thing, and without supervision and guidance. When things got out of hand God decided to wipe most of it out? And nothing was fixed. So why do we need a God at all?

The Christian God didn't just throw dice and let the chips fall where they may; he deliberately creates evil, disasters, and calamities (Isaiah 45:7). And Proverbs 16:4 says, "The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil."

According to the Bible, God killed a man and his wife for lying to Peter (Acts 5:5-10). He also ordered his 'chosen people' to do his dirty work when he told them to wipe the Amalekites off the face of the Earth; killing every single man, woman, child, infant, and all their animals (Deuteronomy 25:17; Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2-3). That's not to mention his huge temper tantrum that led him to commit global genocide. If the Bible is accurate, then the Christian God is nothing more than a sadistic psychopathic bloodthirsty genocidal maniac, who obviously takes pleasure in deliberately creating total pandemonium throughout the world, and then he sits back and watches his creation tear itself apart, and he does absolutely nothing to stop all the violence and human suffering.

As far as I'm concerned, that's not a loving, merciful God. In truth, that's a sadistic and psychopathic God, who cruelly manipulates his creation for his own personal pleasure. Humanity and everything else in his creation are nothing more than his playthings.

KJV, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Evil:
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked, 2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful, 3. Characterized by or indicating misfortune; ominous.

NIV, "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

Disaster:
1. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe, 2. A grave misfortune, and 3. A total failure.

ESV, "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things."

Calamity: 1. An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster, 2. Dire distress resulting from loss or tragedy, 3. Any great misfortune or cause of misery; in general, any event or disaster which produces extensive evils, as loss of crops, earthquakes, etc., but also applied to any misfortune which brings great distress on a person; misfortune; distress; adversity.