Why would prophets/religious beliefs be off-limits to criticism?!

[Faybull]

" "A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.""

 

[Marisa]

I don't understand why there are so many religious people these days complaining about blasphemy. While I wholeheartedly agree that people have a resposibility (not legal) to be civil, we should be able to speak our minds about historical figures without worrying about people taking it personally. A personal insult is not a subjective term. It is an insult directed at the individual being spoken to or about. While Muhammad would rightly be able to take criticism of his lifestyle personally, no one else can. Beliefs are personal, but criticisms of beliefs should not be taken personally. We all have the responsibility to have thick-skin in this world so that words don't initiate violence. Those that become violent over words should recieve 100% of the ridicule in these situations.

An opinion or perspective that cannot be criticized can never be found wanting, or proved false.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

This was the conduct of the propbets since Musa pbuh.
For if the apostate is allowed in his misguided ways(criticism, insults), the virus spreads and people become rebellious.


Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

This was the message passed from God to the prophets. But mankind forgets.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

Personaly i find it good law, to apply capital punishment for apostates that insults prophet pbuh. However this is only for the amiir/leader to decide. He can also choose to force the apostate into exile.
Why capital punishment is much preferable than exile?
Because what they do(insulting the prophet pbuh or islam)is more severe, much worse than a spy who reveals the secrets of the muslims and who shares info with the enemy.


For if such apostate is tolerated, the illness & rebellion spreads and corruption takes over the land.

Where did the "If one slay a human, it is as if they slayed whole humanity" go away? Capital punishment is not allowed for anyone than the Jugde, not a Caliph or Emir, but the Lord.

This was the conduct of the propbets since Musa pbuh.
For if the apostate is allowed in his misguided ways(criticism, insults), the virus spreads and people become rebellious.


Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9

Deuteronomy wasn't written by Moses, the book even predicts Moses own death. It's obvious it was written much later in order to please the violent Jews of the time.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

The blood of a Muslim who testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed lawfully, except in three cases: a married person who committed adultery, in Qisas (retaliation) for murder (life for life) and the apostate from Islam who abandons the Muslim Jama’ah (community)


May Allah Forgive me, i was wrong in this issue. The truth is after searching for it, that All kinds of apostasy is punishable by death, because it is greater crime than treason. This makes sense.
Amongst the scholars there is disagreement about the days which apostate gets to repent. As for apostate who insults the religion, there is no disagreement. Not only did he commit treason, he also showed his animosity openly.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Even though this question is mainly for Abrahamics and not Hindus since Hinduism has never said that people can be above criticism or unquestionable (Vedantins even used to call each other names during debates!), I'll just add my thoughts.

The problem for me happens when a Hindu who claims to be an Advaitin criticizes the greatest Advaitin of all time, Adi Shankara. I don't like when a person who claims to be a Vaishnava criticizes Ramanuja. So, at least people can stop pretending to be someone they are not and openly come out as anti-Vaishnavas or flat out atheists and then criticize stalwarts like Shankara or Ramanuja.

I was wrong. Apostasy itself is punishable by death. This is the islamic ruling on apostasy, agreed by four madhabs and shia madhab. What they dont agree about is the days which apostate gets to repent.


This is only within muslim country where the shariah is applied. It doesnt mean individuals can go around killing renegades.

May Allah guide us all to the correct understand of the religion according to the trustworthy scholars.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nothing should be off limits to criticism. No one's beliefs or opinions should be coddled. If they can't stand the refining fire of criticism, then they deserve to be discarded.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

The blood of a Muslim who testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed lawfully, except in three cases: a married person who committed adultery, in Qisas (retaliation) for murder (life for life) and the apostate from Islam who abandons the Muslim Jama’ah (community)


May Allah Forgive me, i was wrong in this issue. The truth is after searching for it, that All kinds of apostasy is punishable by death, because it is greater crime than treason. This makes sense.
Amongst the scholars there is disagreement about the days which apostate gets to repent. As for apostate who insults the religion, there is no disagreement. Not only did he commit treason, he also showed his animosity openly.

Are you a Wahhabi?

 

[Faybull]

The blood of a Muslim who testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed lawfully, except in three cases: a married person who committed adultery, in Qisas (retaliation) for murder (life for life) and the apostate from Islam who abandons the Muslim Jama’ah (community)


May Allah Forgive me, i was wrong in this issue. The truth is after searching for it, that All kinds of apostasy is punishable by death, because it is greater crime than treason. This makes sense.
Amongst the scholars there is disagreement about the days which apostate gets to repent. As for apostate who insults the religion, there is no disagreement. Not only did he commit treason, he also showed his animosity openly.

i think the point i am getting from you is that apostasy is treason? does that sum it up?

 

[Faybull]

i think the point i am getting from you is that apostasy is treason? does that sum it up?

for example, a man who has no knowledge of Allah but rumors, is held to account when subjected to that knowledge, so what does death have to do with this? Is that unknowing one subjected to grace, to an all-forgiving one?

 

[leibowde84]

Personaly i find it good law, to apply capital punishment for apostates that insults prophet pbuh. However this is only for the amiir/leader to decide. He can also choose to force the apostate into exile.
Why capital punishment is much preferable than exile?
Because what they do(insulting the prophet pbuh or islam)is more severe, much worse than a spy who reveals the secrets of the muslims and who shares info with the enemy.


For if such apostate is tolerated, the illness & rebellion spreads and corruption takes over the land.

Personaly i find it good law, to apply capital punishment for apostates that insults prophet pbuh. However this is only for the amiir/leader to decide. He can also choose to force the apostate into exile.
Why capital punishment is much preferable than exile?
Because what they do(insulting the prophet pbuh or islam)is more severe, much worse than a spy who reveals the secrets of the muslims and who shares info with the enemy.


For if such apostate is tolerated, the illness & rebellion spreads and corruption takes over the land.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are being facicious. But, that is the crazyiest thing I've ever heard. Why would you ever think it would be rational in the slightest to assume I would even think for a second about a historical figure's (Muhammad) feelings before expressing an opinion of his character, misdeeds, or beliefs I find troubling. You can't expect anyone who isn't already a muslim to "steer clear" of Muhammad. He was a real person, open to criticism just like the rest of us.

 

[leibowde84]

This was the conduct of the propbets since Musa pbuh.
For if the apostate is allowed in his misguided ways(criticism, insults), the virus spreads and people become rebellious.


Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

This was the message passed from God to the prophets. But mankind forgets.

Or ignores cuz it's crazy.

 

[outhouse]

I do not see much use in fussing about what I think should be when the what is shall not be changing within generations of human lifetimes.

Don't kid yourself.

Theism in many regards in Christianity has changed dramatically in a very short period of time.

Education and knowledge is working, its just a slow process of having new generations educated beyond their parents beliefs.

Fanaticism and fundamentalism are tough to fight when many old people refuse to learn no matter how credible the evidence is, but there grandkids are ours


Don't give up the good fight

 

[outhouse]

Personaly i find it good law, to apply capital punishment for apostates that insults prophet pbuh.

So what your saying is we should kill people for telling the truth?

 

[Bunyip]

Why? Simply because these claims can not survive criticism.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

So what your saying is we should kill people for telling the truth?

No the state should follow the rulings based on quran and sunnah.

That is if the apostasy is proven and the apostate does not want to prevent.

 

[Quintessence]

Don't give up the good fight

By the time humans - all humans - learn to not take insults against things they value personally, they will no longer be classified as the species Homo sapiens. Human psychology will have to change on such a fundamental level we'll be an entirely different species. Sorry. I don't find spitting into the wind to be productive. There is nothing good about futile fights unless you want to waste your own energy.

 

[gsa]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are being facicious. But, that is the crazyiest thing I've ever heard. Why would you ever think it would be rational in the slightest to assume I would even think for a second about a historical figure's (Muhammad) feelings before expressing an opinion of his character, misdeeds, or beliefs I find troubling. You can't expect anyone who isn't already a muslim to "steer clear" of Muhammad. He was a real person, open to criticism just like the rest of us.

No he is quite serious.

 

[suncowiam]

No he is quite serious.

He never answered my question. Would he actually kill another to defend his beliefs? One would assume that if the belief is justified then the action is warranted.

So far, all is his reasoning is based on the Quran and certain Islamic state legislation. Those are his justifications. There are no other ethical thought processes from him as an individual which requires me to judge him as a radical.

 

[MonkeyFire]

They would enlighten you past skepticism. You will be passive, and you will have better knowledge thus you won't be skeptical.