Why?

[Malus 12:9]

MICH they are all the same to me.

 

[michel]

MICH they are all the same to me.

Do you think you could convince them of that ?

 

[Kowalski]

There are 1000's of people wandering about trying to convert people from one Christian sect to another. I never understood that. Does anyone?

M

Oh, they want to convert everybody,I love a doorstep chat with the LDS, goes nowhere though because they can never see that their arguments are wrong, still if I have the time, it's free entertainment. :jam:

Cheers

K

 

[jonny]

"The person in the spirit world must choose to accept the baptism."

Can dead people not be saved without your baptism? Or will any baptism do - Catholic, JW, or any Christian sect? Or do you believe it has to be LDS?

Secodly, what does the baptism actually do for the dead soul? Were they invisble to God before this?

It has more to do with priesthood authority and less with the name of the church. In the end, I don't think Christ cares about the name of the church, but I do believe that He cares about who is given the authority to perform ordinances in His name. Members of the LDS church believe that the authority to act in Christ's name has to come from Christ and that it was restored through Joseph Smith. Every priesthood holder in the LDS church has a "Prieshood Line of Authority" that maps this out. The Catholic, JW, Baptist, etc churches don't accept the LDS baptism either so I don't feel too bad about it.

LDS members believe in progression after this life, but that certain ordinances have to be performed in this life. It's more complicated than this, but baptism for the dead, if it accepted by the person, releases them from spirit prison or "hell." Just like Christ preached his gospel to the spirits in spirit prison, we believe that the gospel continues to be preached in the spirit world. We believe that baptism is a necessary ordinance; therefore, we practice baptism for the dead. It really doesn't do anyone any harm, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

I know that there is already a thread somewhere debating baptism for the dead so if you have futher questions about that I would direct you there. Otherwise this thread will get off topic quickly.

 

[Merlin]

It has more to do with priesthood authority and less with the name of the church. In the end, I don't think Christ cares about the name of the church, but I do believe that He cares about who is given the authority to perform ordinances in His name. Members of the LDS church believe that the authority to act in Christ's name has to come from Christ and that it was restored through Joseph Smith. Every priesthood holder in the LDS church has a "Prieshood Line of Authority" that maps this out. The Catholic, JW, Baptist, etc churches don't accept the LDS baptism either so I don't feel too bad about it.

LDS members believe in progression after this life, but that certain ordinances have to be performed in this life. It's more complicated than this, but baptism for the dead, if it accepted by the person, releases them from spirit prison or "hell." Just like Christ preached his gospel to the spirits in spirit prison, we believe that the gospel continues to be preached in the spirit world. We believe that baptism is a necessary ordinance; therefore, we practice baptism for the dead. It really doesn't do anyone any harm, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

I know that there is already a thread somewhere debating baptism for the dead so if you have futher questions about that I would direct you there. Otherwise this thread will get off topic quickly.

just one last question then, if I may.

If I have understood you correctly, full salvation in the afterlife can only be achieved following certain ordinances carried out by an LDS minister. Is that correct?

 

[Merlin]

Oh, they want to convert everybody,I love a doorstep chat with the LDS, goes nowhere though because they can never see that their arguments are wrong, still if I have the time, it's free entertainment. :jam:

Cheers

K

They do feel more comfortable now the centre of gravity of the Christian religion has been moved (for them) to the American continents.

 

[jonny]

I have had numerous talks as LDS and JW have called at my house; and the first statement is that, without exception. they are all very nice polite young people. But there was no doubt of their intention to recruit me to their church.

I'm glad that you are more aware of the intentions of the missionaries of my church than former missionaries are.

Are missionaries interested in teaching people who are interested in joining the church? Yes, but it isn't their only purpose. This is the mission statement that missionaries follow: Invite others to come unto Christ by helping them recieve the restored gospel through faith in Jesus Christ and His Atonement, repentence, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end.

Baptism is a part of the purpose, but not the entire purpose. I love my religion. It has given me incredible happiness in my life. So I want to share this with other people. What's wrong with that? There are plenty of people who are dissatisfied with the religion that they were raised in. Like I said before, I don't believe that many people convert from one thing to another - most convert from nothing to something. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've found this to be the true.

Also, keep in mind that almost every religion went through a "recruiting" phase. Some did it by force and war. Others do it through preaching. The LDS church is a young church.

 

[jonny]

just one last question then, if I may.

If I have understood you correctly, full salvation in the afterlife can only be achieved following certain ordinances carried out by an LDS minister. Is that correct?

Yes, but we believe that everyone will receive these ordinances. That's why we build temples.

 

[jonny]

Oh, they want to convert everybody,I love a doorstep chat with the LDS, goes nowhere though because they can never see that their arguments are wrong, still if I have the time, it's free entertainment. :jam:

Cheers

K

You can't expect anyone to be as smart as you are - I wouldn't even know where to start with Einstein because I could never stay awake in science class. Just keep telling us that we are dumb and you'll convince us eventually.

 

[Merlin]

Yes, but we believe that everyone will receive these ordinances. That's why we build temples.

it has been estimated that more than 20 billion people have lived, that is a lot of ordinances to do!

The Catholics have had this belief for 2000 years.

 

[jonny]

it has been estimated that more than 20 billion people have lived, that is a lot of ordinances to do!

The Catholics have had this belief for 2000 years.

That's what the Millenium is for

 

[nutshell]

it has been estimated that more than 20 billion people have lived, that is a lot of ordinances to do!

The Catholics have had this belief for 2000 years.

It's a ton of ordinances! I believe that the work for the dead will greatly accelerate during the Millenium when Christ rules the Earth and the veil between this world and the spirit world will be open.:jiggy:

 

[jonny]

They do feel more comfortable now the centre of gravity of the Christian religion has been moved (for them) to the American continents.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Could you explain this?

 

[Merlin]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Could you explain this?

As I understand it, the stories in the book of Mormon exist entirely in the American continents. Am I not correct?

Also the founder is American, and the original equivalent of the Moses tablet was given in America. The centre of the religion is no longer Jerusalem or Rome, but Salt Lake City, USA

 

[jonny]

As I understand it, the stories in the book of Mormon exist entirely in the American continents. Am I not correct?

Also the founder is American, and the original equivalent of the Moses tablet was given in America. The centre of the religion is no longer Jerusalem or Rome, but Salt Lake City, USA

The story of the Book of Mormon begins in Jerusalem.

I hardly think that the headquarters of a Christian church being in America moves the "center of gravity of the Christian religion."

 

[nutshell]

If fact, there are currently more LDS outside the United States than inside.

 

[jonny]

If fact, there are currently more LDS outside the United States than inside.

True, but when you compare the number of members of the LDS church with the number in the Catholic church the LDS church doesn't even come close. I would still say that the center of Christianity is in Jerusalem or Rome - not Utah.

 

[jewscout]

There are 1000's of people wandering about trying to convert people from one Christian sect to another. I never understood that. Does anyone?

M

i think it's been expressed before but IMPO i think it is because one sect finds themselves more "right" than another...

that being said jonny's reply on page 1 definetly made me see it in a bit of a different light.

 

[Merlin]

The story of the Book of Mormon begins in Jerusalem.

I hardly think that the headquarters of a Christian church being in America moves the "center of gravity of the Christian religion."

sorry, I meant it moved to centre of gravity of the Christian religion as far as Mormons are concerned

 

[Merlin]

I'm glad that you are more aware of the intentions of the missionaries of my church than former missionaries are.

Are missionaries interested in teaching people who are interested in joining the church? Yes, but it isn't their only purpose. This is the mission statement that missionaries follow: Invite others to come unto Christ by helping them recieve the restored gospel through faith in Jesus Christ and His Atonement, repentence, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end.

Baptism is a part of the purpose, but not the entire purpose. I love my religion. It has given me incredible happiness in my life. So I want to share this with other people. What's wrong with that? There are plenty of people who are dissatisfied with the religion that they were raised in. Like I said before, I don't believe that many people convert from one thing to another - most convert from nothing to something. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've found this to be the true.

Also, keep in mind that almost every religion went through a "recruiting" phase. Some did it by force and war. Others do it through preaching. The LDS church is a young church.

I would agree with you. I would also agree that you have an absolute right to evangelise as much as you wish, and other people have the absolute right to join you or reject you as they wish. What I cannot understand is why everybody is being so defensive about the claim that their religion group is better than other sects?

If it wasn't, what was the point of forming it?

All of the modern (19th and 20th-century sects) claim some new enlightenment which you can only receive if you join them. Fair enough! They may well be correct, I don't challenge that. I was hoping that they could set out clearly to people from other religions and other Christian sects why it is that their religion was formed as being better than those that already existed.

Instead of taking the opportunity to set this out, everybody stands back and says "no our religion is not better than yours". I repeat, if that is true, why bother to create these new religious sects?

Incidentally, if Mormons appear at your door and you very politely say that you are a devout born-again Christian (which I am not), they still want to come in and talk to you about being a Mormon. That is from personal experience. whatever you say, you cannot stop them telling you about being a Mormon. So they certainly think it is worth converting.