Will one receive eternal life on the baiss of his/her good intentions?

[Bishka]

• Will one receive eternal life on the baiss of his/her good intentions?

• Why or why not?

 

[Katzpur]

• Will one receive eternal life on the baiss of his/her good intentions?

• Why or why not?

Great topic, Becky. My answer could go either way, actually. I don't believe that good intentions without some effort are going to count for much. On the other hand, I do believe that God knows our hearts. He knows if we're sincere or not (in other words, He knows if our intentions are truly good), and I think He probably takes into account our intentions, even if we don't always succeed in what we intend to do.

 

[Cordoba]

Intention is very important, but on its own it's not enough

There are 2 basic conditions for salvation on The Day of Judgement:

1- Belief in God (Monotheism)

2- Having done good in this life.

Doing good deeds which God accepts has the important condition of having a good intention of acting for the sake of God.

A "good" deed with the wrong intention is not accepted.

 

[adilrockstar]

• Will one receive eternal life on the baiss of his/her good intentions?

• Why or why not?

My beliefs are that you can only be allowed into heaven if you accept Christ sacrifice. That is why he died for us, so we could go to heaven.

 

[Bishka]

My beliefs are that you can only be allowed into heaven if you accept Christ sacrifice. That is why he died for us, so we could go to heaven.

So what about the 5th century Mongolian girl who never heard of Jesus Christ? Or the mental incapacitated 43-year old man? Or the little boy who was abused by his preist and refuses to accept Jesus Christ because of what was ingrained in him and done to him at a young age? Or the 23 year old Seventh Day Adventist who thought they were worshipping Jesus Christ sincerely in their hearts?

Is your God going to condemn all these people to hell because of the bagged they carried in this earthly life? Is that how your God works?

 

[adilrockstar]

So what about the 5th century Mongolian girl who never heard of Jesus Christ? Or the mental incapacitated 43-year old man? Or the little boy who was abused by his preist and refuses to accept Jesus Christ because of what was ingrained in him and done to him at a young age? Or the 23 year old Seventh Day Adventist who thought they were worshipping Jesus Christ sincerely in their hearts?

Is your God going to condemn all these people to hell because of the bagged they carried in this earthly life? Is that how your God works?

I thought we had the "same" God? I though you were a Christian? I thought we believed the same? Why is He "your God"?

 

[Bishka]

I thought we had the "same" God?

We do.

I though you were a Christian?

I am.

I thought we believed the same?

In a manner of speaking

Why is He "your God"?

You claim Him as God don't you? Then He is "your God".

 

[YmirGF]

• Will one receive eternal life on the basis of his/her good intentions?

• Why or why not?

In short, an emphatic "No." In fact, the two are not even related. In essence, it is your interactions with others that will keep you in the "spiritual wading pool". In no way does it affect your overall inherent qualities.

"We", imho, are not the little bodies we trot about our daily lives in. "We" are an eternal spark that is in essence divine. I stress, it doesn't matter what you do, nothing will change this "fact".

Well, you asked. : hamster :

 

[adilrockstar]

We do.



I am.



In a manner of speaking


You claim Him as God don't you? Then He is "your God".

You are very good at getting your foot out of your mouth. But I see very clearly. You are only fooling yourself.

 

[Bishka]

You are very good at getting your foot out of your mouth. But I see very clearly. You are only fooling yourself.

Pardon me?

I was answering you question, not attacking you.

How is this getting my foot out of my mouth? You still haven't answered my questions, it seems as if you are good and dancing around the bush, but I will reserve my final judgements for later.

 

[Pardus]

If God doesn't accept me, he's a tyrrant, i don't care for tyrrants.

 

[Bishka]

If God doesn't accept me, he's a tyrrant, i don't care for tyrrants.

Well, then you should believe in the God I believe in. he'll accept you and everyone else!

 

[Ozzie]

• Will one receive eternal life on the baiss of his/her good intentions?

• Why or why not?

Intentions are a way of categorising what you want from your interactions with others for yourself. If your interactions benefit others as well, why shouldn't they be viewed positively?

 

[Cordoba]

Sincerity

Allah accepts only those acts of worship and rituals that are characterized by sincerity.

What this means is that one should perform a deed only for the sake of earning Allah's pleasure. One should not be prompted by any other motive

Sincerity

 

[Mr. Hair]

• Will one receive eternal life on the baiss of his/her good intentions?

• Why or why not?

I don't believe so. I tend to see the concept of 'eternal life' as inherently contradictory, and while I usually gravitate towards contradictions it does sound like an absurd and unpleasant one. Besides, I wouldn't define my beliefs as including an 'afterlife' in the first place, partly due to a lack of supporting evidence, and I'm doubtful as to whether one can draw such a simple and complete correlation between any two seperate objects.

 

[Cordoba]

Hello Nordic

There is a glimpse of supporting evidence for an afterlife from NDEs

The way I see NDEs is that it's proving that humn beings are more than just a body: we are body and soul

Here are 2 cases of scientific research done on NDEs in the UK & Holland, which may be of interest:

http://www.mikepettigrew.com/afterlife/html/dutch_study.html

The Dutch study was published in the prestigious UK medical magazine (The Lancet)

 

[Tigress]

Great topic, Becky. My answer could go either way, actually. I don't believe that good intentions without some effort are going to count for much. On the other hand, I do believe that God knows our hearts. He knows if we're sincere or not (in other words, He knows if our intentions are truly good), and I think He probably takes into account our intentions, even if we don't always succeed in what we intend to do.

I completely agree. I think that God will take what's in our heart into account, along with our actions. People aren't perfect, and we mess up, even when our intentions are good. If God didn't take that into account, I doubt anyone at all would be receiving eternal life.

 

[Mr. Hair]

Hello Nordic

There is a glimpse of supporting evidence for an afterlife from NDEs

The way I see NDEs is that it's proving that humn beings are more than just a body: we are body and soul

Here are 2 cases of scientific research done on NDEs in the UK & Holland, which may be of interest:

http://www.mikepettigrew.com/afterlife/html/dutch_study.html

The Dutch study was published in the prestigious UK medical magazine (The Lancet)

Hola!

Thank you for the link. It should prove interesting reading, and indeed I already have a few points I'd like to make about it.

However, I think first I should iterate that I don't see this as an issue that needs 'proving' either way. While I hold that all beliefs should be based on evidence, I don't think that any should be (or perhaps even could be) dependent on proof; that two are substantially different. (NDE's could certainly qualify as such evidence for someone, albiet wholly subjective evidence, but could not be considered proof as the results could not be objectively verified)

With that said, onward to the article!

Firstly, I think it important to establish the source of this article. The website, 'The Institute For Afterlife Research', states on its homepage that:

It is our strong desire that our efforts will have the affect of generating interest in Afterlife Exploration and assist many in overcoming their fears of death.

Now, while it would be churlish for me to reject any arguments they present because of our differing viewpoints, particulary as I read this article with my own prejudices which would filter my understanding of it appropriately, it does bear to remember that any information this site presents will be partial and aimed at convincing others towards a particular position on this issue.

Secondly, on the first line the article advances that:

In December 15, 2001, the highly respected international medical journal, The Lancet, published a 13-year study of NDEs observed in 10 different Dutch hospitals.

While this indicates scientific interest, it does not indicate scientific worth.

Thirdly: (Y'all know the drill by now )

For example, in the past some scientists have asserted that the NDE must be simply a hallucination brought on by the loss of oxygen to the brain [called "anoxia"] after the heart has stopped beating. This study casts doubt on that theory, in the words of its chief investigator, cardiologist Pim van Lommel, MD, "Our results show that medical factors cannot account for the occurrence of NDE. All patients had a cardiac arrest, and were clinically dead with unconsciousness resulting from insufficient blood supply to the brain. In those circumstances, the EEG (a measure of brain electrical activity) becomes flat, and if CPR is not started within 5-10 minutes, irreparable damage is done to the brain and the patient will die. According to the theory that NDE is caused by anoxia, all patients in our study should have had an NDE, but only 18% reported having an NDE... There is also a theory that NDE is caused psychologically, by the fear of death. But only a very small percentage of our patients said they had been afraid seconds before their cardiac arrest -- it happened too suddenly for them to realize what was occurring. More patients than the frightened ones reported NDEs."

1. The use of "simply" in the first sentence in an example of pejorative phrasing, which unfortunatly cast furthers doubt on the impartiality of this article.
2. Incorrect. Such a theory does not necessarily require that all patients under such conditions have a NDE, and so the fact that not all did does not diminish it.
3. An inaccurate assumption. One does not need to verbally communicate fear to feel frightened, indeed there exist legitmate phycological reasons which could account for this, and without more scientific methods of analysis it simply isn't possible to authoritivly determine a participants emotional state.

As such, Dr. Lommel's assertion that, "Our results show that medical factors cannot account for the occurrence of NDE", appears to be flawed, as it is based on questionable assumptions.

Fourthly:

During those follow-up interviews (2 years and 8 years later), the scientists assessed the patients' attitudes about several key issues in life -- fear of death, acceptance of others, interest in spirituality, and the like. On 13 such issues they found substantial, statistically significant differences between the NDErs and the non-NDErs. For example, NDErs had become much more empathic and accepting of others since their NDE than had the non-NDErs. And NDErs had become both more appreciative of the ordinary things of life and much less afraid of death than had the non-NDErs.

1. Just because one can draw a correlation between two variables, that does not entail that said correlation is accurate or that either variable has any influence or effect upon the other. To use an old Simpson analogy, one may be in possession of a rock and there may be no tigers around, but that doesn't prove that the rock has any influence on the lack of tigers.
2. It presumes that the only significant difference between the lives of one participant to the next since the beginning of the experiment was whether they had a NDE or not, and seems to ignore the individual disposition of a pps.
3. Even if we accept the claims of this statement as accurate and complete, the only evidence offered that NDE's have a divine origin is that, "NDErs had become much more empathic and accepting of others since their NDE than had the non-NDErs", which is merely speculative. There is simply no argument or evidence offered as to why this indicates a divine source, above others, of NDE's.

-----

*smiles* I suspect I could go on. In essence, I cannot accept the article's claims that NDE's prove the existence of an afterlife, as much of the evidence they offer in defence of these claims seems to be based flawed conclusions and biased observations, and the rest is simply insufficient to draw deductions from.

Incidentally, I'd be glad if you could give me your opinion on my opinions, I dare say I could benefit from another interpretation... *nods*

I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to view that article however, 'twas a fascinating read...

 

[michel]

• Will one receive eternal life on the baiss of his/her good intentions?

• Why or why not?

Well, if the thought is as bad a sin as the acting upon it (which is what I understand), then the 'good intention' should have some value, as long as it is not thought 'just for the sake of it'.

 

[Cordoba]

In essence, I cannot accept the article's claims that NDE's prove the existence of an afterlife

Hola Nordic

Serious scientific research in this field is recently new, so lets say it's work in progress right now, but a type of research which is interesting to monitor as researchers take it more seriously.

The point of bringing up NDE research as supportive evidence was to give a hint that we humans have something extra than just the material body.

The UK study was done by researchers at the University of Southampton, and though it's not mentioned in the article, elsewhere I had read the following approach in one of the experiments:

Cue cards were placed above the beds of patients in intensive care units who were in a critical condition. These cards were placed high up, and could only been seen from above, i.e. from ceiling level looking down.

If a patient was to go through an NDE and come back, the experiment was to test if he/she could recally what was on the cue card. Unfortunately I have not found the answer of what happened, but if you think of it it's an interesting approach.

There is no way that the human brain of a patient flat on a bed would be able to find out what was on the cue card, and if the experiment gave positive results, the only explanation is that human conscience survives in what believers call the human soul.

Where does this soul come from?

And where does it go?

From a believer's perspective it comes from The Creator, and to Him it will one day return.

For more links, especially from a research point of view, you may wish to have a look at this page:

http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html