Will playing violent games make a person violent? Opinions needed

[Riverwolf]

I'm intrigued by the idea that someone could turn an immigration officer into a game but I can see how it would work. My mum was a teacher so I occasionally had to help out do school reports by check for spelling mistakes or grammatical errors. You'd get this report and it would have a name and no picture. The only way to manage the workload was to have copied versions of a report based on ability rather than write them out individually and so I had to check that the pronouns were of the right gender. My mum was just too tired to finish them on her own. the reports had to be checked at multiple stages to cover the possibility of other peoples incomptence or just being to tired to notice mistakes so my mum was glad for that extra a bit of help. So I grasp the dystopian element pretty easily.

If you like no-win situations, DEFCON might be worth a look. practically the only game I know of that dealt with nuclear war strategdy (the kind of motto for it is "everybody dies"). your not playing to 'win' but more to lose the least. I haven't played it, but I remember reading the reviews on amazon and people saying it was well down to make you question 'why am I playing this?' and in a rewarding way. I think if anything that is a game that actually makes players realise why violence is such a bad thing.

My favorite game of all time was Simcity Socities. I spent hours happily building up a city that was really nice to look at even if it didn't do much. some of the theme music was really cool through. unfortunately it was very high in terms of memory and graphics so I never built a full city. hours did just dissappear whilst I was playing that one and by the time I stopped playing it I did have a somewhat pavlovian sense of 'build X building with y values' which was weird (I can still remember it now honestly). I can't say that as game has effected me that much, but I know that playing stratedgy games has made me plan ahead and always try to have a back up plan. I did play Democracy 3 which is best if you play it for "what if?" scenarios rather than whether you win or lose and that was really fasinating one (I think it does get used in classrooms. it's easily the best political sim around, after you're comfortable with the navigation panel). That was one that really did get me thinking.

I agree that alot of it is power fantasy (and yeah the real world is disempowering) and games are easily a more acceptable way to let off steam than in real life as it's a kind of 'safe' environment where no matter what you do- it has no consequences (except as you said with MMORPG as there's still people at the other end of the rage).

You bringing up Simcity Societies actually did remind me of a rather humorous bit from the game review show Zero Punctuation, when he reviewed the most recent title in that franchise (which they stubbornly insist is a reboot, and I counter-stubbornly insist is Sim City 5 because this isn't a type of thing that either can be, or needs to be, rebooted)

For those unaware, the game shipped with always-online DRM, so the game couldn't be played at all without a constant, reliable connection to the internet. And so...

"Oh, but who doesn't have a constant internet connection these days? Poor people? Who can only fantasize about holding a position of power and influence?

Spoiler: punchline

WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO PLAY A GOD GAME?!"

^_^ I love Zero Punctuation.

I've heard Sim City Societies is kinda maligned by fans of the main series, but from what I've seen, it looks fine enough. I've been kinda hesitant to play DEFCON because of my own inhibitions regarding nuclear war, but I still kinda want to try it out. ^_^ I remember liking the tagline for Democracy 3 (I think it was that one, anyway), going something along the lines of: "Think you can be a better President? Now's your chance to prove it!" ...or was that the tagline for the DOS game with the same idea...? I don't remember.

The game that I've been absolutely terrified to play is "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream", because of what I hear happens in it. I understand it's highly introspective and thought-provoking, but ... if half of what I hear about it is true, probably carries just about every trigger warning in the book.

But you know what? All this thinking and introspection is tiring, and the darker games, no matter how thoughtful, aren't always a good idea to play for people recovering from depression like myself. Sometimes, you just gotta follow up a thoughtful session of Ultima IV with a mindless round of Brutal Doom. ...assuming the former's long outdated interface didn't kill your shoulder, that is. DX And yes, the only way to play Doom now is Brutal Doom. It even has John Romero's (unofficial) seal of approval. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

A world where adults routinely call slaughter of human beings "defense" teaches children that violence is socially acceptable, even demanded. We are taught from an early age that it is politically incorrect to call air bombings, counter-terrorism and the like by anything but obfuscative euphemisms.

Videogames may perhaps reinforce that, but to a negligible degree.

As a personal anedote, CS:GO brought me to the knowledge of Karambits, which by its turn led to a lot of youtube videos. It is interesting to see how consistently and casually people explain that personal defense involves techniques for causing irreversible maiming if not lethal damage which will lead one to prison.

There is quite the mixed message in there. I have actually read that claiming to have a knife for personal defense may put one in trouble with law enforcement officers. I don't doubt those claims, but it is interesting how used we have become to calling intent to maim or kill (presumably before someone else does the same to us) "defense".

A karambit (or for that matter, a firearm) may perhaps be advisable when one expects to be in a life-threatening situation. But it is not at all a defense tool. It is not armor. It is not a shield. It could technically be used for parrying, but really, that is a secondary benefit at best.

People do not learn Silat or join the Armed Forces hoping to exert "defense". That is just a convenient misnomer for attempts at self-delusion, implicit dehumanizing of others and repurposing of aggressive intent.

Videogames do reflect that mentality, but they can hardly be blamed with creating it. Incidentally, we don't see much in the way of evidence of people developing a craving for saving princesses or seeking phantoms in corridors, either.

Well, it's primarily the "modern" warfare games reinforce these notions, from what I understand. (Though the game "Spec Ops: The Line" sought to strongly undermine the whole thing.) I, personally, don't play those games, even the actual game Modern Warfare, which is supposedly ... well, "the only good one". I've never been into war shooters, though it's largely because I honestly have trouble distinguishing friend from foe until the foe has killed me. Plus, I understand those games' communities are ... is there even a nice way of putting it? Toxic.

But even outside of the context of fantasy violence marketed and disguised as "realistic", what you describe can be found with other contexts. A lot of RPGs subtly encourage players to hoard everything they can get and save all their healing items even in desperate situations, "because I might need it later!" While that reflects a different, perhaps non-violent mindset, it's still the idea that there is danger up ahead, and it needs to be prepared for preemptively.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, it's primarily the "modern" warfare games reinforce these notions, from what I understand. (Though the game "Spec Ops: The Line" sought to strongly undermine the whole thing.) I, personally, don't play those games, even the actual game Modern Warfare, which is supposedly ... well, "the only good one". I've never been into war shooters, though it's largely because I honestly have trouble distinguishing friend from foe until the foe has killed me. Plus, I understand those games' communities are ... is there even a nice way of putting it? Toxic.

Save yourself the time. The Modern Warfare, and Call of Duty in general, suck. They pale in comparison to Counter Strike, Golden Eye, Quake III: Team Arena, Perfect Dark, and of course DOOM, Quake, and Wolfenstein are much better.
And, yes, the online community of those games are the worst I've seen. The way people are, you'd think those games were actually important, significant in life, and things that actually mattered.

But even outside of the context of fantasy violence marketed and disguised as "realistic", what you describe can be found with other contexts. A lot of RPGs subtly encourage players to hoard everything they can get and save all their healing items even in desperate situations, "because I might need it later!" While that reflects a different, perhaps non-violent mindset, it's still the idea that there is danger up ahead, and it needs to be prepared for preemptively.

That's an interesting point. A lot of RPGs will definitely be a lot harder if you don't sparingly use healing and mana items, and many of them do teach strategy and and foresight.
Saving items, specifically Rock Candy in Super Mario RPG: LotSS, is how I was able to beat the hardest fight in the game, Culex, without having a healer in my party.

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you equating violence with planning?

 

[dgirl1986]

You may like to go to google scholar and search on the subject to see what that shows on the subject.

Anecdotally...I have played violent games, as have my parents and siblings. We are not violent individuals. In fact, a lot of people say I am too kind.

We can seperate make believe (games) from real life (violence)

 

[powellbr5591]

You may like to go to google scholar and search on the subject to see what that shows on the subject.

Anecdotally...I have played violent games, as have my parents and siblings. We are not violent individuals. In fact, a lot of people say I am too kind.

We can seperate make believe (games) from real life (violence)

Oh yeah, I've got a lot of games, I'll post what ones later, but the only one that is non violent is Need for Speed and even then on the rating it mentions part of the reason it's rated e10 is because of car-to-car violence, so it's pretty well a mute point

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are you equating violence with planning?

No. We are discussing the planning and strategizing involved in role playing games in order to achieve goals.
I don't know of many people who take the violence in role playing games--which involves teams standing in line, taking turns, and the player selecting what to do (which almost always include, as a standard, attack, magic, item, and retreat--very seriously and suggest they are prone to making people thinking violently.
Tactical RPGs, such as Shining Force, Vandal Hearts, or Arc the Lad, involve a chess-like element of having to move characters around a map, and carefully moving them in order to carry out an effective strategy, making sure they won't take too much damage, and characters who shouldn't be in the front (typically mages and archers) aren't put in any risk of having enemy characters attacking them.
And, of course, there are strengths and weaknesses to consider, elemental weaknesses and resistances, turn order, and other things that have to be considered for an effective strategy.
And if it's the Disgaea series, the colored grid system adds a puzzle-game element to the game, and the games have a very steep learning curve with a bunch of different stuff to learn and do.

 

[powellbr5591]

The games that I currently own are:
-CoD MW1, 2, & 3, Black ops 1 & 2, Ghosts, and Advanced Warfare
-every Halo game except for #2, the Master Chief collection, and #5
-Binary Domain
-Assassin's Creed
-Dishonored
-The Last Remnant (made by the people who make Final Fantasy)
-Final Fantasy 13
-Devil May Cry the HD collection
-Shadows of the Damned
-TES: Oblivion
-TES: Skyrim
-Wolfenstine : TNO
-Battlefield Hardline
-The Witcher #2
-Dead Space #1
I owned Borderlands #s 1 & 2 but I sold them for some quick cash

 

[dgirl1986]

Oh yeah, I've got a lot of games, I'll post what ones later, but the only one that is non violent is Need for Speed and even then on the rating it mentions part of the reason it's rated e10 is because of car-to-car violence, so it's pretty well a mute point

I have played and do play...

Battlefield 1942
Counterstrike
Dead or Alive
Destiny
Don't Starve
Dragon Age
Dragon Age II
Dragon Age Inquisition
Fable
Fable II
Fable III
LA Noire
Left For Dead
Mass Effect
Mass Effect II
Mortal Kombat
Oblivion
Sims
Sims 2
Sims 3
Sims 4
Skyrim
Tekken
UFC
Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines

HELL! YES!

 

[powellbr5591]

Skyrim

Skyrim FTW for sure

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Skyrim FTW for sure

Morrowind is still my favorite. Skyrim just starting making things too easy, I didn't really care much for traveling the mountainous terrain, and one of my biggest complaints, which started with Oblivion, is the markers on the compass that show you were to go. I wouldn't have minded a compass for Morrowind, but something that marks the way really detracts from the immersion of the game.

 

[powellbr5591]

Morrowind is still my favorite. Skyrim just starting making things too easy, I didn't really care much for traveling the mountainous terrain, and one of my biggest complaints, which started with Oblivion, is the markers on the compass that show you were to go. I wouldn't have minded a compass for Morrowind, but something that marks the way really detracts from the immersion of the game.

I don't really use the compass all that much, although I'm finished with most of the quests, I'm now exploring and killing to level up to fight a legendary dragon and the Ebony Warrior

 

[SomeRandom]

Tetris is a very serious thing. Nothing casual about it.

Ahh but of course. I think Tetris is the one exception, given that it's the most manly man game in existence.

 

[SomeRandom]

You may like to go to google scholar and search on the subject to see what that shows on the subject.

Anecdotally...I have played violent games, as have my parents and siblings. We are not violent individuals. In fact, a lot of people say I am too kind.

We can seperate make believe (games) from real life (violence)

I grew up with the GTA series (own the last two, was saddened by the destruction of my San Andreas copy ) All the normal ones I played as a kid, Wolfenstien, Doom, Goldeneye and a few of the Need for speed games.
I own (yes I cataloged them, I was sick and bored) 67 games. Most of them violent, hack and slash or just plain ****ed up. To say nothing of my movie collection, which is equal parts Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks/Aardman/WB and R18+ gory violent material. And then there's my book collection. Violent YA, violent Adult, cartoony violent Children's stories and the bawdiest violent classics I can find.

I am very meek in real life, I don't really like face to face confrontation and I'm often too lost in my own little world to want to be violent anyway.

 

[Laika]

You bringing up Simcity Societies actually did remind me of a rather humorous bit from the game review show Zero Punctuation, when he reviewed the most recent title in that franchise (which they stubbornly insist is a reboot, and I counter-stubbornly insist is Sim City 5 because this isn't a type of thing that either can be, or needs to be, rebooted)

For those unaware, the game shipped with always-online DRM, so the game couldn't be played at all without a constant, reliable connection to the internet. And so...

"Oh, but who doesn't have a constant internet connection these days? Poor people? Who can only fantasize about holding a position of power and influence?

Spoiler: punchline

WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO PLAY A GOD GAME?!"

^_^ I love Zero Punctuation.

I've heard Sim City Societies is kinda maligned by fans of the main series, but from what I've seen, it looks fine enough.

yeah, Simcity socities is kind of a 'kids game' that involves little or no stratedgy (compared to Simcity 3000 and Simcity 4 which I've played), but it just hit the spot for me as you could pretty much build any dystopia you want (Cyberpunk was a favorite ). the utopian side wasn't as intresting. It's now really cheap and worth a look (if you don't have any compatability issues).

I watched Simcity 5 come out and revisited the reviews on Amazon a few times. boy, was there alot of hate and it really divided people. the graphics on 'cities of tommorrow' expansion looked good, but not very adventerous in terms of concepts by the look of it.

I've been kinda hesitant to play DEFCON because of my own inhibitions regarding nuclear war, but I still kinda want to try it out. ^_^

Know the feeling. on the one hand "I want to blow sh*t up!" but on the other hand...

making Hitler, Stalin and Mao look like amateurs....

I remember liking the tagline for Democracy 3 (I think it was that one, anyway), going something along the lines of: "Think you can be a better President? Now's your chance to prove it!" ...or was that the tagline for the DOS game with the same idea...? I don't remember.

well, making the US commie was fun. having a political compass to show where the voters were was a nice touch (although it could be a bit glitchy as you could make it go so extreme it was outside of the box). Once you've flipped enough switches to get the society you want, it then becomes about experimenting.

The game that I've been absolutely terrified to play is "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream", because of what I hear happens in it. I understand it's highly introspective and thought-provoking, but ... if half of what I hear about it is true, probably carries just about every trigger warning in the book.

But you know what? All this thinking and introspection is tiring, and the darker games, no matter how thoughtful, aren't always a good idea to play for people recovering from depression like myself. Sometimes, you just gotta follow up a thoughtful session of Ultima IV with a mindless round of Brutal Doom. ...assuming the former's long outdated interface didn't kill your shoulder, that is. DX And yes, the only way to play Doom now is Brutal Doom. It even has John Romero's (unofficial) seal of approval. ^_^

looked up the wikipedia article. Holy mother of god! WTF is this!

And it's virtually unwinnable!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! dam masochists.

yeah I know the feeling. introspection alone doesn't provide real answers and 'life' in general is better for people with/recovering from depression (speaking as a fellow sufferer-best wishes my freind). alot of the abstract hypothetical worst case scenarioes can make great games but almost never appear in real-life. it bothers me that I live in a society that will readily entertain just about every dystopian, apocolpytic scenario and not one utopia. I bought Civilisation: Beyond Earth recently (it's souless so not worth the money) and whilst set in space, it still had a dystopian backdrop as things go wrong on earth. that's more a compliant of someone with depression rather than of games specifically. (There are some Sci-fi shorts on youtube and they are always dystopian).

[edit: though given the number of games I'm using to play with dystopian themes, I admit its hard to find believeable utopias at this point. if I did see one, I wonder if I'd dismiss it honestly].

 

[Smart_Guy]

I love violent games, yet I wouldn't hurt a soul, not even indirectly.

I don't think video games make us violent, I think lag and frame rate skipping due to bad internet and low-end hardware do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think video games make us violent, I think lag and frame rate skipping due to bad internet and low-end hardware do.

That reminds me of all the years I spent having to game online on 20-something K dialup because that was the only thing available.
That meant most games couldn't be played online, and the ones I could play online, a series of lag could mean the difference between victory and defeat.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not really. I think violent media can encourage inernal violence that's already there but I don't know about creating that violent impulse out of nothing. I think all humans, to varying degrees, have latent violent tendencies as they are part of human nature. The global popularity of violent sports such as boxing, wrestling, MMA, football and hockey testify to that.

As for me, I have had violent fantasies since about my early teen years. I have listened to very violent and gory music, watched vioent and gory films and played violent games like GTA and Manhunt since I was pretty young. Later on in my teens, I started ewing videos of real violence, murders, suicide, torture, gory accidents, etc. I also read extremly violent novels, some of which I've had to put down at times. I've also been fascinated with serial killers and mass murderers since my teens. I tend to view it as a combination of natural impulses and social conditioning.

 

[Riverwolf]

Are you equating violence with planning?

No.

Also, intelligent planning and blind hoarding are two different things. It's the difference between a businessman who's able to keep a company alive through fair practices while allowing for a life of luxury, and a businessman who's always making cuts, laying off/firing workers, and keeping a spartan life on the off-chance that things go wrong.

Both this sort of hoarding, and preemptive violence justified as "defense", are rooted in the same broad, realistically unreasonable paranoid mindset that also keeps people afraid of the next upcoming apocalypse that the government knows about but covering up.