Will the Jewish people ever accept the Messiah?

[Flankerl]

Just cause you punctuate it with Blahs does not make the rest untrue.

Ah the eternal Christian butthurt that those who were supposed to be foundation have rejected the Message again and again.
But its not our fault that your cute Greco-Roman Religion makes absolutely no sense from a Jewish perspective, be it todays perspective or 19XX years ago perspective.

I know that must really bug you but we just aren't into your foreign Religion. Is it that hard not to proselytise us? Can't you people do something worthwhile, like fighting inequality or starvation in poor countries?
I know there are Greco-Roman groups who do this, but it always comes with proselytising which is an incredibly A-hole thing to do.
Might as well give them blankets with the Pox and then offer them the cure with a neat baptising coupled to it.


Why couldn't our Neighbours have been Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs or the like? Why did it have to be apocalyptic people who wanted to kill us and since then have turned into false loving us just so that they could proselytise us?

 

[metis]

Submission to scripture is done so with an awareness that His thoughts are higher, better and greater than our own. I can agree with your point while disagreeing with its implication. The Old Testament testifies to Christ and was ignored by too many who have read it. Whose thoughts dominate when the scriptures themselves are denied?

Actually the Tanakh really doesn't "testify to Christ" unless someone does some rather bizarre theological gymnastics, but if you think it does, that's OK with me as I have no reason to even attempt to drag you away from your religion.

One aspect of religion is that even the most basic beliefs are typically unfalsifiable. For example, if I say I believe that our universe was made by the Cosmic Godzilla, who you cannot see because he's a spiritual deity, whereas he created the stars from the burning spit-wads coming from his mouth and planets were just unlit spit-wads, prove me wrong.

Also, it is virtually impossible to prove one set of scriptures belief statements as being correct and others as being wrong. For example, how would one go about proving the basic teachings of the Bhagavad Gita is wrong? or that the Bible is right? OTOG, if one says "I believe more in the ___ ", that's fine as far as I'm concerned.

The single biggest problem in this area is claiming certainty whereas, logically, there is no verifiable certainty. If we think we are certain, we're simply deluding ourselves. If we don't question even our most basic beliefs, then we've closed our mind off, thus resorting more towards ignorance than intelligence.

To judge others based on our rather conjectural beliefs is terrible and has resulted in much hurt over the centuries. To me, any religious approach that builds walls instead of bridges is likely to be bogus. Why would God, or the Gods, want us to argue and fight? Maybe understanding and love is more important? I think so. And I also think that this is likely what Jesus felt was more important as well.

 

[mindlight]

The sect was started by Jews, yes, but you conveniently forgot to mention by the second century not a Jew could be found in this sect. It’s also no surprise that many of these Jews who have converted to the “Jews for Jesus” movement were marginal Jews to start with. What I mean by marginal is that they were not firmly grounded in Judaism from the get go. They had very little to give up. What also doesn’t surprise me is that the very founder of the “Jews for Jesus”, movement Martin "Moishe" Rosen was a marginal Jew himself.

“Although his father regularly attended an Orthodox synagogue Rosen describes him as irreligious and viewing religion as a "racket".” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moishe_Rosen

Year after year Rosen’s father drills in this boy’s head that religion is a “racket”. It’s no surprise to me why Rosen left Judaism. Another thing that does not surprise me is that history has a tendency to repeat itself. The Apostle Paul goes to the Gentiles only after he gives up on the Jews. The Gentiles did not have to give up the Law. They were never part of it. Therefore they were a much easier sell then the Jews were.

In Paul’s own words:

“Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.”(Acts 13:46)

“But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."” (Acts 18:6)

Most of that is common sense. Replace the word education with the "cultivation of entrenched close mindedness" then you have it in a nut shell. It is also true that Jews are more of a challenge and that Paul (the apostle to the Gentiles) had no time for those who rejected the gospel. Others like James the leader of the Jewish church devoted their lives to witnessing to the Jews and supporting the Jewish church. The fall of Jerusalem and diaspora and the massive growth of the Gentile church made them less important to the overall balance but there have always been believers from a Jewish background.

 

[metis]

There really was no "massive growth in the Jewish church", which in large part led to the door being opened to the gentiles. According to the Lutheran theologian Martin Marty, the church was in danger of being wiped out on three different occasions within its first century, it was so fragile.

 

[George Manuel Oliveira]

But don't you get it? You initially asked if you will ever be accepted by Jews. The answer has been made obvious:
If you aren't a descendant, if you can't build the temple, if you aren't absolutely what is described on those pages then you simply CAN'T be the messiah so all of your self promotion and insistence is meaningless. You as people to accept you when you admit you fall short of the requirements. When the messiah comes, no one will reject him because he will be the messiah. He doesn't become the messiah BECAUSE people accept him.

I disagree!

And I didn't "admit" that I "fall short of these requirements." No! Rather, I honestly admitted that I don't know if I am a descendent of king David and king Solomon. Because I never did an ancestral search for My lineage, besides what My parents/family have told Me I am. For all I know, it's totally possible that I am a descendent of king David and king Solomon! But I would imagine that not everyone's ancestral lineage is accurate because of infidelity in marriage, one night stands, errors in recorded history, etc..

And why do you assume that the Moshiach will have to build the Third Temple all by Myself? Where is that written in your Tenakh?

Has ANY temple in the whole world EVER been built by God (or Moshiach) all by Himself?

Of course, if I had all of the equipment/tools, I could build the Third Temple all by Myself. But to believe that God and/or Moshiach is going to build the Third Temple all by Himself is ridiculously ludicrous, because if the temple would be made from many tons of rocks, no person can EVER move many ton stones all by themselves (without the use of equipment and tools).

Why don't you ask God in prayer for Him to build the Third Temple all by Himself, to prove that He exists and He has the Power over the physical world! If God is omnipotent and Almighty than it would be such a simple task for Him to build your Third Temple.

If your god, or anyone's god, is real then have Him prove that He exists through an UNDENIABLE, IRREFUTABLE demonstration of His existence and Power that even all of the scientists and politicians and elites, ect., have to acknowledge that God exists and that He is Almighty omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God of all of creation...?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

But yet, the majority of people in the world believe and know that their god exists, even though there is NO PROOF of any supernatural gods ever existing (according to science)!

But yet, I am the living Proof for My Self, but some people still don't believe. Why?

What's the point of worshipping a god if he or she cannot be proven, and it doesn't do anyone any (provable) favors because of your gods own ability?

But some people believe that I am crazy, because I believe in Myself...?

Why don't you pray to your god to prove himself to Me(ssiah), and the whole world, so that everyone has to accept this god as a fact of life? Or pray to your god to come talk to Me on the internet, and I want to see videos of him, so that I can know what he looks like and talks like, etc.?

Where is (your proof of) your god?

Make your god prove himself by building the Third Temple all by himself!

As I have said, some people believe impossible, nonsensical, fallacious, mythical, asinine, dogmatic fairytales about what what the Messiah Prophet Lord Savior King Christ God should be like. For example, even though billions of people believe that Jesus was a prophet and/or savior, but still billions of people believe that Jesus is a man-made myth.

There will NEVER be a worldwide consensus about who is the Messiah God, because even though I have undeniable, irrefutable proof of and for My Self- some people would rather worship idols like their "holy books", instead of recognizing the Living Proof of the Lord Himself!

Where is the logic?

~PEACE~

 

[mindlight]

There really was no "massive growth in the Jewish church", which in large part led to the door being opened to the gentiles. According to the Lutheran theologian Martin Marty, the church was in danger of being wiped out on three different occasions within its first century, it was so fragile.

The "Jewish" church bit was a typo - i corrected my post before i noticed you replied. If the church had been dependent on its Jewish element it may well have been wiped out in the first century. Jews were pretty uninteresting and unimportant in the intervening period. They are interesting now for 2 main reasons:

1) there appears to have been a prophetic fulfillment in the return to Zion. Israel has been centre stage ever since and their are prophecies about the temple and the conversion of the Jews that now seem possible.

2) the Jewish objections to Jesus being the Messiah prophesied by scripture are used by Muslims to support the authority of the Koran. Their argument being that "look the Quran does not stand in contradiction to all previous witnesses because those witnesses cannot even agree on what that witness is." The Jews remain numerically unimportant but their conversion may be a key to unlocking the Muslim world and releasing more than a billion people from the oppression of false religion.

 

[Flankerl]

false religion

Adorable and disgusting.

 

[roger1440]

The Old Testament testifies to Christ...

Where?

 

[metis]

The "Jewish" church bit was a typo - i corrected my post before i noticed you replied. If the church had been dependent on its Jewish element it may well have been wiped out in the first century. Jews were pretty uninteresting and unimportant in the intervening period. They are interesting now for 2 main reasons:

1) there appears to have been a prophetic fulfillment in the return to Zion. Israel has been centre stage ever since and their are prophecies about the temple and the conversion of the Jews that now seem possible.

2) the Jewish objections to Jesus being the Messiah prophesied by scripture are used by Muslims to support the authority of the Koran. Their argument being that "look the Quran does not stand in contradiction to all previous witnesses because those witnesses cannot even agree on what that witness is." The Jews remain numerically unimportant but their conversion may be a key to unlocking the Muslim world and releasing more than a billion people from the oppression of false religion.

Who is the "They" (see underlined word)? What do your points have to do with what I was referring to? How the Muslims may look at this issue or how they may look at us or Jesus is irrelevant to the discussion. Whether they are a "false religion", which I don't believe is the case btw, has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

 

[George Manuel Oliveira]

@mindlight, why did you write, "I too am a Nazarene," below your username?

We're you born and raised in Nazareth? And do you live in Nazareth now?

I'm just curious... and I find it amazing how we can all converse with each other at the speed of light, and to anywhere in the whole world (that has access to the internet). And I feel Blessed that I live in the infancy of a global communications network where we are all connected with each other, and we can all learn and/or teach each other our sentiment and beliefs, etc..

I'm from Massachusetts, USA, and if you watched My YouTube videos of Myself, you would be able to hear Me say that.

Anyways, how are you doing? What's it like to be a Nazarene (living in Nazareth)?

Thanks in advance for your friendly response!

~PEACE~

 

[rosends]

I disagree!

And I didn't "admit" that I "fall short of these requirements." No! Rather, I honestly admitted that I don't know if I am a descendent of king David and king Solomon. Because I never did an ancestral search for My lineage, besides what My parents/family have told Me I am. For all I know, it's totally possible that I am a descendent of king David and king Solomon! But I would imagine that not everyone's ancestral lineage is accurate because of infidelity in marriage, one night stands, errors in recorded history, etc..

And why do you assume that the Moshiach will have to build the Third Temple all by Myself? Where is that written in your Tenakh?

Has ANY temple in the whole world EVER been built by God (or Moshiach) all by Himself?

Of course, if I had all of the equipment/tools, I could build the Third Temple all by Myself. But to believe that God and/or Moshiach is going to build the Third Temple all by Himself is ridiculously ludicrous, because if the temple would be made from many tons of rocks, no person can EVER move many ton stones all by themselves (without the use of equipment and tools).

Why don't you ask God in prayer for Him to build the Third Temple all by Himself, to prove that He exists and He has the Power over the physical world! If God is omnipotent and Almighty than it would be such a simple task for Him to build your Third Temple.

If your god, or anyone's god, is real then have Him prove that He exists through an UNDENIABLE, IRREFUTABLE demonstration of His existence and Power that even all of the scientists and politicians and elites, ect., have to acknowledge that God exists and that He is Almighty omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God of all of creation...?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

But yet, the majority of people in the world believe and know that their god exists, even though there is NO PROOF of any supernatural gods ever existing (according to science)!

But yet, I am the living Proof for My Self, but some people still don't believe. Why?

What's the point of worshipping a god if he or she cannot be proven, and it doesn't do anyone any (provable) favors because of your gods own ability?

But some people believe that I am crazy, because I believe in Myself...?

Why don't you pray to your god to prove himself to Me(ssiah), and the whole world, so that everyone has to accept this god as a fact of life? Or pray to your god to come talk to Me on the internet, and I want to see videos of him, so that I can know what he looks like and talks like, etc.?

Where is (your proof of) your god?

Make your god prove himself by building the Third Temple all by himself!

As I have said, some people believe impossible, nonsensical, fallacious, mythical, asinine, dogmatic fairytales about what what the Messiah Prophet Lord Savior King Christ God should be like. For example, even though billions of people believe that Jesus was a prophet and/or savior, but still billions of people believe that Jesus is a man-made myth.

There will NEVER be a worldwide consensus about who is the Messiah God, because even though I have undeniable, irrefutable proof of and for My Self- some people would rather worship idols like their "holy books", instead of recognizing the Living Proof of the Lord Himself!

Where is the logic?

~PEACE~

You disagree? That's adorable. Given that you have no position of authority which makes your disagreement at all relevant, feel free to disagree and continue to be cast aside. You have no evidence, no proof, and especially, no consensus that you are anything. Therefore, you are nothing. You can continue to speak with aliens, and have delusions but when you wonder why Jews, who have established rules and expectations, reject your grand delusion, then you strain credulity. You lack the most basic understanding of Judaism and when shown, ignore the central messianic beliefs of Judaism because they only undermine your claims. You "disagree" simply because you can't afford to agree. This is just more proof that you are nothing of note.

 

[RabbiO]

You disagree? That's adorable. Given that you have no position of authority which makes your disagreement at all relevant, feel free to disagree and continue to be cast aside. You have no evidence, no proof, and especially, no consensus that you are anything. Therefore, you are nothing. You can continue to speak with aliens, and have delusions but when you wonder why Jews, who have established rules and expectations, reject your grand delusion, then you strain credulity. You lack the most basic understanding of Judaism and when shown, ignore the central messianic beliefs of Judaism because they only undermine your claims. You "disagree" simply because you can't afford to agree. This is just more proof that you are nothing of note.

Rabbi R, has anyone ever told you that you're beautiful when you get angry?

 

[rosends]

Rabbi R, has anyone ever told you that you're beautiful when you get angry?

I'm always beautiful. People only notice it when I'm angry

 

[metis]

I'm always beautiful. People only notice it when I'm angry

But then one ugly duck probably thinks that another ugly duck is beautiful, so RabbiO's opinion is about as worthless as a box of quackers.

 

[mindlight]

@mindlight, why did you write, "I too am a Nazarene," below your username?

We're you born and raised in Nazareth? And do you live in Nazareth now?

I'm just curious... and I find it amazing how we can all converse with each other at the speed of light, and to anywhere in the whole world (that has access to the internet). And I feel Blessed that I live in the infancy of a global communications network where we are all connected with each other, and we can all learn and/or teach each other our sentiment and beliefs, etc..

I'm from Massachusetts, USA, and if you watched My YouTube videos of Myself, you would be able to hear Me say that.

Anyways, how are you doing? What's it like to be a Nazarene (living in Nazareth)?

Thanks in advance for your friendly response!

~PEACE~

I am showing my empathy to Christians in the Muslim neighbourhoods of Syria and Iraq who are being persecuted or dying for their faith. This Arabic letter was posted on their doors in much the same ways as yellow stars were on Jewish houses in the holocaust. I do not live in Nazareth though I have been there. The word Christian like Nazarene was probably first used by the mockers and scoffers as an abusive term of reference.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/02/13/symbol-hope-for-persecuted-christians.html

 

[mindlight]

Actually the Tanakh really doesn't "testify to Christ" unless someone does some rather bizarre theological gymnastics, but if you think it does, that's OK with me as I have no reason to even attempt to drag you away from your religion.

One aspect of religion is that even the most basic beliefs are typically unfalsifiable. For example, if I say I believe that our universe was made by the Cosmic Godzilla, who you cannot see because he's a spiritual deity, whereas he created the stars from the burning spit-wads coming from his mouth and planets were just unlit spit-wads, prove me wrong.

Also, it is virtually impossible to prove one set of scriptures belief statements as being correct and others as being wrong. For example, how would one go about proving the basic teachings of the Bhagavad Gita is wrong? or that the Bible is right? OTOG, if one says "I believe more in the ___ ", that's fine as far as I'm concerned.

The single biggest problem in this area is claiming certainty whereas, logically, there is no verifiable certainty. If we think we are certain, we're simply deluding ourselves. If we don't question even our most basic beliefs, then we've closed our mind off, thus resorting more towards ignorance than intelligence.

To judge others based on our rather conjectural beliefs is terrible and has resulted in much hurt over the centuries. To me, any religious approach that builds walls instead of bridges is likely to be bogus. Why would God, or the Gods, want us to argue and fight? Maybe understanding and love is more important? I think so. And I also think that this is likely what Jesus felt was more important as well.

We will probably disagree on the level of theological gymnastics that are required to believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

There are levels of plausibility when considering the claims of one religion over another. There is not a shred of proof that monkey gods built a causeway to Sri Lanka for instance but it makes a great story. The bible old and new testaments is actually a remarkable collection of prophecies that came true, historical and archaeological facts that can be confirmed and is grounded in an historical experience that is missing from other religions. We only have one witness that Mohammed shared the dictated words of God straight from Gabriels mouth. There is a great cloud of witnesses that contradict that. But at the end of the day it all comes down to how you respond to Christ. All the other religious and political leaders throughout the ages are a big disappointment compared to Him.

 

[mindlight]

Adorable and disgusting.

Yeh like you do not actually believe the same about Islam.

 

[mindlight]

Where?

http://www.biblestudytools.com/conc...al-textbook/prophecies-respecting-christ.html

 

[mindlight]

Who is the "They" (see underlined word)? What do your points have to do with what I was referring to? How the Muslims may look at this issue or how they may look at us or Jesus is irrelevant to the discussion. Whether they are a "false religion", which I don't believe is the case btw, has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

They is basically a reference to any Jew that does not accept Jesus as Messiah. It is a definition that brackets liberals and Orthodox in the same Synagogue but it is not a racially based label as there are Messianic Jews in Israel and in the diaspora.

 

[Flankerl]

Yeh like you do not actually believe the same about Islam.

No I don't. You apparently have no clue about Jews and Judaism.

Not surprising though.