Will the West be Pagan again?

[LyricalDutchess]

How would you define witchcraft? It seems to be a broad definition, according to what you've written:

Sorcery, spells, curses, magik, fortune telling. And the bible tells us rebellion is as witchcraft. In the sense it draws us further away from God.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

What exactly is the difference between a 'spell' and a 'prayer'? Between a magical ritual and a baptism?

It seems they are the same thing, only a different brand. Like someone who likes big trucks but only 'fords' and not 'chevys'.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

When you say live in harmony with the energies, how do they go about that?

Well obviously if they think God is all there is, and everything that exists, exists in God, then they would believe all these energies interconnected. They wouldn't want to manupilate that, because it would be like trying to manipulate God himself, as CS Lewis put forth in the Silver Chair. If you've ever read the Chronicles of Narnia. Eustace wanted to get back to Narnia, so Jill suggested they draw a circle and say magic words, but Eustace said he didn't think Aslan would like that much. He said he supposed all they could do was ask him.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

What exactly is the difference between a 'spell' and a 'prayer'? Between a magical ritual and a baptism?

It seems they are the same thing, only a different brand. Like someone who likes big trucks but only 'fords' and not 'chevys'.

In a way it is much the same, but I think a difference can be seen. People who pray aren't really trying to manipulate God, they're asking.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Sorcery, spells, curses, magik, fortune telling. And the bible tells us rebellion is as witchcraft. In the sense it draws us further away from God.

While things may draw one further away from one God, they may also draw one closer to other Gods and Goddesses. It's like being drawn away from the ice cream truck in favor of the candy store. It's all a matter of what is right for one.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

And also lyrical, many Mystics do indeed have knowledge of the magical arts, but it doesn't mean we'd use them. Coming to an understanding of the true reality means coming to the realization that all these things exist, even magic. The Mystic could probably be very potent in magic, but it doesn't mean they would use it. I don't use magic, but I certainly could. I could probably be a real pro at the right hand path stuff.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I still don't see a difference. A magical rite, in most traditions, is basically an appeal to the universe or some other non abrahamic deity for a certain end to come about. How is this distinct from prayer?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Well obviously if they think God is all there is, and everything that exists, exists in God, then they would believe all these energies interconnected. They wouldn't want to manupilate that, because it would be like trying to manipulate God himself, as CS Lewis put forth in the Silver Chair. If you've ever read the Chronicles of Narnia. Eustace wanted to get back to Narnia, so Jill suggested they draw a circle and say magic words, but Eustace said he didn't think Aslan would like that much. He said he supposed all they could do was ask him.

O....k.....so they really do nothing but live their lives as Christ did. Maybe im missing something. lol

 

[Rainbow Mage]

While things may draw one further away from one God, they may also draw one closer to other Gods and Goddesses. It's like being drawn away from the ice cream truck in favor of the candy store. It's all a matter of what is right for one.

Enchanted you know I believe in other gods and goddesses, not in a Polytheistic sense, but I still do. I don't use magic brother. I could, but I don't. To me it's disrespectful, trying to manipulate their power like that, rather then asking for things.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

And also lyrical, many Mystics do indeed have knowledge of the magical arts, but it doesn't mean we'd use them. Coming to an understanding of the true reality means coming to the realization that all these things exist, even magic. The Mystic could probably be very potent in magic, but it doesn't mean they would use it. I don't use magic, but I certainly could. I could probably be a real pro at the right hand path stuff.

Well i believe magic exists and that its real and can work. But......

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I still don't see a difference. A magical rite, in most traditions, is basically an appeal to the universe or some other non abrahamic deity for a certain end to come about. How is this distinct from prayer?

Because it isn't their prayer. It's much the same way that members of a certain faith will pray in front of a crucifix and say they just use it to focus on Jesus, yet if I pray in front of a statue of Anubis they try to say I am worshiping the statue.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

While things may draw one further away from one God, they may also draw one closer to other Gods and Goddesses. It's like being drawn away from the ice cream truck in favor of the candy store. It's all a matter of what is right for one.

I do agree with that. Whatever draws us further away from God, will, as you said, draw us nearer to our own gods. So i totally agree with you there.

Thing is, as a christian, i believe there is but one true God. Yes. I do understand and know that everyone isnt of the same belief as i am, and thats perfectly fine. Just stating my stance on it.

 

[LoTrobador]

Sorcery, spells, curses, magik, fortune telling. And the bible tells us rebellion is as witchcraft. In the sense it draws us further away from God.

Thank you.

And I think you might be interested in Mysticism by Evelyn Underhill, an Anglican mystic, especially Chapter IV - The Characteristics of Mysticism and Chapter VII - Mysticism and Magic.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Because it isn't their prayer. It's much the same way that members of a certain faith will pray in front of a crucifix and say they just use it to focus on Jesus, yet if I pray in front of a statue of Anubis they try to say I am worshiping the statue.

Ooohhh. That is one thing we dont like to hear! LOL But I SOOOO agree with you there! We tell others to have no idols or graven images. But we have Jesus pics and crucifixes all over our homes and churches. Now if its on the building so that it can be identified as a church, i think its cool. But when we get to kneeling in front of it, and wearing the cross around our necks, i think we're doing the exact same thing we accuse others off. Christ is no longer on the cross. We kneel before His feet. Not what He died on

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Thank you.

And I think you might be interested in Mysticism by Evelyn Underhill, an Anglican mystic, especially Chapter IV - The Characteristics of Mysticism and Chapter VII - Mysticism and Magic.

I'll check this out. Because i seriously want to know what its all about. I do feel there's going to be a lot i'll disagree with concerning mysticism, but i do want to learn what its all about so i can have a better understanding.

Thanks.

 

[LoTrobador]

It's much the same way that members of a certain faith will pray in front of a crucifix and say they just use it to focus on Jesus, yet if I pray in front of a statue of Anubis they try to say I am worshiping the statue.

I think some Catholics could actually understand you very well.

 

[Moonstone]

While things may draw one further away from one God, they may also draw one closer to other Gods and Goddesses. It's like being drawn away from the ice cream truck in favor of the candy store. It's all a matter of what is right for one.

Very well explained!
I really don't care if the west will be ''pagan'' again. I'd say no though. I think the number of Muslims, Buddhists, and Atheists will grow the most. Just my opinion

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Ooohhh. That is one thing we dont like to hear! LOL But I SOOOO agree with you there! We tell others to have no idols or graven images. But we have Jesus pics and crucifixes all over our homes and churches. Now if its on the building so that it can be identified as a church, i think its cool. But when we get to kneeling in front of it, and wearing the cross around our necks, i think we're doing the exact same thing we accuse others off. Christ is no longer on the cross. We kneel before His feet. Not what He died on

Assume that one prayed with an object in their presence which helped them focus. Consider that many Christian churches act out the Stations of the Cross around Easter. The yard next to the church may have a nativity scene set up. There is a large cross behind the priest in a Catholic church. You may clutch a rosary while you pray. Do you consider these items and traditions to be acceptable?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Assume that one prayed with an object in their presence which helped them focus. Consider that many Christian churches act out the Stations of the Cross around Easter. The yard next to the church may have a nativity scene set up. There is a large cross behind the priest in a Catholic church. You may clutch a rosary while you pray. Do you consider these items and traditions to be acceptable?

The stations of the cross, ive only know catholics to do it. I dont mind seeing the cross in the church. Again, it identifies the edifice as a church. No idea what the rosary beads are for or symbolize. I dont really celebrate Christmas in the traditional way anyways because of the pagan roots. So no. Why cant we just focus on Christ? I think that is why we are told to go into our secret closets and go before the throne. Because we may have trouble focusing with things happening around us. So i see no need for us to focus on those things when we have Christ Himself to focus on.

 

[LoTrobador]

I'll check this out. Because i seriously want to know what its all about. I do feel there's going to be a lot i'll disagree with concerning mysticism, but i do want to learn what its all about so i can have a better understanding.

Thanks.

Well, mysticism is a very diverse phenomenon - I think you might even find that within Christian mysticism itself there are some traditions you might consider closer to your beliefs than other traditions.