Will time exist in Heaven?

[Bob Dixon]

Yeah, that is said. But that does not mean physical heaven.

Call it a bit of a stretch, but it does make a lot of sense if you use "heaven" to mean "union with God". God being "in heaven" would mean that he is in union with Himself. All this means, then, is that that line of the prayer affirms monotheism.

 

[Walkntune]

Please provide Scripture with your answer.

Well there is no scripture references but I will give my own opinion.I don't believe there are limitations and separation in Heaven and time would be a limitation and separation.
I do know some pretty freaky things are going on in quantum mechanics and if you have two entangled particles separated by any distance and change the spin on one the other is effected instantaneously.

 

[Katzpur]

Yeah, that is said. But that does not mean physical heaven.

Jacob, I would agree with you that not everything in the Bible is to be interpreted literally, but honestly, where do you draw the line? If the Bible says God is "in Heaven," why would you try to think it means something other than what it actually says? By the way, you're the first Catholic I've ever heard say that Heaven is not a physical place. Just for the heck of it, you might want to compare your answer with that of your Church's official teachings.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Jacob, I would agree with you that not everything in the Bible is to be interpreted literally, but honestly, where do you draw the line? If the Bible says God is "in Heaven," why would you try to think it means something other than what it actually says? By the way, you're the first Catholic I've ever heard say that Heaven is not a physical place. Just for the heck of it, you might want to compare your answer with that of your Church's official teachings.

Well to say Heaven is a physical place, this means we can find heaven. It is not the same physical reality as our lives are.

Here is what I have found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church

326 The Scriptural expression "heaven and earth" means all that exists, creation in its entirety. It also indicates the bond, deep within creation, that both unites heaven and earth and distinguishes the one from the other: "the earth" is the world of men, while "heaven" or "the heavens" can designate both the firmament and God's own "place" - "our Father in heaven" and consequently the "heaven" too which is eschatological glory. Finally, "heaven" refers to the saints and the "place" of the spiritual creatures, the angels, who surround God.186

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm#1024

So far, my words of what I believe do not disagree.

Now here is what is in the Catechism about Heaven in the afterlife

II. HEAVEN

1023 Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they "see him as he is," face to face:598

By virtue of our apostolic authority, we define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ's holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .) already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment - and this since the Ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven - have been, are and will be in heaven, in the heavenly Kingdom and celestial paradise with Christ, joined to the company of the holy angels. Since the Passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ, these souls have seen and do see the divine essence with an intuitive vision, and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature.599

1024 This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity - this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed - is called "heaven." Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.

1025 To live in heaven is "to be with Christ." The elect live "in Christ,"600 but they retain, or rather find, their true identity, their own name.601

For life is to be with Christ; where Christ is, there is life, there is the kingdom.602

1026 By his death and Resurrection, Jesus Christ has "opened" heaven to us. The life of the blessed consists in the full and perfect possession of the fruits of the redemption accomplished by Christ. He makes partners in his heavenly glorification those who have believed in him and remained faithful to his will. Heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ.

1027 This mystery of blessed communion with God and all who are in Christ is beyond all understanding and description. Scripture speaks of it in images: life, light, peace, wedding feast, wine of the kingdom, the Father's house, the heavenly Jerusalem, paradise: "no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him."603

1028 Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man's immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory "the beatific vision":

How great will your glory and happiness be, to be allowed to see God, to be honored with sharing the joy of salvation and eternal light with Christ your Lord and God, . . . to delight in the joy of immortality in the Kingdom of heaven with the righteous and God's friends.604

1029 In the glory of heaven the blessed continue joyfully to fulfill God's will in relation to other men and to all creation. Already they reign with Christ; with him "they shall reign for ever and ever."605

Now this does not state that we need to believe Heaven is in a physical place. Its not above the clouds, as Hell is not under the ground.

 

[JacobEzra.]

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Heaven

The location of Heaven

Where is heaven, the dwelling of God and the blessed?

Some are of opinion that heaven is everywhere, as God is everywhere. According to this view the blessed can move about freely in every part of the universe, and still remain with God and see everywhere. Everywhere, too, they remain with Christ (in His sacred Humanity) and with the saints and the angels. For, according to the advocates of this opinion, the spatial distances of this world must no longer impede the mutual intercourse of blessed.

In general, however, theologians deem more appropriate that there should be a special and glorious abode, in which the blessed have their peculiar home and where they usually abide, even though they be free to go about in this world. For the surroundings in the midst of which the blessed have their dwelling must be in accordance with their happy state; and the internal union of charity which joins them in affection must find its outward expression in community of habitation. At the end of the world, the earth together with the celestial bodies will be gloriously transformed into a part of the dwelling-place of the blessed (Revelation 21). Hence there seems to be no sufficient reason for attributing a metaphorical sense to those numerous utterances of the Bible which suggest a definite dwelling-place of the blessed. Theologians, therefore, generally hold that the heaven of the blessed is a special place with definite limits. Naturally, this place is held to exist, not within the earth, but, in accordance with the expressions of Scripture, without and beyond its limits. All further details regarding its locality are quite uncertain. The Church has decided nothing on this subject.

 

[Katzpur]

Well to say Heaven is a physical place, this means we can find heaven. It is not the same physical reality as our lives are.

I'd have to disagree. I think it's entirely possible for Heaven to be a real place and yet exist outside of the realm we know. As a matter of fact, I don't believe Heaven will ever be found by scientists, but I do believe it exists physically.

Now here is what is in the Catechism about Heaven in the afterlife.

Okay. You should know.

Now this does not state that we need to believe Heaven is in a physical place. Its not above the clouds, as Hell is not under the ground.

You don't need to believe anything you don't want to believe, but since we're not specifically given much information to go on, I'd say that we're both justified in our own understandings. Obviously, you have your reasons for believing as you do, as I do. But when Christ's Apostles watched as He ascended into Heaven, they did see Him rise upward into the sky. He did not simply disappear from in front of their eyes.

 

[Bob Dixon]

Guys.

GUYS!

GUUUUUYS!

The Kingdom is within you.

 

[JacobEzra.]

I'd have to disagree. I think it's entirely possible for Heaven to be a real place and yet exist outside of the realm we know. As a matter of fact, I don't believe Heaven will ever be found by scientists, but I do believe it exists physically.

I believe its a real place to. Just not a physical realm with physical things. I believe its purely spiritual.

That is why I find it hard to seriously think about heaven and how it will be. Since we can only think in a physical matter, while the spiritual is so much more. Not bounded to time and space.

Okay. You should know.

......Know what?

You don't need to believe anything you don't want to believe, but since we're not specifically given much information to go on, I'd say that we're both justified in our own understandings. Obviously, you have your reasons for believing as you do, as I do. But when Christ's Apostles watched as He ascended into Heaven, they did see Him rise upward into the sky. He did not simply disappear from in front of their eyes.

Well I can agree to disagree.

In scripture about the Ascension;
Mark 16

[19] And the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God.

Luke 24

[51] And it came to pass, whilst he blessed them, he departed from them, and was carried up to heaven.

Acts 1

[9] And when he had said these things, while they looked on, he was raised up: and a cloud received him out of their sight. [10] And while they were beholding him going up to heaven, behold two men stood by them in white garments.

Now it can be taken either way. He went up into the sky and kept going until he reached a physical place, Heaven. Or that he went up into the sky and then crossed the realm, back into the realm of the dead. It wouldn't be the first time, since just 40 days before this, he had went and came back from the realm of the dead, his glorious resurrection.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Guys.

GUYS!

GUUUUUYS!

The Kingdom is within you.

As in heaven is within us?

 

[JacobEzra.]

Call it a bit of a stretch, but it does make a lot of sense if you use "heaven" to mean "union with God". God being "in heaven" would mean that he is in union with Himself. All this means, then, is that that line of the prayer affirms monotheism.

I think, being in heaven is the closest communion with God. But I do not think I agree with heaven itself as being union with God.

 

[Bob Dixon]

As in heaven is within us?

There are scholars who draw no distinction between "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven".

Me, I prefer not to focus on the afterlife too much. It's just another veil between you and God.

 

[JacobEzra.]

There are scholars who draw no distinction between "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven".

Me, I prefer not to focus on the afterlife too much. It's just another veil between you and God.

I don't worry about the afterlife. I mean I think about it at times, and wonder about it. But the more important issue is incorporating Christianity and Christ into your life.

Though the point of the discussion is heaven....

Do you find a difference in the words "Kingdom of God" and Kingdom of Heaven"?

 

[Katzpur]

I believe its a real place to. Just not a physical realm with physical things. I believe its purely spiritual.

I guess I'm just not understanding you. How can it be a real place but purely spiritual? I mean, I don't get what you mean by that. For instance, do you believe you'll be able to see Jesus Christ, look into His eyes, and thank Him for His sacrifice, or that you'll just somehow feel a sense of peace that would indicate His presence nearby?

......Know what?

What the Catholic Church teaches, and whether your personal beliefs are in line with your Church's doctrine. If you say they (your own beliefs) are, then I believe you.

Now it can be taken either way. He went up into the sky and kept going until he reached a physical place, Heaven. Or that he went up into the sky and then crossed the realm, back into the realm of the dead. It wouldn't be the first time, since just 40 days before this, he had went and came back from the realm of the dead, his glorious resurrection.

Okay.

 

[Bob Dixon]

Do you find a difference in the words "Kingdom of God" and Kingdom of Heaven"?

My beliefs are somewhat heterodox, so don't get too hung up on them but...

I think they're the same. I draw no distinction between the terms. It's just a state that we can bring ourselves into right here, right now by following the teachings of the Christ. "Kingdom of God/Heaven" has nothing to do with the afterlife. In fact, I'd draw a parallel between it and the dharmic concept of enlightenment/awakening.

 

[SCHIZO]

Just my humble opinion, NO......no Clocks.....no calendars.
I don't see how you can account for time when everyting is forever,
endless, never ending, no nights, no appointments to keep, infinity. Have you ever tryid to wrap your mind around the word endless? It is mind boggling. Fun to try and imagine.

If I can get from point A to point B there must be a passage of time. Forever just includes all-time. We're not going to be in stasis or at rest with the things that surround us in Heaven. The movement of life requires the passage of time. Speaking requires a passage of time. Change requires a passage of time.