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Wine really the blood. Bread really the body

Me Myself

Back to my username
Mmmm wafers? :drool: Well I think perhaps "cannibalistic" is a bit much, perhaps "symbolically cannibalistic" if you're really intent on using that term.

To say it is only "symbolicaly" canibalistic would be accurate for those who think it is only a symbolic. For those who think it is real, like me, it would be a complete lack of definition of what canibalism means to think it wouldn´t be so.
 

blackout

Violet.
RC doctrine teaches that the 'eucharist' is
the body, blood, soul, and divinity
of jesus.

Jesus doesn't die though when you swallow him whole and alive
(according to catholic teaching),
so it certainly isn't your ordinary cannibalism.

:cover::areyoucra
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
RC doctrine teaches that the 'eucharist' is
the body, blood, soul, and divinity
of jesus.

Jesus doesn't die though when you swallow him whole and alive
(according to catholic teaching),
so it certainly isn't your ordinary cannibalism.

:cover::areyoucra

The Eucharisty:

Not your ordinary cannibalism.

I like it! :D
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
To say it is only "symbolicaly" canibalistic would be accurate for those who think it is only a symbolic. For those who think it is real, like me, it would be a complete lack of definition of what canibalism means to think it wouldn´t be so.

For once, I agree completely with Me Myself. (How's that for a surprise, MM? There's actually something you've said that I agree is true. :D)

Mmmm wafers? :drool: Well I think perhaps "cannibalistic" is a bit much, perhaps "symbolically cannibalistic" if you're really intent on using that term.


How is it not a form of cannibalism when there's nothing symbolic about transubstantiation? Catholics are instructed, as I said previously, that they must believe the priest's words change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus.


They are eating Jesus' body and drinking his blood essentially when taking communion in both forms...cannibalism.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
For once, I agree completely with Me Myself. (How's that for a surprise, MM? There's actually something you've said that I agree is true. :D)

I am only surprised that you didn´t say that if I think that the bread can literaly become flesh in such a ritual then it would be a complete lack of definition of both bread AND flesh :D
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
Hey, I grew up Catholic. I know how the idea works in Catholicism and how very weird it seems to non-Catholics that Catholics believe the bread and wine ARE the body and blood of Jesus.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
How is it not a form of cannibalism when there's nothing symbolic about transubstantiation? Catholics are instructed, as I said previously, that they must believe the priest's words change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus.


They are eating Jesus' body and drinking his blood essentially when taking communion in both forms...cannibalism.

Yeah, that is a little weird.
 
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Vultar

Active Member
The whole process is simply part of he general "brainwashing" aspect of the mass. If you ever go to one of the masses and listen to the process (not worry about what is said). You will note it has the priest saying something, the congregation answering with something, the priest saying something else, the congregation answering and so on. Subtle basic brainwashing technique. The communion is then just something to set the people apart from others and serves to reinforce what the priest has brainwashed into them.

Sort of like how the Nazi's reinforced the superiority of their race by making people believe it was better then all the other races or how other religions reinforce their message by whatever ritual they have.

What is the easiest way to brainwash a person... repetition. Just read how the different dogmas are written, they will repeat the same things over and over again (often saying the same thing just a slightly different way). It is much like a form of hypnosis (which also uses repetition to gain the desired effect)

______________________

Disclaimer: I don't expect anyone to believe what I write.... I'm just a messenger.... :D
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The whole process is simply part of he general "brainwashing" aspect of the mass. If you ever go to one of the masses and listen to the process (not worry about what is said). You will note it has the priest saying something, the congregation answering with something, the priest saying something else, the congregation answering and so on. Subtle basic brainwashing technique. The communion is then just something to set the people apart from others and serves to reinforce what the priest has brainwashed into them.

Sort of like how the Nazi's reinforced the superiority of their race by making people believe it was better then all the other races or how other religions reinforce their message by whatever ritual they have.

What is the easiest way to brainwash a person... repetition. Just read how the different dogmas are written, they will repeat the same things over and over again (often saying the same thing just a slightly different way). It is much like a form of hypnosis (which also uses repetition to gain the desired effect)

Not to mention that 'reading your own Bible' was traditionally frowned upon by some church denominations :D Another aspect of brainwashing technique it would seem.
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
The whole process is simply part of he general "brainwashing" aspect of the mass. If you ever go to one of the masses and listen to the process (not worry about what is said). You will note it has the priest saying something, the congregation answering with something, the priest saying something else, the congregation answering and so on. Subtle basic brainwashing technique. The communion is then just something to set the people apart from others and serves to reinforce what the priest has brainwashed into them.

Sort of like how the Nazi's reinforced the superiority of their race by making people believe it was better then all the other races or how other religions reinforce their message by whatever ritual they have.

What is the easiest way to brainwash a person... repetition. Just read how the different dogmas are written, they will repeat the same things over and over again (often saying the same thing just a slightly different way). It is much like a form of hypnosis (which also uses repetition to gain the desired effect)

Good points. The whole system of "This is what you MUST believe" is in fact reinforced by repetition of the beliefs, I agree. It truly is a very subtle, skillfully used form of brainwashing all in all.

However, there's also the factor I've mentioned elsewhere--that a Catholic simply cannot say outright that s/he doesn't believe the bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus, that everyone knows that doesn't really happen, that they know they're all just forced to pretend they think it does happen.

You probably won't be excommunicated for saying that you don't believe that a few times as long as you are "only expressing doubt. We all sometimes doubt things we know we must believe." Instead, pressure will be put upon you to shut up about that, and you'll eventually be threatened with excommunication if you keep saying you don't believe it.
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
Not to mention that 'reading your own Bible' was traditionally frowned upon by some church denominations :D Another aspect of brainwashing technique it would seem.

Actually, reading the Bible once most people became literate was never really frowned upon by the Roman Catholic Church. People were welcome to do so and sometimes encouraged to. There just wasn't as much encouragement to read and study the Bible as there is in most Protestant churches. Most Catholics thought they got enough of the Bible from the passages read during the Mass. Besides, they were told what else the church taught that they must believe, so why bother reading the Bible?

What they were not permitted to do was to think very much about what it actually said in many places and that sometimes the church's teachings didn't exactly reflect what was said in its Bible.

A Catholic is supposed to believe fervently both what is said in the Bible without questioning it and to do the same with whatever else they're told the church hierarchy says they must believe. That's where the convenient dogma about papal infallibility comes into play--If it's something that is declared to be the Pope speaking infallibly, then Catholics absolutely must believe it as if it came directly from God. It must be believed that the Pope speaks for God when he proclaims whatever it is to be an infallible teaching.

It's a very intricate system that works to coerce Catholics into going along with whatever they're told a "good Catholic" believes, because of course, you want to be a good Catholic.
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
Wine the literal blood and bread the literal body?
No and No.

Of course not if you're not a Catholic, and you must not be since you say "No and no." A Catholic might think the same as you do privately but would hesitate to say what they think for the reasons I mentioned.
 

blackout

Violet.
Of course not if you're not a Catholic, and you must not be since you say "No and no." A Catholic might think the same as you do privately but would hesitate to say what they think for the reasons I mentioned.

A fair number of catholics, while still in the RC minority, really do believe this,
and it is a very devout experience for them.

They believe that the entirety of the living person/being of Jesus
is present in them-literally.

I know this from personal experience.
 

Corkscrew

I'm ready to believe
No, no. There is no need for any transformation. You see, Jesus’ flesh and blood actually consisted of bread and wine.
 

vepurusg

Member
It's clear to me that this means that Jesus was made out of bread and wine. Maybe kin to a gingerbread man, sans ginger.


EDIT:

No, no. There is no need for any transformation. You see, Jesus’ flesh and blood actually consisted of bread and wine.

Blast! Somebody got there before I did.
 
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Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
When Jesus told the disciples that the bread and wine were His body and blood, many of them couldn't accept that teaching, and left His side. Jesus didn't try to stop them. He didn't holler, "Hey, wait a minute - I was just kidding! It's not REALLY my Body and my Blood!" He said, "This is too hard for some people to accept," and He let them go.
 

Corkscrew

I'm ready to believe
It's clear to me that this means that Jesus was made out of bread and wine. Maybe kin to a gingerbread man, sans ginger.


EDIT:



Blast! Somebody got there before I did.

Yes, but the gingerbread man reference you made is a very nice touch.
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
A fair number of catholics, while still in the RC minority, really do believe this,
and it is a very devout experience for them.

They believe that the entirety of the living person/being of Jesus
is present in them-literally.

I know this from personal experience.

You're mistaken in saying that Catholics who believe the bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Jesus are in any minority.

The very silent minority would be Catholics who don't believe that happens...if they're smart and want to remain Catholics, they'll be silent about it.

Catholics MUST believe that the transformation occurs or they're not sincere Catholics.

Maybe you think "minority" means all or most?
 
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