Winston Churchill was a monster

[columbus]

Who advocated squat? I said the article was poorly written propaganda designed to be revisionist history. Churchill's actions led to the defeat of Nazi Germany

You did.
Mazdaians thread is about Churchill's attitude towards the people who England had subjugated in their empire.
You changed it to him saving the Western world from Hitler. I understand that is more important to you. But it is not the whole story.
Tom

 

[Wirey]

You did.
Mazdaians thread is about Churchill's attitude towards the people who England had subjugated in their empire.
You changed it to him saving the Western world from Hitler. I understand that is more important to you. But it is not the whole story.
Tom

My point (I have to learn how to say this properly) is that the article is filled with deliberate inaccuracies, designed to make Churchill appear as he was not. I like beer. That does not make me a raging violent alcoholic, although if you word it properly, you can make it seem that way, slurred Wirey as he kicked a kitten. Like that. The article is about 15% true, and 85% vituperative screeching.

 

[YmirGF]

He was not a great peacetime leader and he held many views that are now completely unacceptable, they were common views of the time though. These views shouldn't be ignored but you also can't try to evaluate them using contemporary morality. Almost every great historical leader held views that we would now find contemptible. Anyone have any examples of people who didn't?

Exactly, Churchill was pretty well run out of politics, his career in a shambles, until Neville Chamberlain failed so utterly and completely. The British leadership saw the Churchill had always been right about Hitler so the went to him on bended knee. After the war was over, Brits didn't waste a lot of time removing him from office and he became the leader of the opposition... only to become PM again after cooling his jets for a few years.

 

[YmirGF]

My point (I have to learn how to say this properly) is that the article is filled with deliberate inaccuracies, designed to make Churchill appear as he was not. I like beer. That does not make me a raging violent alcoholic, although if you word it properly, you can make it seem that way, slurred Wirey as he kicked a kitten. Like that. The article is about 15% true, and 85% vituperative screeching.

That and have a look at the other "articles" on that looney site. They certainly fit a narrative.

 

[Wirey]

That and have a look at the other :"articles" on that looney site. They certainly fit a narrative.

No, no, Gandhi really did eat puppies. And Lady Di really did invented AIDS, as she sneered at all the young men she planned to deflower.

 

[Flankerl]

The man who stopped Hitler

"Churchill" is not how you spell Zhukov.

 

[Wirey]

I'll give you that one. Where would Zhukov have been without Lend Lease?

 

[Flankerl]

Where would Churchill be without Zhukov binding almost the entire Wehrmacht?

Correct on a ship en route to Canada.

Lend lease helped to ease the burden on the USSR, but in the end they would have won either way.

 

[Wirey]

Where would Churchill be without Zhukov binding almost the entire Wehrmacht?

Correct on a ship en route to Canada.

Lend lease helped to ease the burden on the USSR, but in the end they would have won either way.

Most histories I've read tend to think with a conquered or non-belligerent Britain, Stalin would have sued for peace. The idea of a second front played heavily in his decision to keep fighting, and the material supplied via Lend Lease helped turn the tide. But, yes, the Russians carried the bulk of the fighting in Europe.

 

[Sapiens]

There are many who deserve credit, one not yet mentioned is "Old Man Winter."

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Now that is some revisionist history! The man who stopped Hitler was the monster! Made me laugh!

Sorry he did not stop Hitler. It was Stalin.

 

[leibowde84]

It's revisionist if it disagrees with you. How cute.

He didn't stop Hitler, Stalin did. To be honest, aside from acting as a land base for the Americans to invade Europe I don't see what else Britain really did to contribute to WW2.

I would take a minute to study up on history before making extremely ignorant statements. While WWII wouldn't have been won without the Russians, the same can certainly be said about the British. But, I'll give you a chance for you to study up on WWII history and the amazing things that Churchill did to win the war before I discuss this with you. I am not as good as other historians are at teaching it.

 

[FTNZ]

The facts are the facts. If you choose to forgive actions because the politics of the day condoned them, that's up to you.
The golden rule was not unknown in Churchill's time, and, in my opinion, "master race" nationalism was just as wrong in the UK as it was in Germany. Why condemn one advocate and praise another?

Because the difference in the body count is rather large?

 

[Nietzsche]

Churchill was undoubtedly an utter dick, and was until the late 30s an out-and-out Fascist sympathizer. HOWEVER, when your opposition is Adolf F*cking Hitler, short of beating babies to death with puppies & kittens it's hard to be the bad guy.

 

[Nietzsche]

The facts are the facts. If you choose to forgive actions because the politics of the day condoned them, that's up to you.
The golden rule was not unknown in Churchill's time, and, in my opinion, "master race" nationalism was just as wrong in the UK as it was in Germany. Why condemn one advocate and praise another?

Because there is a massive chasm between "I hate *insert races here*" and "Let's kill all the *insert races here*".

 

[FTNZ]

Sorry he did not stop Hitler. It was Stalin.

Clearly, more than one person stopped Hitler. Churchill defended his country, and as someone living in a country that was very closely linked to the UK at the time, I'm extremely relieved that he did. Plenty of New Zealanders took part in this as well.

 

[FTNZ]

Churchill was undoubtedly an utter dick, and was until the late 30s an out-and-out Fascist sympathizer. HOWEVER, when your opposition is Adolf F*cking Hitler, short of beating babies to death with puppies & kittens it's hard to be the bad guy.

Indeed. We need to remember the context.

 

[FTNZ]

The facts are the facts, just because you don't like your worldview being challenged doesn't mean Churchill didn't orchestrate mass killings and participate in allowing a famine in India which killed 3 million people.

Hitler killed 6 million Jews and it's an atrocity, but Churchill kills 3 million Indians and it's okay?

Sounds like good ol' racism to me.

Where was the UK expected to get this famine-relieving food supply from? They were on their knees themselves. Food was being shipped to the UK from NZ and Australia under Royal Navy escort.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Clearly, more than one person stopped Hitler. Churchill defended his country, and as someone living in a country that was very closely linked to the UK at the time, I'm extremely relieved that he did. Plenty of New Zealanders took part in this as well.

The most job was done by Stalin though. 3million germany soldier perishing in Russia should not be taken lightly.

 

[Sapiens]

It's revisionist if it disagrees with you. How cute.

He didn't stop Hitler, Stalin did. To be honest, aside from acting as a land base for the Americans to invade Europe I don't see what else Britain really did to contribute to WW2.

The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the World War by their prowess and by their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day, but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aim their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often with serious loss, with deliberate, careful discrimination, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers who will play an invaluable part in the case of invasion and whose unflinching zeal it has been necessary in the meanwhile on numerous occasions to restrain…