Witches and witchcraft

[oldbadger]

The story of the woman in Endor is in first Samuel 28. hyperlink >>> sefaria.org - I Samuel 28:12

View attachment 29539

It seems consensus among Jewish commentators is that Saul went to a necromancer, but that the communication with Samuel was not the result of necromancy. The commentators focus on the "shriek", that it was a "divine being", and that it was "coming up".

The reasons that this is not necromancy are complicated, and many will likely see these reasons as loopholes and excuses. But, it seems that:

this specific situation does not indicate that there is a miss-translation in the law in the OT.

That reads like a political response to body-swerve away from an embarrassing proposal.

 

[dybmh]

That reads like a political response to body-swerve away from an embarrassing proposal.

Yup...

Could have been worse...

What if the consensus was: "When the king does it, it's not illegal"?

 

[oldbadger]

Yup...

Could have been worse...

What if the consensus was: "When the king does it, it's not illegal"?

What...... the sort of 'Power Corrupts' thing?
Well......... yesssss...... and David did put folks in the front line of battle in the hopes of being able to comfort their widows. Stuff like that.

Of course, Jesus being a Nagara/Tecton, both words also meaning Magi, and being able to carry out unusual things, he wouldn't have lasted long if they were killing off witches, back in the day.

 

[stvdv]

and why couldn't God give insight to a Witch or Fortune Teller and etc.? why would God limit his divine insight only to certain people.

I think it is even the opposite, God will "grant His Boons" especially to Witches or Fortune Tellers, because God is known to be "non judgmental" (at least my God) ... Love is the greatest Commandment ... so also "unconditional Love". My Master told me "if you need God then He will be there". Most people rely on worldly Masters (doctors, lawyers etc), Witches and Fortune Tellers rely on something beyond the worldly, so logically they "get help" from "the beyond"

I spend 10 years in India with a Master learning about Sanatana Dharma. One of the first things you read is, that Shiva grants Boons without judgment. The worst of demons get the best of Boons if they pray hard enough. God shows us by example "do not judge" which is taught also in the Bible, but which is interpreted by Christians as something "do not judge except everything that is non-Christian" ... I tried very hard but could not find the additional words in the Bible, so I guess it's is just "Christian imagination" ... they are free to "imagine", but if they want to follow Jesus this seems a big discrepancy to me.

In short: God grants insights to all. Christians are free to believe whatever they want, but they should not "judgmentally" impose this on others

 

[dybmh]

What...... the sort of 'Power Corrupts' thing?
Well......... yesssss...... and David did put folks in the front line of battle in the hopes of being able to comfort their widows. Stuff like that.

Of course, Jesus being a Nagara/Tecton, both words also meaning Magi, and being able to carry out unusual things, he wouldn't have lasted long if they were killing off witches, back in the day.

It's food for thought for sure.

 

[stvdv]

and why couldn't God give insight to a Witch or Fortune Teller and etc.? why would God limit his divine insight only to certain people.

The Indian "Aghories" look scary but they are feared even more, because God grants them many Boons ... I guess God must Love them

 

[stvdv]

Thanks a lot that makes a whole lot of sense,you are the 1st one that actually answered my question.

In below thought of today my Master explains who to win God's Grace
Sai Inspires from Prasanthi Nilayam - October 16, 2016

Witches have been portrayed by the Church as "very bad" and the irony is the the Church acted "very violent" to them
So I would ask these Christians "tell me who is the real samaritan here" ... definitely not the "Pope and his bandits"

Knowing the above "works of the Pope/Church" my guess is that God did not grant His Grace to the Pope
"God" did grant the Pope lots of money, I have to admit ... but maybe money is the "Anti Christ" the Pope fears so much
(talking about money gained by instilling fears in people; paying "indulgence" in the past and even nowadays collecting money every sermon)
(The Church I went to explicitly said "God gave you so much, now you have a chance to repay God by giving money to the Church ... bribing?!)

 

[We Never Know]

What does the bible and it's followers have against Witches and Witchcraft,I'm looking for real and real convincing reasons?

Why are warlocks always overlooked?
Are they not as powerful as witches?
Is it a sex discrimination act?
Are they seen as more myth than a witch?

What's the reason

 

[stvdv]

Why are warlocks always overlooked?
Are that not as powerful as witches?
Is it a sex discrimination act?
Are they seen as more myth than a witch?

What's the reason

The Pope, Christianity, Bible created "male God" + "male Pope" + "male Bishops" + "male ..."
The female is depicted as useful to create "preferably male" progeny
So yes, there might be a tiny "discrimination" in the Church etc.

In Holland we used to have sweets called (translated) "negro kiss"
I always thought it was meaning "negros are good kissers"
But others with a wharped mind found it discrimination
Of course they have been banned now and are called "sweet kiss"

Maybe in the near future the Church is banned because of discrimination
(Jesus is the only way is "big time discrimination" ... most Christians entertain this in thought, word, deed)

 

[We Never Know]

The Pope, Christianity, Bible created "male God" + "male Pope" + "male Bishops" + "male ..."
The female is depicted as useful to create "preferably male" progeny
So yes, there might be a tiny "discrimination" in the Church etc.

And what does that have to do with warlocks? If anything that's against females. Who assigned god a sex?

 

[stvdv]

And what does that have to do with warlocks? If anything that's against females. Who assigned god a sex?

And what does that have to do with warlocks?
I see humans ... I see no need to put them in boxes

Who assigned god a sex?
Humans.
As I said: The Pope, Christianity, Bible created "male God"
But other humans have done before/since the same of course

 

[Hildeburh]

Why are warlocks always overlooked?
Are they not as powerful as witches?
Is it a sex discrimination act?
Are they seen as more myth than a witch?

What's the reason

Old English has a word for male and female practitioners of witchcraft: wicce=female witch, wicca=male witch. Both are equally attested in Old English (OE).

The etymology of warlock, from OE wærloga, in essence in OE it has nothing to do with male witch; it means traitor, lair, deceiver, breaker of a covenant and enemy. Here is the definition on Etymology Online

warlock | Origin and meaning of warlock by Online Etymology Dictionary

In OE it is used to describe one had broken the Covenant of God, one who worships Satan and his fallen angels. For example the tribes of Cain are called wærlogan.

Historically it is very hard to pin down when this word became glossed with male witch/witchcraft it is most likely a modern English/ Scottish gloss. For most of the words history it has been an insult.

It is not a word widely used by modern witches.

 

[sooda]

Old English has a word for male and female practitioners of witchcraft: wicce=female witch, wicca=male witch. Both are equally attested in Old English (OE).

The etymology of warlock, from OE wærloga, in essence in OE it has nothing to do with male witch; it means traitor, lair, deceiver, breaker of a covenant and enemy. Here is the definition on Etymology Online

warlock | Origin and meaning of warlock by Online Etymology Dictionary

In OE it is used to describe one had broken the Covenant of God, one who worships Satan and his fallen angels. For example the tribes of Cain are called wærlogan.

Historically it is very hard to pin down when this word became glossed with male witch/witchcraft it is most likely a modern English/ Scottish gloss. For most of the words history it has been an insult.

It is not a word widely used by modern witches.

Lewis Van Der Carr was a warlock in the Tampa area for years. Didn't have anything to do with "satan"... more like naturalism or the "old religion".

 

[tayla]

my question is "Why" do they feel it's demonic and evil and leads to eternity in hell

I think this kind of idea is a response to noticing the badness of the world. It's easy to postulate a realm having evil demons doing all the bad stuff. Then it's easy to conclude that if you are bad, you will end up like them.

 

[tayla]

do you consider yourself a witch?

No

 

[tayla]

Wicca is the religion,to be a witch doesn't mean you have to be Wicca,and practicing Wicca doesn't mean you are a witch.

In my view, revealed religions and revealed spiritual paths are untrustworthy sources of knowledge and truth. I would guess that Wicca contains claims revealed to them from some wise person of the past. But these should be assessed using philosophy.

 

[RedDragon94]

What does the bible and it's followers have against Witches and Witchcraft,I'm looking for real and real convincing reasons?

Occult wisdom. They hate for people to be in control of themselves. Not that I'm a witch or anything.

 

[Orbit]

yes they are that is why I ask why than in the bible it's witchcraft and of the devil, but in the bible prophecy is given by God and its a gift and ok??

That's your opinion and you are welcome to it. The people who wrote down that oral tradition would disagree with you.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Yep, as a LEO I met at least three. As a university student I attended a black mass conducted by two of them. You have no clue.

lol

 

[EtuMalku]

That is total bull. I can give you a reading list that disproves this.
This is part of the smear campaign initiated by the French King to justify his murder of them.
The prison in which they were held and tortured in, then killed still stands.
So too the graffiti that the knights carved into the walls, hundreds of them.
No severed heads, no Arabian magical signs.
Crosses, Crucifixes, short prayers to God, and a few depictions of the tree of life.

"Sufi Freemason exercises incorporating sounds, gestures and the mystical letters found at the beginnings of certain chapters in the Quran, all intended to perfect the soul. Wahdat-al-wujûd Arabian concept of the Alchemical Unity of Being, the perfecting of the Individual, the creation of the Philosopher's Stone. Through the doors of the Crusades and the Templars Arabic Majiq / Mysticism became known to Europe and the West. 'The' Knights Templars became influenced by the spiritual wisdom of the Moorish Sufis. Sufi alchemy is one of personal transformation, not forced by visualizations or overt intentions but rather through using the body as an alchemical instrument."
_____________________________________________________________________
Secret Practices of the Sufi Freemasons by Stephen E. Flowers, Ph.D.


"Modern scholars agree that the name of Baphomet was an Old French corruption of the name Muhammad, with the interpretation being that some of the Templars, through their long military occupation of the Outremer, had begun incorporating Islamic ideas into their belief system, and that this was seen and documented by the Inquisitors as heresy."
_____________________________________________________________________
Barber, Malcolm - The New Knighthood: A History of the Order of the Temple


"The indictment (acte d'accusation) published by the court of Rome set forth ... "that in all the provinces they had idols, that is to say, heads, some of which had three faces, others but one; sometimes, it was a human skull ... That in their assemblies, and especially in their grand chapters, they worshipped the idol as a god, as their saviour, saying that this head could save them, that it bestowed on the order all its wealth, made the trees flower, and the plants of the earth to sprout forth."
_____________________________________________________________________
Haag, Michael (2009). Templars: History and Myth: From Solomon's temple to the Freemasons.


Abu el-Atahiyya (748-c. 828), was a respected writer and mystic writer. His disciples were called Wise Ones and adopted a Goat as their Tribal symbol. The goat had a torch between the horns – which incidentally later became a symbol for the devil in Spain. The torch simply represented illumination and wisdom, that the Tribe (Goat) was the Head of Wisdom. When Freemasons traveling in the Moorish lands encountered Sufis, the mystics of Islam, they soon recognized a common bond. “Sufi-ism,” said Sir Richard Burton, was “the Eastern parent of Freemasonry.” John Porter Brown, an American diplomat in Turkey in the mid-1800s, was a Freemason who wrote sympathetically of the Sufi path. In The Darvishes, he admits finding it “rather strange that the Dervishes of the Bektashi Order consider themselves quite the same as the Freemasons, and are disposed to fraternize with them.” Brown commented on how in Turkey Freemasonry had come to be generally regarded as “atheism of the most condemnable character.” A position not unlike the one held by Papus, the celebrated French occultist and Gnostic bishop, who tried to counter the Masonic lodges which, he believed, were in the service of British imperialism and the international financial syndicates. Papus also viewed Freemasonry as a diabolical perversion of the ancient secret tradition and atheistic at heart.

Baphomet is a representative of the “Universal Principle”, the “Azoth” or “Fifth Element” which to alchemists is the key to turning lead into gold, coupled with the fact that the idol was often depicted as a goat with male and female sexual organs, might cause one to think that the Templars had somehow stumbled upon and absorbed the tenets of the cult of the she-goat Amalthea. Baphomet’s name literally means “wisdom” in Aramaic, if run through the ancient Atbash cipher that was often used by the Templars. The result is “Sophia”, which was the name used for the goddess of wisdom, who was often revered in Gnostic cults in New Testament times. It was believed in these cults that one could unite spiritually with Sophia by performing certain rites and meditations, and thus one could obtain “gnosis”, or divine knowledge.

Gnosticism was widely practiced in the Roman Empire during Christ’s time. One man widely believed to have been a Gnostic was John the Baptist, the prophet of the New Testament who announced the coming of Christ. John was, after his death, himself revered by a number of Gnostic cults. There were even, by medieval times, numerous underground “Christian” sects called “Johannites”, who believed that John was the true Messiah. Johannite cults even exist today in the form of semi-Islamic Gnostic sects found in Iraq.

During their time in the Middle East, the Templars had established and maintained contact with mystic sects belonging to different religions and denominations, including sorcerers. They were known to have close links to the hashashis (assassins) who, while influential, were regarded as a perverted sect by the Muslim population. From them, the Templars had learned some mystic teachings and barbaric strategies, as well as how to organize a sect. As will be seen in the coming chapters, the order's higher echelons, in particular, had also acquainted themselves with and incorporated into their practice—beliefs based on the mystic teachings of the Cabala, the influence of the Bogomils, and Luciferians, thus leaving Christianity behind. According to the Templars, Jesus was a god ruling in another world, with little or no power in our present one. Satan was the lord of this material world of ours.