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Without Love

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
can anything be truly great, wonderful without love as the underlying motive for a change of better?
That depends on your interpretation of what love means. For me I would say yes because as I see love, it has both good and bad features.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
can anything be truly great, wonderful without love as the underlying motive for a change of better?

happy accidents don't happen? Chaos can do great things.

Duty can do great things. Justice can do great things. Glory, Humility, teamwork, etc...

There's many great things. Love is one of them. Great things don't need love.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
happy accidents don't happen? Chaos can do great things.

Duty can do great things. Justice can do great things. Glory, Humility, teamwork, etc...

There's many great things. Love is one of them. Great things don't need love.
troubles coming......................chaos theory agrees. simply because the scope of one's observation is limited to time/space doesn't limit the enduring effect of an action. ma'at weighs the heart on the scales of time/space to determine the future. just as some will stand before the smaragdine(emerald) stone and be judged by the heart of all matters.

the book has been undone.



 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I'm talking about unconditional love for all. Not unconditional love for some
Again, it depends on the definition of love. What does unconditional love actually mean to you? Does it mean giving you all that you want? Does it mean giving you all that you need? Does it mean forgiving all transgressions? Does it mean allowing you to make mistakes so you can grow? Does it include punishment so you can learn? You can break this down further, as to what amount or type of punishment, what amount or type of mistakes, how much forgiveness, how do you determine the needs vs the wants and to what extent do you fulfill them.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
can anything be truly great, wonderful without love as the underlying motive for a change of better?
Well at least it would stop people killing each other over their girlfriends, wives, husbands and boyfriends called crimes of passion. That's one thing.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Again, it depends on the definition of love. What does unconditional love actually mean to you? Does it mean giving you all that you want? Does it mean giving you all that you need? Does it mean forgiving all transgressions? Does it mean allowing you to make mistakes so you can grow? Does it include punishment so you can learn? You can break this down further, as to what amount or type of punishment, what amount or type of mistakes, how much forgiveness, how do you determine the needs vs the wants and to what extent do you fulfill them.
unconditional love is a balance between the self and other as self, so then one doesn't have a rule for self and another as self. wearing a false face of love as the hypocrite does with conditional love
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Ma'at is nothing to me

yet moses was influenced by it and being raised in the court of the egyptians. as he was also influenced by the high priest at midian. he might have been born genetically hebrew but he was conditioned/groomed to follow the spirit of egyptian ideas, that the priests kept secret. steeped in allegory but those secrets bubble to the top the more they are suppressed.

you can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy. there is only one river of love and it flows through all cultures, races.




sometimes the best hid secrets are hid in plain view.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Love is the product of virtues. The other love is mercy. I've never met anyone who loved without reasons. Ultimately everyone pursues their own kind of love. Love has so many different meanings for different people. It's the most watered down word meaning there is.

The genuine love of virtues is the greatest form of love. That love goes out to all but the enemies of such love who reject its offer. No one can love the evil ones who want to end love of virtues.

In today's world love is highly subjective.
 

idea

Question Everything
... love of virtues is the greatest form of love. ...

I agree. Not love of things, not love of people, love of virtue.

If a person is loved, it is their virtue which is loved. If a thing is loved, it is virtue within the thing.

Loyalty, respect, and love to principles, to virtues, above all else.
 

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
yet moses was influenced by it and being raised in the court of the egyptians.

True. There are 4 possible consequences of "influence", not just for moses, but for anyone, anywhere, at any time:
  1. Acceptance
  2. Rejection
  3. Blending or balance
  4. Advancement or improvement
The influence of the egyptian culture, religion, and court could be any of the above, in any one of an infinite number of combinations and proportions. The influence is irrelevant. In this case: the outcome matters; nothing less, nothing more.

as he was also influenced by the high priest at midian.

The high priest who converted to Judaism? The one who was known later as ChoAv?, Literally meaning like a father to Moses? That means Jethro converted to Judaism. It makes perfect sense in the context of the story.

he might have been born genetically hebrew but he was conditioned/groomed to follow the spirit of egyptian ideas

Assumption. He was raised by his own mother in his formative years. When was the last time you've read this story? I read it twice each year. This isn't my first rodeo.

you can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy.

True. He kept the egyptians ways in his heart and rejected them. He saw they were hostile to his family whom he loved. Remember the story? Moses killed the egyptian task-master... then ran to midian...

Judaism is a polemic, rejection, of the egyptian religion. That can't occur without knowing it, intimately.

there is only one river of love and it flows through all cultures, races.

Dude. Of course. But, that has nothing to do with Ma'at.

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Show you love? Bro. I love you unconditionally with all my heart. And. I respect you. What more can I do? Can you say the same about me? Honestly?

sometimes the best hid secrets are hid in plain view.

I already know the secrets of love, Fool. I know them very well. I've known them for a very ling time. If you don't know this, about me, by now ... it's your loss.
 
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