Women's Dharma

[Andal]

Namaste Everyone

I wanted to start a thread to discuss the position of women in Sanatana Dharma. The laws laid out in the Manusmrti are pretty rough on females and such laws have had a great deal of influence on Hindu culture. So what do you think? Are women really lower than men? Do their periods really make them impure? Do widows really have some sort of power to contaminate? If you are a woman do you see any issues that are religious based that you disagree or agree with?

What are your thoughts??

Hari Om!

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Namaste Everyone

I wanted to start a thread to discuss the position of women in Sanatana Dharma. The laws laid out in the Manusmrti are pretty rough on females and such laws have had a great deal of influence on Hindu culture.

I do not see the Manusmrti as scripture. I looked at a book that contained 5 different smritis all of them contradicted each other on every subject. Since it was the British that rediscovered it and pushed its place of importance. I see no reason why I need to read it or follow its advice.

So what do you think? Are women really lower than men?

Hinduism has a few cultures that are matriarchal in both south India and Nepal. Its the women that are the leaders not the men.

Do their periods really make them impure?

At least one sect of Tantra rejects this view ( I have only studied one school I am sure their are more). Remember that Tantra is the only continuous faith with a book that has both female and male Gurus from Time in memorial. It is a feminist based religion. The Ramakrishna monks also reject this view.

Jai Ma ![/quote]

 

[Valjean]

Outmoded, religiously sanctioned cultural detritus.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Only the truths espoused in what are called shrutis have an abiding value in Hinduism. Smritis are temporal laws laid down by the hierarchy in society on the basis of its social organization at a particular point in history. Since most Hindus now live in India, we can say that the smriti relevant today is the Ambedkar Smriti or the Indian constitution. In it heretical under the Indian constitution to deny any rights to women.

 

[santdasji]

Manusmruti is nio for the Kaliyug.For this Yugas Smruti Yagnavalkya Smruti is held most important.

 

[zenzero]

Friend krishnakanta,

Good topic.
Personally have done very little reading.
Understanding is that enlightened people never differentiate between any dualities and the rest are perceptions of the human mind which perceives duality.

Religion is a personal journey towards enlightenment.
The ball is always in your court.
Love & rgds

 

[Don Penguinoini]

The Manusmriti is an old scripture, and it is outdated. In households (mine ) women are very powerful.

 

[santdasji]

Yes even in the Uddhav Sampraday AKA Swaminarayan Sampraday, women hold a huge role alongside men. The Swaminarayan Sampraday also holds the Yagnavalkya Smruti as uttam for following the dharmas for the Kaliyug. These dharmas are those which can be best practiced in this day and age.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

In the Rg Veda about 30 different women are said to be the seers of Hymns. This make Hinduism the only faith that has women sages that came up with their holy books.

There are two types of women talked about in the Vedas.

Girls who were given the upanayana after going to the home of their Guru and studying the vedas (E.G. Brahmavadinis )

The Girls who went straight in to marriage ( sadyovadhus ) and then had the upanayana sacrament.

Since the Vedas trumps any other Hindu scripture. Any text that limits the place of women is wrong and should be ignored.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

The rules of the samnyasin ( monks of the Sankara orders ) had to bow down to there mothers. All others even the monks father ! had to bow down to him. Why? because Mothers are raised to the staus of a Goddess and fathers are not!

 

[Tao]

Do their periods really make them impure?

As said in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, "All teachings of purity and impurity should be looked at as impure"

this is because, if your an advaita hindu, there is no dualism. so there is no pure or impure.

 

[santdasji]

If this is the case then why do you take a wash and clean you anus after a number 2? Why not remain dirty and worship God or even covered in feaces go and embrace your friends and relatives?

 

[santdasji]

Periods - the blood taken out by the body is full of toxins. Menstruation is the body cleansing itself of toxins before possible childbirth.

This is tamsic. If you read the Gita, Shri Krishna Bhagwan clearly explains that everything material is put into the three gunas of maya.Tamas, Rajas and Satva. The state of mind even is put into this order.

So the womens period makes the body and mind very tamsic. Women on the period will be more sexually aroused. This is a scientific fact. Now the Shastras state that women should not touch anything other than her own clothes and food for 3 days. To what extent this dharm is followed depends on times, action and place. Even Bhagwan Swaminarayan states this.

The women in the Swaminarayan Sampraday follow this dharm precribed even to this day.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Periods - the blood taken out by the body is full of toxins. Menstruation is the body cleansing itself of toxins before possible childbirth.

This is tamsic. If you read the Gita, Shri Krishna Bhagwan clearly explains that everything material is put into the three gunas of maya.Tamas, Rajas and Satva. The state of mind even is put into this order.

Sleep is also tamsic. Most of us need to do it to live. It is not inherently a sin or bad to engage in it.

So the womens period makes the body and mind very tamsic. Women on the period will be more sexually aroused. This is a scientific fact.

This is false, one study shows that women increase their sexual desire and activity by 25 percent during a three-day period around ovulation.

Now the Shastras state that women should not touch anything other than her own clothes and food for 3 days. To what extent this dharm is followed depends on times, action and place. Even Bhagwan Swaminarayan states this.

So a women can't work out ot the house ? What job could a women hold. Some women have a period for 5 days. They could not even go to school and keep there grades up! This seems like Fundamentalism to me. My sampraday don't follow these rules.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

If this is the case then why do you take a wash and clean you anus after a number 2? Why not remain dirty and worship God or even covered in feaces go and embrace your friends and relatives?

Think about what you are saying. If I was in a bad accident and I needed a colostomy bag I could never do puja again. God would find me so abhorrent that I could not go to a temple for the rest of my life ? I say this God is a Ashura. How could he hate his devotees like that.

I take two showers a day ( very short not to waist water ). I would not do puja, cook or eat food when I am dirty in any way. This is a spiritual discipline, that is all. It is to remind me that I need to be clean inside and out. The rules are to remind us of the truth they are not the truth it self.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

As said in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, "All teachings of purity and impurity should be looked at as impure"

this is because, if your an advaita hindu, there is no dualism. so there is no pure or impure.

This is true but it's to high of a state of mind for folks like myself. You must directly perceive all as God. Most of us need to follow the pure so we can break down the ego. Then when we go beyond the pairs of opposites once we are steeped in God the whole cosmos becomes God:

-There is no pure and impure.
-Good or bad.
-Dharma or Adarma.

There is just all Truth Consciousness and Bliss.

 

[Andal]

Namaste

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts so far. I apologize about the slow reply, I'm out of the country right now and my internet is kind of sketchy.

On one note, perhaps I'm not such a good feminist because I do not do Puja or touch puja instruments when on my period but I still go to temple. I don't necessarialy believe that I am spiritual unclean but it's more of a spiritual disciplin for me. Out side of the puja room though, I don't see a problem with preparing food and touching things.

I agree about the Tantric opinion as well Unfortunately this does not seem to be the norm in regards to cultural practice. I have heard that women aren't even allowed to read the Vedas let alone recite them. I don't know if that's true but I hope it isn't as I have started reading them.

I am curious, if there are other women here, what are your experiences and thoughts?

Hari Om!

 

[K.Venugopal]

I think in understanding Hinduism we have to understand its two most important key words - Yoga and Dharma. All Hindu teachings come interwoven with the concepts of Yoga and Dharma. Yoga leads the individual to discover his/her potential and teachings of Advaita are at the acme of Yogic understanding. Dharma is all about attaining social harmony and would naturally be full of dos and don'ts. In practice a Yogi most often wishes to live in society and therefore subjects himself to all Dharmic injunctions to ensure that he contributes to the cause of social harmony. But there are Yogis who wish to live in isolation to pursue the higher Yogas and for such a person no dharma pertains except his own unique swadharma. It was no doubt to such persons that Krishna said, "Abandon all Dharmas and come to Me" ("come to Me" meaning - discover yourself).

I think this license to the individual to abandon all Dharma, if necessary, in the pursuit of self-discovery is given in no other religion than Hinduism.

 

[santdasji]

Sleep is also tamsic. Most of us need to do it to live. It is not inherently a sin or bad to engage in it.



This is false, one study shows that women increase their sexual desire and activity by 25 percent during a three-day period around ovulation.



So a women can't work out ot the house ? What job could a women hold. Some women have a period for 5 days. They could not even go to school and keep there grades up! This seems like Fundamentalism to me. My sampraday don't follow these rules.

Menstuation is not a sin either. I didnt state that nor did the scriptures. The women also needs to take time off to regain energy.

About the increase of sexual desire, i agree.I didnt say no.

The women can work out of the home. I didnt say no, nor do the scriptures. SHe can do her work regularly. Dont forget its according to times actions and place. The Swaminarayan Sampraday allows all these exceptions. Those who follow the dharm not not touch those who do either. The outside world who do not follow these dharmas are categorised as rajasic or tamsic anyway. So the women go out and work and do their regular tasks.But when the come accross another bhakt they stay away. This is not hard.

 

[zenzero]

Friend krishnakanta,

On one note, perhaps I'm not such a good feminist because I do not do Puja or touch puja instruments when on my period but I still go to temple. I don't necessarialy believe that I am spiritual unclean but it's more of a spiritual disciplin for me. Out side of the puja room [is god only inside your puja room?] though, I don't see a problem with preparing food and touching things.

Love & rgds