won't the rich enter the heaven?

[dynavert2012]

i was reading the gospel of Matthew 19 till reached the verse 20 when a young rich man was doing good deeds but he's rich and Jesus told him in order to be perfect he has to pay all of his wealth and gave it to poor and then Jesus gave a shock by saying "23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God

so is the rich won't enter the kingdom of heaven?

 

[Pegg]

i was reading the gospel of Matthew 19 till reached the verse 20 when a young rich man was doing good deeds but he's rich and Jesus told him in order to be perfect he has to pay all of his wealth and gave it to poor and then Jesus gave a shock by saying "23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God

so is the rich won't enter the kingdom of heaven?

it depends on where their heart lies. If their heart is more geared toward their riches, then no, they wont. And the reason was explained by Jesus in the following scripture:

“No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Riches.” Matthew 6:24

Jesus asked that rich man to sell his belongings and come and follow him, but that man could not part with his belongings because he was too attached to them. And this is why Jesus said it will be very difficult for a rich person to enter heaven. If they are not willing to put the love of God first in their life, they are not going to inherit life. The very first mosiac law is "you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength" If you love your riches more then God, you will end up with nothing.

 

[Gram28]

I've questioned some rich Christians on this and I've also read up on this. In North America there's a much higher incidence of rich people believing they can get into heaven. There's also the spurious practice of rich people going to minister and saying that they're the biggest donors, so you will omit the biblical teachings we don't want to hear; this selective kind of Christianity.

 

[Pegg]

I've questioned some rich Christians on this and I've also read up on this. In North America there's a much higher incidence of rich people believing they can get into heaven. There's also the spurious practice of rich people going to minister and saying that they're the biggest donors, so you will omit the biblical teachings we don't want to hear; this selective kind of Christianity.

its not about how much money you have... its about how much you 'love' the money.

Not all rich people 'love' their money more then God and not all poor people love God more then the money they dont have.


So Jesus words do not mean a person cannot be rich or have money... they just mean that a person should not 'love' their money more then God.

 

[outhouse]

I've questioned some rich Christians on this and I've also read up on this. In North America there's a much higher incidence of rich people believing they can get into heaven. There's also the spurious practice of rich people going to minister and saying that they're the biggest donors, so you will omit the biblical teachings we don't want to hear; this selective kind of Christianity.

All religions are selective.

The passage you ask about was written to and for a specific time period.

The socioeconomics of Israel was that, the Hellenistic elite controlled most of the money, the rest were your poor oppressed people.

Jesus also preached to these poor people in small villages and did not like the corruption in the Jewish government due to the Roman infection.



Taking this part out of context and trying to apply it to modern times is wrong.

 

[Shiranui117]

i was reading the gospel of Matthew 19 till reached the verse 20 when a young rich man was doing good deeds but he's rich and Jesus told him in order to be perfect he has to pay all of his wealth and gave it to poor and then Jesus gave a shock by saying "23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God

so is the rich won't enter the kingdom of heaven?

Yes. A camel had to kneel down to go through "the eye of the needle", which was supposedly a small gate at Jerusalem. In the same way, a rich man must make himself small, meek and humble before God and his brethren, not despising his brother for his poverty, but rather inviting his brother to dine together with him, and sharing what he has with those less fortunate.

 

[dust1n]

The rich run Christianity and operate it's organized existence; same for Islam. Strange that is would as difficult for them to get into heaven as a camel going through a eye of a needle. I always read that as practically impossible.

 

[outhouse]

Yes. A camel had to kneel down to go through "the eye of the needle", which was supposedly a small gate at Jerusalem. In the same way, a rich man must make himself small, meek and humble before God and his brethren, not despising his brother for his poverty, but rather inviting his brother to dine together with him, and sharing what he has with those less fortunate.

Pretty good analogy, if I do say :yes:


Reminds me of ancient churches and their doors that are 40' tall. They always have a real short door cut in them, so horses could not enter

 

[dynavert2012]

its not about how much money you have... its about how much you 'love' the money.

Not all rich people 'love' their money more then God and not all poor people love God more then the money they dont have.


So Jesus words do not mean a person cannot be rich or have money... they just mean that a person should not 'love' their money more then God.

this answer is what makes sense to me and my belief, but if we take the text literally we won't reach this meaning, as Jesus asked the guy to spend all of his money not only to dislike it

 

[Pegg]

this answer is what makes sense to me and my belief, but if we take the text literally we won't reach this meaning, as Jesus asked the guy to spend all of his money not only to dislike it

what Jesus asked the man to do was to give his belongings away, but the result of that the man 'went away grieved because he was holding many possessions'

So Jesus question really showed where the mans heart was. His heart was more attached to his belongings which is why he 'went away grieved'

Having belongings is not the problem...the problem is when we are unwilling to let go of them.

 

[Brickjectivity]

this answer is what makes sense to me and my belief, but if we take the text literally we won't reach this meaning, as Jesus asked the guy to spend all of his money not only to dislike it

Dynavert,

On this there is not a way around the literal answer. We understand all the reasons why we can't give away all of our belongings to strangers; but so did Jesus the one who dismissed these reasons. He said the love of money was the root of all kinds of evil. If I may interpret, it means factually, exactly, that Jesus wants(wanted) his church to share everything. The churches as described in Acts and the early letters all shared money in common, and so did Jesus disciples with himself. They were all in it together for better or for worse, and that was part of the yoke of being with Jesus.

Christians today have abandoned that approach to community. They deny that Jesus spoke against the love of money. Instead they pipe up with reasons that money is necessary and that they have to take care of themselves and their own. They'll tell you they don't understand what Jesus said, and then they'll forget what he said. That's the real state of the union, but its hard for any one person to change everything. Everything is all screwed up.

 

[kiwimac]

The problem is not money per se but the uses to which a person puts it and the place it has in their lives. Money and goods can be an impediment towards the good, towards the kind of society envisioned by Jesus in Matthew 25.

 

[John Martin]

According to the Bible human beings are created in the image and likeness of God. The image and likeness of God has its own dharma or nature. It is to live the life of fruitfullness and multiplication. It means to manifest the divine attributes of love and compassion in our human relationships. Symbolically we can say God is like Sun, the image and likeness of God is like Moon. The Moon receives from the Sun and gives to the earth So human nature is to receive from God and give to othe rs. The image and likeness of God is the greatest wealth human beings have because it shares in the eternity of God.In fact it is already in heaven or in God. When human beings forget this they fill their emptiness from the external riches. These external riches are artificial. These external riches cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Just at death we leave all our external riches and we cannot take things with us beyond this world so also in order to discover that we are already in God we need to free from all the attachments to the external riches. It is not necessary we need to give up external riches but there must be detachment from them. What is image and likeness of God in us is already in God.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It is not necessary we need to give up external riches but there must be detachment from them.

Hello John Martin!

I think it would be very difficult to share all property, but it seems this was what Jesus had in mind. How can he suggest that merely loving money is a source of trouble, and how can anyone not love it? Money is so useful.

 

[John Martin]

Dear Sir,
if you share your property because someone tells you to do but not without inner conviction or realization then it becomes a burden. Sharing of one's property should come from within. Let it happen naturally and spontaneously. Until that happens please have wealth as much as you wish. Bill Gates became very rich and now it seems he is using his wealth for the welfare of humanity. It is a natural transition. There is gracefulness and tremendous joy in it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

That sounds completely reasonable, but Jesus literally said the love of money was the root of all kinds of evil. There is also a huge gap here between what Christians think and what Jews and most people usually think about wealth. While Jews feel wealth is a gift and a force for good, Christians tend to mistrust wealth specifically because of these statements Jesus makes.

if you share your property because someone tells you to do but not without inner conviction or realization then it becomes a burden. Sharing of one's property should come from within.

That sounds very progressive, but we are having a biblical discussion. Jesus never said sharing comes from within. He said evil and murderous thoughts come from within.

Let it happen naturally and spontaneously. Until that happens please have wealth as much as you wish.

That is what most people think, but as Dynavert was saying you cannot come to this conclusion from what Jesus says.

Bill Gates became very rich and now it seems he is using his wealth for the welfare of humanity. It is a natural transition. There is gracefulness and tremendous joy in it.

That is reasoning according to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, where once a persons physical & emotional needs are satisfied they then are willing to share and seek self actualization.

 

[Muffled]

this answer is what makes sense to me and my belief, but if we take the text literally we won't reach this meaning, as Jesus asked the guy to spend all of his money not only to dislike it

That was a special case where the man had the auspicious opportunity to follow Jesus around physically.

It isn't a question of disliking or liking money. It is a question of loving money more than the Kingdom of God. For instance I once was looking at two jobs and one was in the south where the pay was less and another was local where the pay was more. The local one came with a Jewish boss. Jesus told me to take the local job. The reason I took the job was not for the money but so that I could serve Jesus. Certainly I liked having the money but I knew that I wouldn't last long in the job and I was right. He did everyhting in his power to get rid of me including mentioning that he had Mafia friends (by inuendo).

 

[Muffled]

Dynavert,

On this there is not a way around the literal answer. We understand all the reasons why we can't give away all of our belongings to strangers; but so did Jesus the one who dismissed these reasons. He said the love of money was the root of all kinds of evil. If I may interpret, it means factually, exactly, that Jesus wants(wanted) his church to share everything. The churches as described in Acts and the early letters all shared money in common, and so did Jesus disciples with himself. They were all in it together for better or for worse, and that was part of the yoke of being with Jesus.

Christians today have abandoned that approach to community. They deny that Jesus spoke against the love of money. Instead they pipe up with reasons that money is necessary and that they have to take care of themselves and their own. They'll tell you they don't understand what Jesus said, and then they'll forget what he said. That's the real state of the union, but its hard for any one person to change everything. Everything is all screwed up.

I believe the sahring in Acts is also a special case and not a required method. I have found that Jesus will sometimes move people to give but not on the basis of the story in Acts. For instance I once was down to my last dollar and needed gas to get to a job interview. I went to church and testified how God had faithfully provided for me in my troubles. At the end of the service someone gave me five dollars saying that Jesus told him to give it to me. That five dollars got me to my job interview and I got the job.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I believe the sahring in Acts is also a special case and not a required method. I have found that Jesus will sometimes move people to give but not on the basis of the story in Acts.

Are you referring to Ananias and Saphira who pretended to give all but withheld a portion of the price of their land? There are a couple of different stories you could be referring to.

For instance I once was down to my last dollar and needed gas to get to a job interview. I went to church and testified how God had faithfully provided for me in my troubles. At the end of the service someone gave me five dollars saying that Jesus told him to give it to me. That five dollars got me to my job interview and I got the job.

I think it is a case of "Lord I believe, but please help my unbelief." Your church helped you in spite of not, rather than because it was doing things in the prescribed way. 'Love covers a multitude of mistakes.' It does not follow that everything is going as prescribed, but love has nudged your church in this case to soften the hardship.

I realize I'm taking a hard line on something that is difficult to implement, and I don't expect you to sell all your possessions and become my personal disciple. You have to work things out with your church, obviously. If your church isn't going to support you, then you can't very well give all of your money to it. Besides you'd be very vulnerable, and church pastors are already far too powerful.

 

[John Martin]

When Jesus entered into the House of Zacheus, the tax collector, his life was transformed. The person who was hoarding money at the cost of others, suddenly offered, to give back four fold what hi might have defrauded. Zachaeus was deeply longing for God, for Truth. He was of short stature and so climbed a tree to have a look at Jesus. Their eyes met and immediately Jesus was in the house of Zachaeus.
The way our life is transformed depends on the intensity of our desire for God. In Hinduism it is called, longing for liberation. My impression was that the rich young man who met Jesus did not have such a strong urge.His life was not transformed. Jesus said, 'First of all seek you the kingdom of God and its righteousness and all things will be given to you.

Rich man not entering the Kingdom of heaven? Rich people are those who identify with their ego, an artificial entity. The ego is not created by God. It comes out of ignorance or desires against our human dignity of image and likeness of God. God created us in his own image and likeness of God. What God has created will ultimately and certainly return to God or heaven. But what God has not created can not enter into the kingdom of heaven. It may be easier for a Camel to pass through an eye of a needle than our ignorant self entering into the kingdom of heaven. The reason is it does not have a real existence. it is like a bubble on the water. Our image and likeness of God is a fullness of being and unfolds life.It does not find security in the accumulated things, even if it does have accumulated things. Our ignorant self feels empty and finds security in the accumulation of things. it is difficult for it to share the riches with others or part with the accumulated riches. Zacheus discovered his true self and unfolded his life. The rich young man was still in his ignorant self. Jesus loved him but felt sorry for him.