"Word of God" & discrepancies???

[JayHawes]

True. But my point is this. The testimony given is not a lie, the result is of the same (in the bible).

 

[Booko]

No u missed THE LEASON. Read carefully. This book tells that God killed a person for NOT bearing illigal child with wife of his brother....... Read again & u'll know.


In other words, if he would have "completed" sleeping with his brother's wife till the passage of SEED , then, according to this leason, God would be happy with him (God forbid).

It wasn't illegal, it was perfectly legal at the time, and it was his family duty. If you knew anything about how land was inherited in that culture, you would understand this better.

The story is about obedience (or lack thereof), not about fathering children or wasting sperm (sings bits from Python's "Meaning of Life"...)

Please go get yourself a Chumash somewhere and read what it has to say about this passage, from the people the text belongs to.

 

[Caina]

True. But my point is this. The testimony given is not a lie, the result is of the same (in the bible).

The testimony given in your opinion is not a lie. The results vary from person to person

 

[Booko]

what moral lesson u get.That when wife of ur brother dies without a child , then it is ur duty to impregnate his wife, otherwise u'll be sinful ?????????

Because the alternative would be to leave his brother's family, his wife and any female children, in poverty, as there was no MALE to inherit the land allotted to his deceased brother.

For God sake admit these r human additions/alterations & these CAN NOT be words of God.

The problem friend is not the contents of the text, but your lack of knowledge of the law and customs of the time when this even occured.

Muhammad said to seek knowledge, even unto China.

Time to hit the books, methinks.

 

[Booko]

u need to learn singular & pleural again.

Sorry, Benign, Jay is right on this one. Look up the definition of "legion." You'll see.

 

[Booko]

Seriously Jawhawes, why don't you form your own opinion? You seem to do alot of scripture quoting for an answer.
You have free will, why not use it rather than letting the "Word of God" do your thinking for you? Living as a robot doesn't seem very appealing to me.

Seriously, this is like asking a chemist to rely on their opinion and not consult Bielstein's Handbuch or the Journal of the Am. Chem. Society.

(I must be a robot scientist because I refer to JACS all the time rather than make my own stuff up to suit my feelings or needs of the time. Go figure.)

 

[Caina]

Seriously, this is like asking a chemist to rely on their opinion and not consult Bielstein's Handbuch or the Journal of the Am. Chem. Society.

(I must be a robot scientist because I refer to JACS all the time rather than make my own stuff up to suit my feelings or needs of the time. Go figure.)

Or like asking a cook to follow the guidlines of a recipe, but to personalize it to taste

 

[lew0049]

Not at all, details are very important more to some than others. In a police investigation small descepancies create suspiscion. And the message is dependant on the person reading it, we dont all walk away from it with the same message. And their are plenty of small problems, from simple counting to number of children, to number of witnesses, from time of day, to time of year. The message you claim it represents is not universal, this is clearly seen by the wide gap between churches and followers

I understand that; however, when these small differences have no impact on the end product then the time spent can be lost. If you are looking for the "Truth" then larger issues must be addressed first. Meaning that, it is first important to look at the big picture. Initially, I looked at the unimportant matters because it seems that human nature sways mankind to prove something wrong. Atleast this was my first response when I heard Christians referring to the Bible as amazing (when I was an atheist). But the more you apply your knowledge about ancient history and the reasons why docuements were written, the better you are able to come to a more appropriate conclusion.

 

[lew0049]

And why must you fulfill those laws? Or why do you even care to fulfill them?


Seriously Jawhawes, why don't you form your own opinion? You seem to do alot of scripture quoting for an answer.
You have free will, why not use it rather than letting the "Word of God" do your thinking for you? Living as a robot doesn't seem very appealing to me.

I didn't know free will had limitations. Have you ever thought that his free will led him to believe that the scriptures and the "Word of God" were true? And how are quoting scriptures and living as a robot similiar in any way? I have an idea - tell me what your BIGGEST problem is with the "Word of God", Resurrection, the reliability of the Bible or anything along these lines - and I will try to give you a different answer than simply quoting the scripture, and it might be something you don't know or have thought of. Who knows - my free will might enlighten you

 

[Caina]

I understand that; however, when these small differences have no impact on the end product then the time spent can be lost. If you are looking for the "Truth" then larger issues must be addressed first. Meaning that, it is first important to look at the big picture. Initially, I looked at the unimportant matters because it seems that human nature sways mankind to prove something wrong. Atleast this was my first response when I heard Christians referring to the Bible as amazing (when I was an atheist). But the more you apply your knowledge about ancient history and the reasons why docuements were written, the better you are able to come to a more appropriate conclusion.

Have no impact? Each person recieves it differently, the impact is individual. The end product is destroyed due to lack of continuity for some. And things are written for many reasons, to sway and convince and control are some of those reasons as well. There is no appropriate conclusion, only hypothisised delusion

 

[lew0049]

Have no impact? Each person recieves it differently, the impact is individual. The end product is destroyed due to lack of continuity for some. And things are written for many reasons, to sway and convince and control are some of those reasons as well. There is no appropriate conclusion, only hypothisised delusion

Okay - I was going to insert that "people view things differently, etc..." which is very true; however, even outside this discussion, the first response of so many is to try to disprove something without even looking at the product in full.
And as far as the Bible is concerned - it is truly amazing that there is such a high degree of continuity. I mean, look at the number of authors and the timeframe between such accounts.

 

[Caina]

Okay - I was going to insert that "people view things differently, etc..." which is very true; however, even outside this discussion, the first response of so many is to try to disprove something without even looking at the product in full.
And as far as the Bible is concerned - it is truly amazing that there is such a high degree of continuity. I mean, look at the number of authors and the timeframe between such accounts.

High degree? I dont see it. The number of authors grows daily and the accounts are changing even to this day. Amazing? yes it is, but not in its accuracy

 

[lew0049]

Huh? I don't see how a lack of 100% certainty regarding the author of some books increases the authors daily or how accounts change daily. Accuracy in what regard?
Give me a few examples of accuracy and I might have insight

 

[Caina]

Huh? I don't see how a lack of 100% certainty regarding the author of some books increases the authors daily or how accounts change daily. Accuracy in what regard?
Give me a few examples of accuracy and I might have insight

Everybody has some insight/excuse to justify.

"The whole earth was of one language." - 2400BCE multiple languages are evident.

Philistines didn't arrive in the region of Canaan until around 1200 BCE -- 800 years after Abraham's supposed migration from Ur.

How did the slaves of egypt build the storehouses of Ramses 300 years after they fled Egypt?

 

[JayHawes]

Everybody has some insight/excuse to justify.

"The whole earth was of one language." - 2400BCE multiple languages are evident.

Philistines didn't arrive in the region of Canaan until around 1200 BCE -- 800 years after Abraham's supposed migration from Ur.

How did the slaves of egypt build the storehouses of Ramses 300 years after they fled Egypt?

Get your facts right....

1) When the whole earth was of one language- it predates recorded history.

2) Abraham met peopleliving in the Cannan area who later became known as Philistines

3) There is more than one Ramses, which one are you referring to?

 

[Caina]

Get your facts right....

1) When the whole earth was of one language- it predates recorded history.

2) Abraham met peopleliving in the Cannan area who later became known as Philistines

3) There is more than one Ramses, which one are you referring to?

Get my facts right, your funny.
1. Gen 11. - plenty had already occured buy this time. It predates nothing but your opinion.
2. That is assumtion, but archeology does point to Philistines not being in the region until later. That is not an assumtion.
3. Exodus in suposedly 1446 B.C, Five Pharaoh's contridict the 2 of the Bible. [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Thutmose III reigned too long to be the Pharoh of the Exodus, Ex. says that all the Egyptians drowned included the Pharaoh, Thutmose reigned 53 years. Also Thutmose led his army's most successful military's victories 10 years after the Exodus. Zoan, not Pi-Rameses is the capital of Egypy in Moses day. Numbers 13:22 and Psalm 78:12,43 imply that Zoan (Tanis) was the capital of [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Egypt when the plagues fell on Egypt. Ramses II reigned too long to be the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Pharoah of Exodus must have reigned less than 10 years, Ramses II reigned 67 years. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]1 Kings 6:1 - 480 years vs 430 years in GALATIANS 3:16-17 [/FONT][/FONT]
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[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[JayHawes]

Get my facts right, your funny.
1. Gen 11. - plenty had already occured buy this time. It predates nothing but your opinion.
2. That is assumtion, but archeology does point to Philistines not being in the region until later. That is not an assumtion.
3. Exodus in suposedly 1446 B.C, Five Pharaoh's contridict the 2 of the Bible. [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Thutmose III reigned too long to be the Pharoh of the Exodus, Ex. says that all the Egyptians drowned included the Pharaoh, Thutmose reigned 53 years. Also Thutmose led his army's most successful military's victories 10 years after the Exodus. Zoan, not Pi-Rameses is the capital of Egypy in Mosesday.Numbers 13:22 and Psalm 78:12,43 imply that Zoan (Tanis) was the capital of [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Egypt when the plagues fell on Egypt. Ramses II reigned too long to be the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Pharoah of Exodus must have reigned less than 10 years, Ramses II reigned 67 years. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]1 Kings 6:1 - 480 years vs 430 years in GALATIANS 3:16-17 [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]


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1) It's not opinion. Genesis 1-11 is not recorded history outside the Bible.

2)

3) The Bible does not say that all the egyptians died but that the men of the egyptian army died...but Pharoah did not die, he continued to reign after the Exodus. i dont have time to teach you scripture, learn it first...i really dont have time to waste here with people who keep quoting things they dont really understand...:sleep:

 

[Caina]

1) It's not opinion. Genesis 1-11 is not recorded history outside the Bible.

2)

3) The Bible does not say that all the egyptians died but that the men of the egyptian army died...but Pharoah did not die, he continued to reign after the Exodus. i dont have time to teach you scripture, learn it first...i really dont have time to waste here with people who keep quoting things they dont really understand...:sleep:

How rude! Dont really understand, do you realize how many different versions say the same about each other? I know ministers that will say others dont have a clue till their blue in the face. You obviously are no different, and anything I were to say wont change your resolve or your claims to who does and does nopt understand scripture

 

[sojourner]

Benign - Do you not realize what you are doing? You are trying to find small contradictions even though there are none - and neglecting to look at the consistent messages given throughout the Bible. When two people record an event, there will be differences. If someone asked me if I went to the movies today, I could say "yes" or "yeah I went with Tom" (because Tom seemed more important to me) or "yes I went with a group of friends."
The Bible has 40 some authors spanning over a 1000 years and its truly amazing that the fundamental message is the same throughout. If you want to keep looking for small things then go for it but you are lacking perspective.

The problem is that some look at the Bible as a textbook, full of facts that God either wrote down God's self, or spoke directly into the ear of a human agent. The important thing to remember about the Bible is not the veracity of the "facts" contained in it, but that it's like a museum. The Biblical authors of the OT attempted to preserve the various traditions of oral storytelling, poetry and wisdom. The authors of the NT were hoping to preserve traditions about Jesus, and hoped to apply some theological understanding to the Biblical message, as it was seen to be revealed fully in the Christ event.

That there are discrepancies and even contradictions are a given. That there is no plausible archaeological evidence for several large Biblical events is also a given. So what? it's not about the verifiable facts, but about the tradition of God's people.

 

[Smoke]

Because the alternative would be to leave his brother's family, his wife and any female children, in poverty, as there was no MALE to inherit the land allotted to his deceased brother.

I'm pretty sure that under Jewish law daughters can inherit if there are no sons. However, a woman with no father, husband or son was left on the fringes of society, with no status.

Even in modern Western society, a widow (or a divorcée) is usually considered vaguely more respectable, and more entitled to her husband's status and assets, if she has borne his children. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard an admirer of the late Princess of Wales say, "After all, she's the mother of the future King of England!"