Word of God (John 1:1) invalid...

[Fool]

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. - John 1:1.

This is the main scripture that mainstream Christianity uses to back up their claim that Jesus is Almighty God. The second person of a Trinity. However based on much research reading the Bible and the Early Church Fathers the great scientist Sir Isaac Newton came to a conclusion that the doctrine was false. I too am very convinced that this doctrine is false, and even dangerous. I believe that it invalidates the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ and makes it of no value.

At Mark 7:13, Jesus told the religious leaders that they had made the [written] word of God void because of their traditions. I believe that the Catholic Church has made the incarnate Word of God invalid due to their traditions of using worldly philosophy to understand the relationship between God and Christ.

I am going to explain below why I come to this conclusion. First I will explain what I believe to be the correct understanding of this scripture.

The Bible makes it clear that there is only one God. (See Deuteronomy 6:4.)

Is it possible in any way that Jesus could be called God, not be a second God, and at the same time not be God Almighty?

Take a look at Exodus 7:1. There it says that Moses was made like God to Pharoh. A similar expression is found at Exodus 4:16 where he is acting as God to Aaron.

A very interesting scripture to bear in mind is found at Psalm 45:6,7- speaking of the King of ancient Israel it states:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness; You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

If the King of Israel can be called God here, could it be possible that it is in this sense that Jesus is referred to as God at John 1:1? The fact that this passage from psalms is quoted and applied to the son of God at Hebrews 1:6 strongly indicates that this is true. If an imperfect human King in ancient Israel could be referred to as God, how much more so does this title apply to God’s only begotten son, through whom he created all things. An only begotten son who perfectly represented God, his father on earth. The mediator between God and man.

This is what I understand to be the correct explaination of John 1:1.

—————————————————————————

I will now explain why I believe that the Trinitarian understanding of this scripture is dangerous.

Most people if they were asked, “Why did Jesus Christ come to the earth?” They would reply: “to save mankind.”

Romans 5:19 reiterates this where it states: “So by the one mans DISOBEDIENCE the many were made sinners, so by the one mans’s OBEDIENCE the many will be made righteous.

This scripture clearly shows that it’s by Christ’s obedience to his Father by undergoing a horrendous death on a cross that God bought back sinful alienated mankind to himself. Mankind that were sold into sin and death by Adam’s act of disobedience in the garden of Eden.

Jesus obedience is clearly shown by his willingness to do his Fathers will instead of his own will even under the harshest of circumstances. (See John 6:38 ; Matthew 26:39)

According to Christendoms Trinity doctrine, Jesus is not just the only begotten son of God who himself said “the father is greater than I.” NO! They claim that he is “GOD THE SON” second person of the Blessed Trinity, CO-EQUAL with the Father.

Christendom teaches that if the son is “Truly God!” and “Truly Man” he must also have two natures. A human nature and a divine nature. The formulation of this doctrine has led to the belief that he has two wills. A human will and a divine will.

If this is the case Jesus was Almighty God DOING HIS OWN DIVINE WILL on the cross. THAT IS NOT OBEDIENCE. God cannot be OBEDIENT TO HIMSELF! Somebody else has to PROVE their obedience to God. In this case God’s only begotten son. A perfect man without inherited imperfection from Adam. Somebody had to balance the scales. The obedience of the perfect man Jesus bought back what was lost by the disobedience of the first perfect man Adam.

Jesus said the following words as recorded at John 6:38: “I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

Even on the night before he died under extreme duress he prayed: “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.” (Matthew 26:39)

Jesus was doing his FATHERS will on the cross, not HIS OWN divine will.

Clearly the doctrine of the trinity is nothing but a load of philosophical poppycock. The Church leaders resorted to the human philosophy and empty deception of men in an effort to understand the mysteries of God rather than stick to gods word. By doing so they have made the sacrifice of the Incarnate Word invalid by means of their tradition.

the trinity is part of the original church


These [Naassenes] honour as the Logos (Reason) of all universals 4 Man, and Son of Man. This Man is male-female, and is called by them Adamas. 5 And they have many intricate 6 hymns in his honour. These hymns—to dispose of them briefly—run somewhat as follows:

J. ‘“From Thee’ [is] Father, and ‘Through Thee’ 7 Mother—the two Immortal Names, 8 Parents of Æons, O Thou who hast the Heaven for Thy City, O Man of Mighty Names.” 9



1 for, they say, he has a mental, psychic, and choïc [aspect]; 2 and they think that the Gnosis of 3 this [Man] is the beginning of the possibility of knowing God, saying:

J. The beginning of Perfection [is] the Gnosis of Man, but the Gnosis of God is perfected Perfection. 4

H. All these, he says 5—mental, psychic, and earthy—descended together into one man—Jesus, born of Mary.

And these three Men, he says, spake each from their own special essences to their own special folk.


For of the universal principles there are three kinds [or races]—the angelic, psychic, and earthy; and three churches—angelic, psychic, and earthy named the Elect, Called, and Bound.

These are the chief heads from a very large number of doctrines, 6 which, he says, James, the Brother of the Lord, handed on to Mariamnē. 7



.............

H. Following after these and such like [follies], these most wonderful “Gnostics,” discoverers of a new grammatical art, imagine that their prophet Homer showed forth these things arcanely; and, introducing those who are not initiated into the Sacred Scriptures into such notions, they make a mock of them.

And they say that he who says that all things are from One, is in error, [but] he who says they are from Three is right, and will furnish proof of the first principles [of things].

 

[Faithful Witness]

Because he represents the father he is seen as God! Just as the King of Israel was. Only Jesus in a much fuller sense. He is the one that was beside the father as a master worker.. (Proverbs 8:30). He was the perfect revelation of the Father as a human on earth. He left us a model to follow his footsteps closely. He is the mediator between God and man. The appointed King.

Moses and David represented God. They were called God in a limited sense. It’s in this sense that Jesus is called God but in a much more profound way.

 

[Faithful Witness]

Psalms 45:6
Is saying, "your throne is Elohim".
That means, your allegiance, your religious adherence, so forth, is God.

It isn't calling the man God.

But then a few verses later it says.. God, your God has anointed you..

 

[Desert Snake]

But then a few verses later it says.. God, your God has anointed you..

Yes. It is God talking, here. He is saying, 'God , thy God', referring to Himself.

The first G-d is still referring to Himself. The first G-d, isn't calling the man G-d.
It's like if it were, 'JHVH, your G-d, has ...' so forth. Means the same thing, in inference.

 

[Desert Snake]

Revelation 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[KJV]


Pretty difficult to argue, that Jesus isn't God.

In other words, all persons are called God, in the Godhood.

 

[Desert Snake]

Because he represents the father he is seen as God! Just as the King of Israel was. Only Jesus in a much fuller sense. He is the one that was beside the father as a master worker.. (Proverbs 8:30). He was the perfect revelation of the Father as a human on earth. He left us a model to follow his footsteps closely. He is the mediator between God and man. The appointed King.

Moses and David represented God. They were called God in a limited sense. It’s in this sense that Jesus is called God but in a much more profound way.

None of this is true. Moses isn't called god, it is 'like a god'. Which isn't being called God, at all. Its a description, using god as a word.

God as a name is when there is no other description. That isn't used for men, ever. In fact, if it was, you wouldn't even know it, because you wouldn't know who it was referring to.

Exodus 7:1 [word description
Revelation 1:6 [name & title.

In fact, how do you know that that verse in Revelation means Jesus? If you believe it means Jesus, then you aren't following your own argument.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Revelation 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[KJV]
Pretty difficult to argue, that Jesus isn't God.
In other words, all persons are called God, in the Godhood.

I find No mention of God's holy spirit at John 1.
I find No mention of God's spirit called God.
I find God's spirit could Not be a person because it was in a specific part according to Job 27:3.
Also, God's spirit is neuter as the word ' it ' at Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25.

If Jesus is his own Father then why does Revelation 1:5 says Jesus is first begotten from the dead because Jesus did Not resurrect himself because his God resurrected the dead Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 2:24; 2:32; 3:15; Colossians 2:12.

I was taught in high school English that the word ' and ' is a conjunction connecting something and making the ' and ' person or thing Not being the same as the other person or thing. So, to me the ' and ' at Revelation 1:6 is connecting kings ' and ' priests, but Not making the kings and priests as being the same person but showing the person is holding the same two positions as both being a king and a priest.
So, the God of Jesus is also the Father of Jesus, thus making Jesus His Son ' and ' High Priest ' and ' King 'of God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 for one-thousand years before Jesus hands back God's kingdom government to his God as per 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

None of this is true. Moses isn't called god, it is 'like a god'. Which isn't being called God, at all. Its a description, using god as a word.
God as a name is when there is no other description. That isn't used for men, ever. In fact, if it was, you wouldn't even know it, because you wouldn't know who it was referring to.
Exodus 7:1 [word description
Revelation 1:6 [name & title.
In fact, how do you know that that verse in Revelation means Jesus? If you believe it means Jesus, then you aren't following your own argument.

I was taught that God and Lord are titles and Not personal names such as the Tetragrammaton standing for a name.
I find Jesus is the one mentioned at Revelation 1:5 thus Jesus is the Jesus of Rev. 1:6.
The word father means: life giver. So the Father of Jesus was the one who gave Jesus life making Jesus as Son.
God does Not make the atonement for our sins - Leviticus 16:30 - but Jesus does - 1 John 1:7.
Moses was made god to Pharaoh as per Exodus 7:1 and god to Aaron as per Exodus 4:16.
The human judges of Psalms 82:6 were gods because they were to use God's recorded judgement to judge between what was right and what was wrong. Jesus made reference to Psalm 82 at John 10:34-35.
That does Not make any of them as God but just as being in the capacity of representing and speaking for God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Tell me this: when was Jesus begotten? Do you know? See Luke 1:35.

Before being on Earth I find at Revelation 3:14 B that the pre-human heavenly Jesus had a beginning.
Having a beginning as being the beginning of the creation by God.
Psalms 90:2 informs God had No beginning because God is from everlasting.
So, the heavenly pre-human Jesus was ' Not before the beginning ' as his God was before the beginning.

 

[The Anointed]

I think the tradition referred to is the practice dealt by Moses

Moses would lay hand upon the sinner and then upon an animal
the sin passes from one to the other

the animal is then taken to the wilderness and staked to the ground and left to die
the sin dies with the animal

I for one hesitate to affirm this can happen

I have posted on previous occasion .....
He did not die for our sins
He died because of them

After being crucified and his body laid in the bowels of the earth where it remained for three days and three nights, Jesus, 1st Peter 3: 19-21; being made dead in the flesh but alive in spirit and in this form he went and preached the Good News also to the imprisoned spirits, to those who were disobedient long ago, in the days of Noah, etc.

The imprisoned spirits, are those sons of God who had abandoned their own original habitat and descended in the days of Enoch's father Jared, and who defiled themselves with the daughters of man, and were later imprisoned until 70 generations had passed.

Crucifixion was a rite in the mysteries of many countries and especially those of Egypt, See ‘The Secret Doctrines,’ vol. 11, p. 558. The initiated adept, who had successfully passed all the trials, was tied to a cross deep inside a Temple Crypt or cave, he was then drugged and plunged into a deep sleep in which state, in the darkness of the bowels of the earth, he remained for three days and three nights, during which time his spirit=mind, is said to have descended into Hades to communicate with the Gods.

Moses, who was the adopted grandson of Pharaoh and who would have been afforded the best education in the country, may have been initiated into the circle of the guardians of the sacred secrets.

Moses took the bread or the sacred teachings of Egypt [The land of First Born] and removed the yeast and gave to the children of Israel the regulations, rules and laws, that the Israelites were to keep for all time. --------- In one of the religious regulations established by Moses, Aaron would place his hand upon the head of a scapegoat, symbolically transferring the sins of Israel to the goat, which was then sent out into the wilderness to Azazel. What or who, is this Azazel?

In the margins of the Good News Catholic Study Bible, Leviticus 16: concerning “Azazel” it is written by the Catholic authors of the GNB; ‘AZAZEL’ “The meaning of this Hebrew word is unknown: it may be the name of a desert demon.” ‘Azazel’ see Leviticus16: 8.

According to the ancient writings, it was in the days of Enoch’s Father ‘Jared’, which name means ‘Descending,’ that 200 Sons of God, who Enoch describes as watchers or rather OBSERVERS, descended and introduced into the primitive culture of mankind, technology that was about equivalent to that which had been achieved three thousand years in the future.

The Orthodox religious organisations are ignorant as to who Azazel is, because they have rejected the books of Enoch, which are the foundation stone of all scripture, and the stone that has been rejected by the builders of the universal church of Emperor Constantine has turned out to be the most important Stone of all.

The books of Enoch from which Jesus and his apostles taught, were cherished by the early Christians and were held in great reverence by many of the early church fathers, including Irenaeus, Tertullian and Origen, until the early 4th century when, under the ban of dogmatic religious authorities such as Jerome, Hillary and Augustin, they finally passed out of circulation and were thought lost for millennia.

Concerning Azazel, we read in the Book of Enoch the prophet, chapter 9 to chapter 10; “And Michael said to the heavenly Lord, "Seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and has revealed the eternal secrets which were preserved in heaven, which men were striving to learn. And Semjaza, to whom you have given authority to bear rule over his associates (The other 199 sons of God) and they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth and have slept with them and revealed to them all kinds of sin etc.

Semjaza, the leader of the observers, taught enchantments, and root cutting, among other sons of God who revealed to the women all kinds of sin, were Armaros, who taught the resolving of enchantments, Baralqual taught astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon, etc.

But Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tintures etc.

The Lord, through his only begotten prophet Enoch, then passed judgment on the angels who had forsaken their own original habitat and came down and defiled themselves with the daughters of men, saying to them; “You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew only worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth.”

They were then to be bound and cast into the valley of the earth until seventy generations had passed, (Jesus was seventy generations from Enoch, see Luke 3: 23-38) but Azazel was punished separate from the others, See the Book of Enoch the Prophet 10: 4-9; “And again the Lord said to Raphael: Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5) in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7) not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the 8) Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted 9) through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin.

The scapegoat was sent out into the wilderness to Azazel to whom all sin is to be ascribed.

 

[Thief]

interesting post you have there.

The scapegoat was......

and you believe the scapegoat trick.....with jesus in place....
works to remove your sin?

 

[Desert Snake]

I was taught that God and Lord are titles and Not personal names such as the Tetragrammaton standing for a name.

^

I find Jesus is the one mentioned at Revelation 1:5 thus Jesus is the Jesus of Rev. 1:6.
The word father means: life giver. So the Father of Jesus was the one who gave Jesus life making Jesus as Son.
God does Not make the atonement for our sins - Leviticus 16:30 - but Jesus does - 1 John 1:7.
Moses was made god to Pharaoh as per Exodus 7:1 and god to Aaron as per Exodus 4:16.
The human judges of Psalms 82:6 were gods because they were to use God's recorded judgement to judge between what was right and what was wrong. Jesus made reference to Psalm 82 at John 10:34-35.
That does Not make any of them as God but just as being in the capacity of representing and speaking for God.

You should probably stop using the name title God, to specifically refer to JHVH, then.

 

[The Anointed]

In fact, what on earth, would you interpret Genesis 1:26 as.
That isn't the Tetragrammaton.

NO! It's 'Elohim,' "Let US make man in OUR image, etc."

It was Jahel, [Lord to the glory of El] who formed the man Adam/

So...

So...?

...so? By the way, where did I mention the Spirit?



Revelation 1:6 Jesus is God, therefore resurrected Himself.



Who is....?

King of God's Kingdom. Revelation 1:6. Jesus is therefore, God, and it is His Kingdom.
Revelation 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[KJV]

☆Agreed.

☆Not according to what you stated. Note the word 'and', in the verse
Ephesians 1:3
blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
[KJV]

Note verse Ephesians 1: 2; "May God OUR Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, etc. Verse 3: Blessed be the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in verse 2 has been revealed to be OUR Father also, which supports Jesus's words to Mary Magdalene where, in John 20: 17; he says, " Go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father to my God and your God." Revealing that Jesus is not and does not claim to be God OUR Father..

 

[Desert Snake]

NO! It's 'Elohim,' "Let US make man in OUR image, etc."

It was Jahel, [Lord to the glory of El] who formed the man Adam/



Note verse Ephesians 1: 2; "May God OUR Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, etc. Verse 3: Blessed be the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, who in verse 2 has been revealed to be OUR Father also, which supports Jesus's words to Mary Magdalene where, in John 20: 17; he says, " Go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father to my God and your God." Revealing that Jesus is not and does not claim to be God OUR Father..

Great. Who is Jesus's g-d?

 

[Desert Snake]

John 20:17
John 1:18

 

[Desert Snake]

John 2:19
John 2:21
John 2:22

Anyways, Jesus clearly is referring to Himself, here.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

^
You should probably stop using the name title God, to specifically refer to JHVH, then.

I am curious as to how many people you might know that know what the Tetragrammaton is.
Whereas, most people here know when someone says God they connect that to the God of the Bible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

John 2:19
John 2:21
John 2:22
Anyways, Jesus clearly is referring to Himself, here.

and how did Jesus lay down his life and take it up again but I find by dying a faithful death.
That is why his God resurrected faithful Jesus as per Acts of the Apostles 2:24; 2:32; 3:15; 5:30; 10:40 Colossians 2:12

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Great. Who is Jesus's g-d?

The God of Jesus I find is the God of Revelation 3:12.

 

[Desert Snake]

I am curious as to how many people you might know that know what the Tetragrammaton is.
Whereas, most people here know when someone says God they connect that to the God of the Bible.

Most Trinitarians, would know what Jehovah means, though. That being said, The Tetragrammaton, or such, that would be the best, if you are using it as a name, in the context as to how you are interpreting the Bible.
So, in English, you might write Jehovah, and a Christian might not be interpreting that the same. [A Christian who uses the names Jehovah, God, Lord, so forth.

So, there really is no answer to that, as far as I can tell, where you wouldn't have to specify the Tetregrammaton, in some way, from the other names...even Jehovah.

[For clarity.


Anyways...