World population

[CaptainBritain]

There is still a plethora of arable land on this planet.

More people=more homes=less land

The land we have now will not be the land we have then,

when it hits 9 billion, there is not enough land period, its been studied out in detail, not by me but by thems that count this type of thing.

another 3 billion mouths, the same as the current populations of north america, south america, africa and europes populations needing to be fed twice instead of once, we currently fail to feed once now.

 

[Otherright]

More people=more homes=less land

The land we have now will not be the land we have then,

when it hits 9 billion, there is not enough land period, its been studied out in detail, not by me but by thems that count this type of thing.

another 3 billion mouths, the same as the current populations of north america, south america, africa and europes populations needing to be fed twice instead of once, we currently fail to feed once now.

Look, I'm not saying there is no problem. We can manage it, if we start now. The thing is, we won't.
But like I said earlier, renewable energy is the key to energy. There is plenty for the taking. There is still plenty of arable land. Build your cities up instead of out and we keep the land to farm. Build out of genetically modified bamboo. It grows in a year, its stronger than oak.

The problem with farming is our fathers and grandfathers sold our families out to greedy corporations. Now almost all the food you eat is genetically modified self-pollination seeds. Which means, you can save the seeds, but next year, you get no yield, just plants. That way you have to buy seed every year from these corporations. And the worse thing is, those who still have cross-pollinating seeds are now mutating into SP seeds. So, we are all going to starve eventually, but at least we'll have solar-powered bamboo houses.

 

[Warren Clark]

There is still a plethora of arable land on this planet.

More people=more homes=less land

The land we have now will not be the land we have then,

when it hits 9 billion, there is not enough land period, its been studied out in detail, not by me but by thems that count this type of thing.

another 3 billion mouths, the same as the current populations of north america, south america, africa and europes populations needing to be fed twice instead of once, we currently fail to feed once now.

Ironically I think we are forgetting the growing number of the homeless.
It all starts with unemployment.
As long as small businesses don't stand a chance there is nothing we can do about it.

Remember when we had candy stores, coffee shops, bars, paint shops, hardware shops, diners, local groceries, electronic stores, etc.

Yeah now we have Walmart and Target.

There used to be a greater ratio between employees and employers and businesses.
Now there are fewer businesses, fewer employers, and fewer employees.

 

[Otherright]

Oh, and also, there is a really good book I have around here on the subject of what corporate farming and genetics is doing to the food supply, if I can find it, I'll post the name of the book. But, I really don't need convincing, on that subject. I'm from Kentucky, I'm living it.

 

[CaptainBritain]

Look, I'm not saying there is no problem. We can manage it, if we start now. The thing is, we won't.
But like I said earlier, renewable energy is the key to energy. There is plenty for the taking. There is still plenty of arable land. Build your cities up instead of out and we keep the land to farm. Build out of genetically modified bamboo. It grows in a year, its stronger than oak.

The problem with farming is our fathers and grandfathers sold our families out to greedy corporations. Now almost all the food you eat is genetically modified self-pollination seeds. Which means, you can save the seeds, but next year, you get no yield, just plants. That way you have to buy seed every year from these corporations. And the worse thing is, those who still have cross-pollinating seeds are now mutating into SP seeds. So, we are all going to starve eventually, but at least we'll have solar-powered bamboo houses.

I agree, there are rays of light to be grasped at, at base level I would say that every nation needs to focus on itself, the days an englishman eats a banana will have to end, every town, county, villiage, state etc will have to make food thier priority, rip out the flower bed and plant food, plant fruit now in hedge rows and places that it can grow but crops cant, fertilizer is the biggest problem.

Artificial fertilizers keep 2 billion people alive today who would be dead without it, arable land is next useless without fertilizer to supply it, how that problem is to be fixed ive no idea, however, though it might sound unpalatable, 9 billion people produce a lot of fertilizer between them.

 

[The Wizard]

Oh, and also, there is a really good book I have around here on the subject of what corporate farming and genetics is doing to the food supply, if I can find it, I'll post the name of the book. But, I really don't need convincing, on that subject. I'm from Kentucky, I'm living it.

All my meat is local 100% natural organic. But, I bet many of my veggies aren't. Destroying mankinds ability and rights to grow all natural things and become self sufficient/independant, thus forcing them to consume frankienstein spidergoat mutant making foods is equal to the worst war or "gene- icide" known. Not much evil out there more than that. And, unfortunately, there are people trying to succeed with that,.. imo.

 

[Otherright]

All my meat is local 100% natural organic. But, I bet many of my veggies aren't. Destroying mankinds ability and rights to grow all natural things and become self sufficient/independant, thus forcing them to consume frankienstein spidergoat mutant making foods is equal to the worst war or "gene- icide" known. Not much evil out there more than that. And, unfortunately, there are people trying to succeed with that,.. imo.

Oh, they already have succeeded, and we handed it to them. Granted, I live in the populated area of Kentucky, and only about an hour from Nashville. However, as a boy, we lived both in the city and owned a farm, so I grew up in both places. My mother and step-dad, being old-fashioned, enjoyed farming.

You remember the old folks talking about walking a mile to catch the school bus. I actually did that. That's why I loved it when we stayed at the house in town. But I digress. My point was, with their love of farming, we raised everything.

We had cows, pigs, chickens. We had an acre garden. A freaking acre. Do you have any idea how big that is. We fed the whole community out of that garden. My mother would preserve food (canning, or putting up food as the old folks refer to it). We canned almost anything in the garden, except potatoes. You know you store them? In the barn, in grass sacks, covered in hay. They will keep all winter and not rot, I kid you not.

Now, look at us. Its a lost art. I don't even know how to do it. You know why? I was a kid. I didn't care. Now, I live and work in the city, having forgot my roots, and lost my ability to survive.

 

[Valjean]

More people=more homes=less land

The land we have now will not be the land we have then,

when it hits 9 billion, there is not enough land period, its been studied out in detail, not by me but by thems that count this type of thing.

another 3 billion mouths, the same as the current populations of north america, south america, africa and europes populations needing to be fed twice instead of once, we currently fail to feed once now.

It's not a question of acreage, it's a question of resource depletion, habitat destruction, alteration of the whole biosphere.
In evaluating population effect, it's topsoil thinning, aquifer depletion, habitat depletion, desertification, special extinction, ocean acidification, pollution, greenhouse effect, &c that are significant, not how much grain can be produced or now much space there is, overall.

 

[The Wizard]

Oh, they already have succeeded, and we handed it to them. Granted, I live in the populated area of Kentucky, and only about an hour from Nashville. However, as a boy, we lived both in the city and owned a farm, so I grew up in both places. My mother and step-dad, being old-fashioned, enjoyed farming.

You remember the old folks talking about walking a mile to catch the school bus. I actually did that. That's why I loved it when we stayed at the house in town. But I digress. My point was, with their love of farming, we raised everything.

We had cows, pigs, chickens. We had an acre garden. A freaking acre. Do you have any idea how big that is. We fed the whole community out of that garden. My mother would preserve food (canning, or putting up food as the old folks refer to it). We canned almost anything in the garden, except potatoes. You know you store them? In the barn, in grass sacks, covered in hay. They will keep all winter and not rot, I kid you not.

Now, look at us. Its a lost art. I don't even know how to do it. You know why? I was a kid. I didn't care. Now, I live and work in the city, having forgot my roots, and lost my ability to survive.

It's inedibidle,.. by design. They want to own and control everything, absolutely everything... even the food chain itself. Big Agra... starvation becomes business. Just as illness is business to many parts of the health industry.. instead of actual cures... no money in that. Live on genetically altered mutant foods and if one is lucky.. their great grandson won't be half eggplant. We become what we eat in a certain way. Mutation in equals mutation out. As Magnito on Xmen said, "that's why you let the pawns go first"... better yet I'll raise and grow my own... and try to avoid all the human experiments out there. Jiust my thoughts.

 

[CaptainBritain]

It's not a question of acreage, it's a question of resource depletion, habitat destruction, alteration of the whole biosphere.
In evaluating population effect, it's topsoil thinning, aquifer depletion, habitat depletion, desertification, special extinction, ocean acidification, pollution, greenhouse effect, &c that are significant, not how much grain can be produced or now much space there is, overall.

I agree with everything you said 100 percent:clap, mother earth will not take kindly to being hit so,

I was just stating that even if the sole issue was land, there is still not enough.

The environmental nightmare unleashed by an extra 3 billion people will magnify that problem ten fold.

 

[The Wizard]

So, I was wondering how much investment, land, gardening, animals, etc does the average person or family require to live completely self sufficiently? I am aware not all places are plottible or viable, but just wondering why not many see such as at least one solution to curb food shortage or less dependant consumerism, which becomes unstable with drastic population rise?

 

[CaptainBritain]

So, I was wondering how much investment, land, gardening, animals, etc does the average person or family require to live completely self sufficiently? I am aware not all places are plottible or viable, but just wondering why not many see such as at least one solution to curb food shortage or less dependant consumerism, which becomes unstable with drastic population rise?

There is a sub culture in America and its spread over here too called "prepping"

they are getting ready fo TEOTWAWKI or the end of the World as we know it, basically that whole sub-culture is honed towards self sufficiency, if you go to youtube and search "southernprepper1" a good channel will come up.

Though strangely the Mormons seem to be the masters as many preppers look to Mormon preparedness manuals.

In general though the old rule used to be one acre per person per year, but if your diet exceeds the diets of old a little more might be needed, however there is lots one can do with the aid of modern kit that couldnt be done then.

Id say at a guess, one acre minimum and get chickens and rabbits, oh and fishings handy.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

I love these doomsdays talks. Not sure if any of you have heard of Paul Ehlrich's book The Population Bomb which he wrote in 1968 making the same absurd claims we are hearing now of mass starvation and both economic and environmental devastation. He was, not only wrong, but spectacularly wrong. Yet, the environmentalist crowd still hails him as a prophet of sorts.

 

[Penumbra]

The good news is that population growth tends to slow or even come to a halt as countries get more developed. In places of high education and per capita wealth, the birth rates are significantly lower.

Birth rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate

In some places, population growth has stalled or reversed. Many other places might have the same effect if they get to this point.

If each couple has on average 2 children, then the population should steadily decline, since not everyone mates and has children, and not every child lives to an age to reproduce. So it's like for every person, they get replaced by 0.95 people or something (with the precise number being unknown to me).


The bad news is that as far as I understand it, the way that the wealthy nations live is not sustainable. We're messing up the atmosphere, the oceans, the soil, putting things all over the place that don't degrade within our life time, cutting down ancient forests, reducing biodiversity, and so forth. So it's not like all of Africa and Asia can get to the same level of resource consumption and pollution as Europe or other developed areas, and let the population fall from there. I think we would break long before then.

So it's got to be a combination of living far more sustainably (renewable energy, little or no pollution, stable resource consumption that is balanced with regrowth, a change in diet, etc.) and a reduction in the birth rates of the most reproducing countries (increased birth control, increased education, decreased poverty, etc).

 

[CaptainBritain]

The good news is that population growth tends to slow or even come to a halt as countries get more developed. In places of high education and per capita wealth, the birth rates are significantly lower.

Birth rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Total fertility rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In some places, population growth has stalled or reversed. Many other places might have the same effect if they get to this point.

If each couple has on average 2 children, then the population should steadily decline, since not everyone mates and has children, and not every child lives to an age to reproduce. So it's like for every person, they get replaced by 0.95 people or something (with the precise number being unknown to me).


The bad news is that as far as I understand it, the way that the wealthy nations live is not sustainable. We're messing up the atmosphere, the oceans, the soil, putting things all over the place that don't degrade within our life time, cutting down ancient forests, reducing biodiversity, and so forth. So it's not like all of Africa and Asia can get to the same level of resource consumption and pollution as Europe or other developed areas, and let the population fall from there. I think we would break long before then.

So it's got to be a combination of living far more sustainably (renewable energy, little or no pollution, stable resource consumption that is balanced with regrowth, a change in diet, etc.) and a reduction in the birth rates of the most reproducing countries (increased birth control, increased education, decreased poverty, etc).

If the populations of China and India and Africa consumed like us I reckon we would run out of oil by a week on thursday.

Some are claiming Helium might be the magic fuel of the future, its just getting to it. i dont understand the science but apparently one ton could power the earth for a year (helium being so light, a ton is a lot) trouble is we have so little, however the moon is said to have thousands of tons.

No surprize that the Chinese are now looking to pay a visit.

 

[Penumbra]

If the populations of China and India and Africa consumed like us I reckon we would run out of oil by a week on thursday.

Some are claiming Helium might be the magic fuel of the future, its just getting to it. i dont understand the science but apparently one ton could power the earth for a year (helium being so light, a ton is a lot) trouble is we have so little, however the moon is said to have thousands of tons.

No surprize that the Chinese are now looking to pay a visit.

For helium to provide that quantity of energy, it must be for nuclear fusion.

 

[CaptainBritain]

For helium to provide that quantity of energy, it must be for nuclear fusion.

I do remember fusion being mentioned but after that point I just accepted the science part was correct without too much indepth looking, some things I take on trust and just hope they dont kill us all with it lol.
History is my topic, I let science be for the most part apart from general knowledge unless its critical to the conversations I have, know my limits.
Love lots of Science but some areas make me switch off.

 

[Vendetta]

It cost for countries to be developed. Its not like its something these countries aren't trying to do, finances is a problem. Yes other countries will help but as a loan not as a humanitarian thing. What good news is that?

 

[RomCat]

You can give everyone in the world 9 sq. ft(standing room) and
they would all fit into just 3 of the larger counties of NY State.
All the rest of the world would be empty of human beings!
Asia would be empty. Africa would be empty. Even over 99% of
North America would be empty!

 

[Warren Clark]

I love these doomsdays talks. Not sure if any of you have heard of Paul Ehlrich's book The Population Bomb which he wrote in 1968 making the same absurd claims we are hearing now of mass starvation and both economic and environmental devastation. He was, not only wrong, but spectacularly wrong. Yet, the environmentalist crowd still hails him as a prophet of sorts.

And this book represents what we are talking about?

Not really...

The higher the population the greater the seperation between the poor and the rich.