Worship and Prayer can be LHP

[sojourner]

"Worship", means simply, worthy of praise or respect.

It means more than just that.

Prayer, before it became more like a conversation, used to be an invocation, a mantra, or a meditative chant.

There are many different forms of, and many different vehicles for prayer.

What definition? Yours? Are you forcing your subjective and non-dictionary and historically incorrect definition onto my beliefs?

It appears as though you're trying to squeeze worship and prayer into a narrow definition...

 

[jasonwill2]

Woah, woah, wait a minute. It's my understanding that "left hand path" is a term that didn't come into Western use until the occult revival of the 19th century. Thousands of years old? What? Sorry, but I'm going to call BS on that unless there's some evidence presented. Whether or not LaVey has been shifting the definition relative to its precursors in say, Blavatsky's Theosophy is a legitimate question and one I'm definitely not suited to answer. I'll keep my jury out until I read something by a scholar or historian analyzing the issue.

The term originates from India, I am using the definition that was used there for thousands of years, not the slightly changed definition that happened when the west took the term. And even then The Left Hand Path meant basically "black magick", which was still the heterodox. Anton LaVey was the one that opened the door way for more liberal and incorrect uses of the word.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_hand_path#History_of_the_terms

If you all will permit me to go on a tangent here, I believe Jason is in need of some guidance or help. He has made it all too clear that he does not want help from the Christian side and I respect that.

Being a former Pagan, I know both sides have abilities and powers to solve this problem.

To evoke spirits, one has to retain control of the situation and just perhaps Jason may have lost control of the situation at some time in the past. This is just a hunch and you all can feel free to ignore my observation.

It is my hope that some of you all will assist Jason in regaining control over these spirits.

When I evoked spirits in the past, I contained them within the circle while I was protected outside the circle within a protective triangle. If these spirits had a chance to get inside Jason in the past, perhaps he will need the services of another magickan to seperate the two of them.

Sorry to get off topic, but the LHP group here rarely posts outside the DIR and I wanted to use this opportunity to offer some input.

How is this relevant to the definition of words? It is ad hominem.

I think Jason is referring to the fact that the term LHP indeed has a history that predates the time when it began to be used in Western occult practices.

What do you think Jason? Could RR have a point?
I don't know enough about your personal history to be sure, but if you have perhaps accidentally lost control over something you invoked in the past it could be messing with you in ways you don't realize...

I think he got two topics completely confused.

It appears as though you're trying to squeeze worship and prayer into a narrow definition...

Prayer? I can see the point with that, as for worship, I don't see how.

 

[Quintessence]

The term originates from India, I am using the definition that was used there for thousands of years, not the slightly changed definition that happened when the west took the term. And even then The Left Hand Path meant basically "black magick", which was still the heterodox. Anton LaVey was the one that opened the door way for more liberal and incorrect uses of the word.

edit: Left-hand path and right-hand path - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Er... I ask these questions because I want to get my facts straight and without any insertion of personal bias into the picture. I'm not asking to be argumentative, so please forgive my pathetic ignorance of the subject and don't hit yourself on the forehead, yo?

Do you know of any authoritative works on the history of LHP as a movement/term? Does one exist yet? I would be genuinely interested in reading it, if you know of anything written to an academic, peer-reviewed standard. I'm picky when it comes to getting the facts straight. Go figure, it's the science/academic-background in me.

 

[jasonwill2]

Er... I ask these questions because I want to get my facts straight and without any insertion of personal bias into the picture. I'm not asking to be argumentative, so please forgive my pathetic ignorance of the subject and don't hit yourself on the forehead, yo?

Do you know of any authoritative works on the history of LHP as a movement/term? Does one exist yet? I would be genuinely interested in reading it, if you know of anything written to an academic, peer-reviewed standard. I'm picky when it comes to getting the facts straight. Go figure, it's the science/academic-background in me.

I think the term comes form the Sanskirt word "Vamachara" which means "left hand attainment". However I may be wrong in how old it is and I've been trying to find out how long The Left Hand Path has been around in Hinduism/Buddhism in this way.

edit: it does seem that so far it is at least hundreds of years old before being used in the west.

 

[Infinitum]

How I see this topic, it all comes down to semantics in the end. If you are a spiritual person, there are things you venerate or go to in one form or another, and how that manifests in your life is your own problem. Modern LHP is much about turning to and looking for strength in yourself. You could call it prayer, or invocation or anything you like. Following a philosophical system like that, are you even supposed to care about what others think about you?

However. Some of you know I've explored the idea of contacting a deity, and although I've had short encounters with some I've not formed any relationships with them. I bow to entities I meet and view some of them as my equal, but deities generally want more than just bows and so we go our own ways. Although I don't know about other practitioners here, I think that's pretty common for people leaning towards LHP. It's not that much about what you're "allowed" to do, but how you naturally act in a given situation.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Jason hit the nail on the head.

Not all of us are locked into a Judeo-Christian idea of God as some aloof, superior, outside entity.

Others see God(s) as internal entities, aspects of the self and cosmic forces conjointly, which are ultimately withdrawn into the pure Self-Awareness.

The attitude of worship is key in invoking awareness of these aspects. Worship is consciousness of something's, or someone's (or everything's, and everyone's), inherent worth and worthiness. It is fundamentally an attitude; how we move through life.

I know that I've had the most meaningful mystical experiences when regarding everything and everyone, including myself, with awe, reverence, worship and adoration; these experiences have always been sublated by a singular self-awareness that conveyed the knowledge of my own supreme divinity. My own identity as God.

Supreme, by virtue of including within Me everything and everyone, and yet not being defined by this inclusion; beyond it, not requiring it. This is, of course, true of everyone; they are Supreme by virtue of their inclusion of us, yet not defined by it, etc. We realize eachother like gems composed of infinite facets.

There was no groveling, no superiority, and no inferiority, in this worship. Everything was apprehended as one supreme consciousness and the throb of its union, the perfect mirror wisdom of the self and the other as none other than Self.


And so the synthesis of Self and Others is perfected in the alchemy that is no longer even inward, no longer limited to the inner/outer duality.

 

[Eni Alihm]

I see prayer as a "lost" magical art. It has become rote recitations or simple wish-making.

Prayer originally was a process of concentrated visualization, combined with emotional and mental energy, properly grounded to the physical through proper vocalization.

The spoken Word became in essence praying, this was first understood by the ancient Egyptians in the way of Affirmations and made manifest in (Heka) vibrational magic. Efforts were made to align sound with the principles of a cosmic order (natural ordering of the universe) which perhaps could be seen as a LOGOS, the dialog with that part of your Self that has the ability to create any condition you need or desire.

The invocation within a prayer unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and our innate force of Will.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Would you mind making a thread on Heka? I've not heard of it. What you describe sounds very much like the Hindu view of richas and prana pratistha (invocation through imbuing Will), mantra-dhyan (visualization of deity, guru & self as mantra) and vak (the doctrine of the the "Word") and shabda (doctrine of divine vibration (spanda) as composing all objects and states of consciousness transacting therewith).

 

[jasonwill2]

Jason hit the nail on the head.

Not all of us are locked into a Judeo-Christian idea of God as some aloof, superior, outside entity.

Others see God(s) as internal entities, aspects of the self and cosmic forces conjointly, which are ultimately withdrawn into the pure Self-Awareness.

The attitude of worship is key in invoking awareness of these aspects. Worship is consciousness of something's, or someone's (or everything's, and everyone's), inherent worth and worthiness. It is fundamentally an attitude; how we move through life.

I know that I've had the most meaningful mystical experiences when regarded; these experiences have always been sublated by a singular self-awareness that conveyed the knowledge of my own supreme divinity. My own identity as God.

Supreme, by virtue of including within Me everything and everyone, and yet not being defined by this inclusion; beyond it, not requiring it. This is, of course, true of everyone; they are Supreme by virtue of their inclusion of us, yet not defined by it, etc. We realize eachother like gems composed of infinite facets.

There was no groveling, no superiority, and no inferiority, in this worship. Everything was apprehended as one supreme consciousness and the throb of its union, the perfect mirror wisdom of the self and the other as none other than Self.


And so the synthesis of Self and Others is perfected in the alchemy that is no longer even inward, no longer limited to the inner/outer duality.

This is very similar to how I worship.

I see prayer as a "lost" magical art. It has become rote recitations or simple wish-making.

Prayer originally was a process of concentrated visualization, combined with emotional and mental energy, properly grounded to the physical through proper vocalization.

The spoken Word became in essence praying, this was first understood by the ancient Egyptians in the way of Affirmations and made manifest in (Heka) vibrational magic. Efforts were made to align sound with the principles of a cosmic order (natural ordering of the universe) which perhaps could be seen as a LOGOS, the dialog with that part of your Self that has the ability to create any condition you need or desire.

The invocation within a prayer unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and our innate force of Will.

I agree, prayer is more of meditation or invocation, a form of magick, not begging.

 

[Eni Alihm]

Would you mind making a thread on Heka? I've not heard of it. What you describe sounds very much like the Hindu view of richas and prana pratistha (invocation through imbuing Will), mantra-dhyan (visualization of deity, guru & self as mantra) and vak (the doctrine of the the "Word") and shabda (doctrine of divine vibration (spanda) as composing all objects and states of consciousness transacting therewith).

I would gladly, thank you for the interest Shuddhasattva

 

[Reverend Rick]

OK Jason, I understand the context of how you worship. Here is the thing, what would be the difference who you worship in this manner? I know Setains worship Set who is an ancient Egyptian god. I know Luciferianism worships Lucifer which means light bringer and not some biblical devil. The trouble I am having is, who the hell is the Satan you worship? If he is not the Christian fallen angel the name would imply, is he a god with the same name?

The point I am making is, all of the above are LHP, but the difference is Setains and Luciferians define their god and you can google the aspects of their god.

Who the hell is your god and where can I read about the aspects of your god who has the same name as the fallen angel Satan?

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Jason has described Ha-Satan, and his interpretation/practice, very well in another thread on that topic.

 

[Eni Alihm]

OK Jason, I understand the context of how you worship. Here is the thing, what would be the difference who you worship in this manner? I know Setains worship Set who is an ancient Egyptian god. I know Luciferianism worships Lucifer which means light bringer and not some biblical devil.

Just a minor sniglet, neither Setians nor Luciferians worship anyone other than themselves and/or Higher Self.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Just a minor sniglet, neither Setians nor Luciferians worship anyone other than themselves and/or Higher Self.

So what is the difference between the two then?

 

[Eni Alihm]

So what is the difference between the two then?

One works with the current of Set the other with the current of Lucifer? :magic:

 

[jasonwill2]

OK Jason, I understand the context of how you worship. Here is the thing, what would be the difference who you worship in this manner? I know Setains worship Set who is an ancient Egyptian god. I know Luciferianism worships Lucifer which means light bringer and not some biblical devil. The trouble I am having is, who the hell is the Satan you worship? If he is not the Christian fallen angel the name would imply, is he a god with the same name?

The point I am making is, all of the above are LHP, but the difference is Setains and Luciferians define their god and you can google the aspects of their god.

Who the hell is your god and where can I read about the aspects of your god who has the same name as the fallen angel Satan?

They don't like to say they worship them, and kind of don't by a number of standards.

Jason has described Ha-Satan, and his interpretation/practice, very well in another thread on that topic.

Several, actually. kind of in a major/huge paradigm shift right now though. But basically it's a testing god, that part will probably stay the same.

One works with the current of Set the other with the current of Lucifer? :magic:

This.