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Would like to get some help on this one?

Jyothi

Member
Dont know if anyone has read or learnt about the "Vaimanika Shastra", or "Samarangana Sutradhara" or any of the other numerous texts on aircrafts.

The interest is because i read about ancient indian flying machines from this article. this talks essentially about anti gravity and mercury / ion exchange engines


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Flying high

Hundred years after Orville Wright’s first flight, K R N SWAMY remembers Shivkur Bapuji Talpade, the Indian who flew an unmanned aircraft, eight years before Wright

Orville Wright demonstrated on December 17th 1903 that it was possible for a ‘manned heavier than air machine to fly’. But, in 1895, eight years earlier, the Sanskrit scholar Shivkar Bapuji Talpade had designed a basic aircraft called Marutsakthi (meaning Power of Air) based on Vedic technology and had it take off unmanned before a large audience in the Chowpathy beach of Bombay. The importance of the Wright brothers lies in the fact, that it was a manned flight for a distance of 120 feet and Orville Wright became the first man to fly. But Talpade’s unmanned aircraft flew to a height of 1500 feet before crashing down and the historian Evan Koshtka, has described Talpade as the ‘first creator of an aircraft’.

As the world observes the one hundredth anniversary of the first manned flight, it is interesting to consider the saga of India’s 19th century first aircraft inventor for his design was entirely based on the rich treasury of India’s Vedas. Shivkar Bapuji Talpade was born in 1864 in the locality of Chirabazar at Dukkarwadi in Bombay.

He was a scholar of Sanskrit and from his young age was attracted by the Vaimanika Sastra (Aeronautical Science) expounded by the great Indian sage Maharishi Bhardwaja. One western scholar of Indology Stephen-Knapp has put in simple words or rather has tried to explain what Talpade did and succeeded!

According to Knapp, the Vaimanika Shastra describes in detail, the construction of what is called, the mercury vortex engine the forerunner of the ion engines being made today by NASA. Knapp adds that additional information on the mercury engines can be found in the ancient Vedic text called Samaranga Sutradhara. This text also devotes 230 verses, to the use of these machines in peace and war. The Indologist William Clarendon, who has written down a detailed description of the mercury vortex engine in his translation of Samaranga Sutradhara quotes thus ‘Inside the circular air frame, place the mercury-engine with its solar mercury boiler at the aircraft center. By means of the power latent in the heated mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in a most marvellous manner. Four strong mercury containers must be built into the interior structure. When these have been heated by fire through solar or other sources the vimana (aircraft) develops thunder-power through the mercury.

NASA (National Aeronau-tical and Space Administra-tion) world’s richest/ most powerful scientific organisation is trying to create an ion engine that is a device that uses a stream of high velocity electrified particles instead of a blast of hot gases like in present day modern jet engines. Surprisingly according to the bi-monthly Ancient Skies published in USA, the aircraft engines being developed for future use by NASA by some strange coincidence also uses mercury bombardment units powered by Solar cells! Interestingly, the impulse is generated in seven stages. The mercury propellant is first vapourised fed into the thruster discharge chamber ionised converted into plasma by a combination with electrons broke down electrically and then accelerated through small openings in a screen to pass out of the engine at velocities between 1200 to 3000 kilometres per minute! But so far NASA has been able to produce an experimental basis only a one pound of thrust by its scientists a power derivation virtually useless. But 108 years ago Talpade was able to use his knowledge of Vaimanika Shastra to produce sufficient thrust to lift his aircraft 1500 feet into the air!

According to Indian scholar Acharya, ‘Vaimanika Shastra deals about aeronautics including the design of aircraft the way they can be used for transportation and other applications in detail. The knowledge of aeronautics is described in Sanskrit in 100 sections, eight chapters, 500 principles and 3000 slokas including 32 techniques to fly an aircraft. In fact, depending on the classifications of eras or Yugas in modern Kaliyuga aircraft used are called Krithakavimana flown by the power of engines by absorbing solar energies!’ It is feared that only portions of Bharadwaja’s masterpiece Vaimanika Shas-tra survive today.

The question that comes to one’s mind is, what happened to this wonderful encyclopaedia of aeronautical knowledge accumulated by the Indian savants of yore, and why was it not used? But in those days, such knowledge was the preserve of sages, who would not allow it to be misused, just like the knowledge of atomic bombs is being used by terrorists today!

According to scholar Ratnakar Mahajan who wrote a brochure on Talpade. ‘Being a Sanskrit scholar interested in aeronautics, Talpade studied and consulted a number of Vedic treatises like Brihad Vaimanika Shastra of Maharishi Bharadwaja Vimanachandrika of Acharya Narayan Muni Viman yantra of Maharish Shownik Yantra Kalp by Maharishi Garg Muni Viman Bindu of Acharya Vachaspati and Vimana Gyanarka Prakashika of Maharishi Dhundiraj’. This gave him confidence that he can build an aircraft with mercury engines. One essential factor in the creation of these Vedic aircraft was the timing of the Suns Rays or Solar energy (as being now utilised by NASA) when they were most effective to activate the mercury ions of the engine. Happily for Talpade Maharaja Sayaji Rao Gaekwad of Baroda a great supporter of the Sciences in India, was willing to help him and Talpade went ahead with his aircraft construction with mercury engines. One day in 1895 (unfortunately the actual date is not mentioned in the Kesari newspaper of Pune which covered the event) before an curious scholarly audience headed by the famous Indian judge/ nationalist/ Mahadeva Govin-da Ranade and H H Sayaji Rao Gaekwad Talpade had the good fortune to see his un manned aircraft named as ‘Marutsakthi’ take off, fly to a height of 1500 feet and then fall down to earth.

But this success of an Indian scientist was not liked by the Imperial rulers. Warned by the British Government the Maharaja of Baroda stopped helping Talpade. It is said that the remains of the Marutsakthi were sold to ‘foreign parties’ by the relatives of Talpade in order to salvage whatever they can out of their loans to him. Talpade’s wife died at this critical juncture and he was not in a mental frame to continue with his researches. But his efforts to make known the greatness of Vedic Shastras was recognised by Indian scholars, who gave him the title of Vidya Prakash Pra-deep.

Talpade passed away in 1916 un-honoured, in his own country.

As the world rightly honours the Wright Brothers for their achievements, we should think of Talpade, who utilised the ancient knowledge of Sanskrit texts, to fly an aircraft, eight years before his foreign counterparts.
 

Jyothi

Member
hello - somebody help

i have come across many references to flying machines in Hindu texts. but i have not read any of the original (i have read an english translation of one) flying machine texts. then lo presto i read about the snippet i posted, from a deccan herald (an indian news paper)archive.

i am intrigued and then there are a lot of questions unanswered - if india had flying machines, why wasnt it used to repel muslim invaders (some claim buddhism played a role - ashokas 9 wise men etc) the last ever instance of indians using flying machines in war was when a few disk like flying objects covered in flames flew low over alexanders cavalry and frightened the horses according to an excerpt i read.

the indian defense research organization DRDO was trying to revive some of the sciences from Atharva veda and Arthashastra, but i dont know the status.

What do the forum members here think - is it some what true (evidence?) or is it all one big hoax.

cheers
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
The Vaimanika Shastra which translates to the "science of aeronautics" is apparently an ancient text, and there are references to it from around the 10th century CE. However, the Vaimanika Shastra that Indian scientists are studying today, is a 19th century work from a mystic who claimed to have received it through divine vision. In any case, ion engies is a modern concept, so it is interesting how this mystic wrote about it.

An official study published by the Indian MoD(ministory of defence) for aeronautics claims that Sanskrit linguist experts who have anaylsed the Sanskrit grammar and contrasted it with others texts that is ascribed to this author, Maharishi Bharadwaj, claim it is authentic.

In other studies the research institutes in India have actually created new materials by following the prescriptions and formulas in this text, which were published in Indian newspapers and also in the India's scientific journals. One such material was a substance that could absorb all infrared radiation.

From the records I have found about this so called flight of this mercury ion engine by Dr Talpade, that it is indeed did happen, and was published in the media and documented by a historian.

The 'Samaranga Sutradhara' is indeed an authentic text, and verse quoted from it is above by an early British scholar is also genuine.

In fact even as early as the 19th century, Indian Sanskrit scholars often claimed that you can find scientific truths, such as electricity, steam engines etc in the Vedic texts and certain European scholars corroborated that. However, the British orthodox school of Historians and scholars rubbished these claims. Max Muller is especially famous for that and they produced translations to support their own belief, of a primitive, nomadic and tribal people that worshipped nature-gods. While Indian Sanskrit scholars, such as Dayananda cried foul.

However, the devas, actually denote physical phenomena and roles. Agni governs tejas(energy, fire, eletricity) Indra governs the weather and is particularly renowned for slaying the demon Vritra with his thunderbolt and causing rain and Vritra means cloud. In other words, the weather causes an electric discharge in the clouds, causing rain to fall.

Vayu is wind/force and is used to describe all forces of attraction or repulsion, for example the Yayu of the sun(attraction) Surya is the sun, and his daughters are Usha(dawn) the chariot of the Sun is driven by 7 horses, each tied by crooked snakes. All this is saying the sun has 7 types of rays, and they do not travel in a straight line, but in a curved motion.

This is supported by another verse in the Vedas which says it without the metaphoric language, there are seven rays of the sun.

Agni is described as an aspect of the light coming from the sun. While the greater gods, like Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva, denote the principles of creation, preservation and destuction.

For example, if Max Muller and co's were right that the Vedic Aryans were just worshiping nature gods, then why would this verse appear in the Vedas:

Sarva Dishanaam, Suryaha, Suryaha, Suryaha

This means that there are suns in all directions in the universe. Again further proof that Surya is not just some deity being, but how the Vedic Aryans recognized the sun and stars. There is further proven in another sloka, which says that when one sun sinks below the horizon, a thousand suns take it's place.

This is a very sophisticated understanding that the sun is just another star, only that it's more closer to us. The sun occupied a very important position in the Vedas, it was recognized as the source of life, the warmth of the universe and the centre of the solar system(centre of the spheres) and that it strung all other planets(spheres) in their orbit through it's attractive force.

In other words, the Vedic Arya knew that about the force of gravity. In the Puranas there is a story of a huge elephant who supports the Earth. This elephant was called Gurutvakarshan and incidentally that is the Sanskrit word for gravity and is derived from the words guru(master)-tva-akarshan(attraction). The verses in the Rig Veda says this "The gravitational effect of solar system makes the earth stable (R.V.1-103-2, 1-115-4 and 5-81-2)" in another verse the Earth is said to be immovable, and this is taken to mean by some that the Earth does not move. When really it means the Earth is immovable, because it's governed by the gravitational pull of the sun.

The concept of gravity is very clearly described in Kanada's Vaeshishika Shaastra. As a downwards force that acts on all objects. It gives the example of an arrow in flight, and says there are two force components, one that is acting down on it(gravity) and other is the momentum.

In the Yajur Veda, in one verse, a very curious verse is made that could allude electricity. It says that Agni has two heads, and between these two heads sparks of energy flow. If you understand that Agni is taken to mean energy or electricity, this could be speaking of cathodes and anodes(positive and negative terminals) There is another verse in the Vedas that speaks of how eletricity can split water into two components.

The electricity is hidden in water and when it comes out, it spreads light and provides energy(R.V 1-16-5).

The Sanskit word for electiricity is Viduat.

Note how the verses I quoted from the Rig Veda in the other thread, that prove how ships were used to cross oceans, have prayers to "Agni" as the ones who provides the energy to make that possible. In other words, fire/energy. So these were not just basic oar driven boats, but here are suggested to have used fire/steam or some other form of energy as propulsion.

It is also true the Rig Veda mentions all kinds of vehicles, to be used on land, sea and even air. They are mentioned in the Mahabharata and the Ramayana as well, in fact throughout Indian literature of yore. The records of flying planes can be found outside of Indian literature in this time too.

The Vedas are divided into the following: Rig Veda, Sama Veda, Yujur Veda and Athara Veda. They are composed by hundreds of rishis from vedic times, and are considered authorative by all of the main academic schools of Hinduism, including physic and medicine. They derive their knowledge from them.

The Vedas were like the central texts of study for all these schools. They are divided into some 40 braches and cover everything from medicine, political science, miltiary science, engineering, morals and ethics, horticulture, mathematics, grammar, physics, economics etc etc etc The Atharva Veda particulatly deals with city planning, engineering, Ayurveda and dhunurvidya(militaty science)

In any case, if there was such a civilisation on Earth that had reached the modern scientific age before us, and conveyed in planes, ships and what not. Then we don't have any records of it, other than literature.

However, somehow the early Vedic Aryans arrived at scientific truths such as the sun being the centre of the solar system, of gravity, even of atoms and propounded so many scientific facts that it makes one think, how did they arrive at these truths? Was it through philosophy or through empirical study. The fact that certain texts exist that give instructions on building engines, would suggest technology did play a part.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
Do you have any comments Jyothi?

I just got a book recently called "Hinduism and the Scientific Quest" which reveals some extraordinary scientific truths in the Vedas. I may start a thread on it later.
 
:help: As i've talked to jyothi about it so shall i talk to you about it,jyothi informed me that you are a very learned soul which is good mabe you'll be able to help me in the matter, oh suraj i'm looking for a guru to help me expand in my thinking as well as draw closer to god(krsna), to be set on the right course to godhead is a blessing.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
I am really humbled. I don't know any gurus myself, but hope sometime in life will find a guru myself. I really wish that like Lord Rama, I would also find a Sage Vasista who would be there to answer everyone of my inquiries and guide me to the true realisation of the self. The self is indeed Krsna.

I think the only way to draw closer to god, is through understanding the self better. But to understand the self, you must be prepared to accept that everything that you know, is nothing but an abtractation or concept. Everything is absolute negation. This is what Sage Vasista tells Lord Rama.

You must be prepared to let go of all impressions and your ego though intense meditation and sadhana Just as if you were going to learn - if you go with your mind already half-full, then you will learn half of what is being taught. If you go with an empty mind - you will learn all of what is being taught.

In meditation, thoughts arise all the time, these are emanating from your subconscious mind and the past impressions(samskaras). As they arise, they distract us and take us in their flow, like being caught up in the current of a river. That is because we judge them, not knowing, that we are in fact judging ourselves. They are reflecting us, and as long as we do not accept them for what they are, we cannot surpass them.

I particularly have a tendency to judge my thoughts and becomes aggitated by unpleasant thoughts. Sage Vasista, tells Rama, that the mind is the source of all wrongs. The mind, is no different from matter, it is only formed of finer particles.

Hence, why the mind is always our worst enemy. Always trying to distract us, sabotaging all our efforts to improve ourselves, keeping us entangled in the world of Maya(illusion) limiting our knowledge and keeping us in doubt.

This is why even though have come to some spiritual realisations, I cannot attain enlightenment, because the mind is resisting me. It is a long journey, but as a very wise man once said, a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

Ultimately, through practice of Yoga, you want to be able to gain control of your mind. You need to be able to develop the ability to become a detached observer of your mind and reality. Neither pain nor pleasure or happiness or sorrow should disturb the stillness and peace of your mind. The highest state of being is not happiness; it is peace. When you enter this state of mind you can observe all those impressions, observe them, and then let them go, and everytime you let go of an impression, you come closer to the self.

The self(purush) is pure, eternal bliss, but seems to be impure because of the impressions acting on it. Just like a colourless glass will seem to take on the colour of the background it views, but in reality, it is colourless. Likewise, the self, is colourless, but is taking on the colours of the impressions it views. Once, all those impressions are gone, the self shines in it's true colour.

The greatest and highest worship of god, is through the worship of the living and intellectual spirit, for it is indeed god who resides at the core of who we are. The spiritual journey; is an intellectual journey - a journey of finding your true and eternal nature.
 
Suraj said:
I am really humbled. I don't know any gurus myself, but hope sometime in life will find a guru myself. I really wish that like Lord Rama, I would also find a Sage Vasista who would be there to answer everyone of my inquiries and guide me to the true realisation of the self. The self is indeed Krsna.

I think the only way to draw closer to god, is through understanding the self better. But to understand the self, you must be prepared to accept that everything that you know, is nothing but an abtractation or concept. Everything is absolute negation. This is what Sage Vasista tells Lord Rama.

You must be prepared to let go of all impressions and your ego though intense meditation and sadhana Just as if you were going to learn - if you go with your mind already half-full, then you will learn half of what is being taught. If you go with an empty mind - you will learn all of what is being taught.

In meditation, thoughts arise all the time, these are emanating from your subconscious mind and the past impressions(samskaras). As they arise, they distract us and take us in their flow, like being caught up in the current of a river. That is because we judge them, not knowing, that we are in fact judging ourselves. They are reflecting us, and as long as we do not accept them for what they are, we cannot surpass them.

I particularly have a tendency to judge my thoughts and becomes aggitated by unpleasant thoughts. Sage Vasista, tells Rama, that the mind is the source of all wrongs. The mind, is no different from matter, it is only formed of finer particles.

Hence, why the mind is always our worst enemy. Always trying to distract us, sabotaging all our efforts to improve ourselves, keeping us entangled in the world of Maya(illusion) limiting our knowledge and keeping us in doubt.

This is why even though have come to some spiritual realisations, I cannot attain enlightenment, because the mind is resisting me. It is a long journey, but as a very wise man once said, a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

Ultimately, through practice of Yoga, you want to be able to gain control of your mind. You need to be able to develop the ability to become a detached observer of your mind and reality. Neither pain nor pleasure or happiness or sorrow should disturb the stillness and peace of your mind. The highest state of being is not happiness; it is peace. When you enter this state of mind you can observe all those impressions, observe them, and then let them go, and everytime you let go of an impression, you come closer to the self.

The self(purush) is pure, eternal bliss, but seems to be impure because of the impressions acting on it. Just like a colourless glass will seem to take on the colour of the background it views, but in reality, it is colourless. Likewise, the self, is colourless, but is taking on the colours of the impressions it views. Once, all those impressions are gone, the self shines in it's true colour.

The greatest and highest worship of god, is through the worship of the living and intellectual spirit, for it is indeed god who resides at the core of who we are. The spiritual journey; is an intellectual journey - a journey of finding your true and eternal nature.
Yes i have a long journey ahead of me but i look forward to that struggle, only in the struggle can i grow to enlightment my worry is that it may present itself in another lifetime...possibly, and due to the procces of birth and rebirth i will forget most of my past memories and at this point in my development i cannot hope to retain them, it truely is a long road indeed but to know that krsna is there allways helping me makes it worth while, oh suraj stay in touch for we walk simliar paths and can draw alot from each other many blessing to you.:)
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
I fear the same as well sometimes. We sometimes have to accept that the lives we are currently living may not amount to much at all. But, as you and I both believe, this is not the only life we will live. Who we are in this life is an ego, who we want to be in life(a more attractive person, a more intelligent person, a more wealthy person, a more powerful person, a more wise person) is also an ego. The desires that we leave incomplete in this life, will manifest again in the next life.

There are two ways of by which we burn up our desires. We can do it through either action or meditation. The former, is through directly realizing out desires. Take for example, a poor homeless man. He consideres him unfortunate, he doesn't have many of the things we take for granted(food and shelter) but what happens when we do give him food and shelter, do his desires end? Nope, he begins to desire other things, like money. What happens when we give him money, do his desires end? Nope, he begins to desire power. And happens when we give him power, do his desires end? Nope, there comes a time where he wants something more than food, shelter, money and power; he wants love. But does love end his desires? Nope.

Ultimately, there will come a time, when he has no more desires. That is when he is liberated. What happens to the poor man, if he dies before he fulfills one of his desires? He will be born again, according to the laws of karma, to fulfill it. If he dies with too much desire, he will be neither here or there, he will become temporarily bound to this Earth.

Through meditation, we can work directly on those desires and their causes. The causes, are the Samkaras or past impressions. But to do that, you have to be willing to make a commitment to a life of meditation and yoga. I have not made that commitment myself yet, it is difficult to lead a spiritual and material life simultaneously. But eventually, I will do it. If I pass away, before that, then I will incarnate again to do that.

In fact, the reason why the soul leaves the body, is it because the body it inhabits no longer serves it needs and purpose. If you truly want to make that long spiritual journey, then be prepared to let everything else go, and lead a spiritual life of yoga and meditation.

This is what you and I, both need to do, but only when we are ready to do it.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
An ancient flying machine would have generated historical ripples far and wide. There are none.
A technologically sophisticated culture would have been commented on by primary sources everywhere, and, of course, left it's own records. There are none.
A high-tech society would have left extensive archaeological artifacts -- Not even a tin can can be found.
 

Jyothi

Member
Suraj

Thanks a lot for the post, it was very informative and did answer some of my questions.

However two things remain
a. is it possible to obtain any of these texts anymore - as in libraries etc - i mean the originals not translation
b. Just as Seyorani pointed out, there should be some archaeological findings and if such scientific and technological marvels existed, where did we lose it? I do understand that with the advent of buddhism, and the associated focus on Ahimsa as the paramodharma, a lot of tools of war were destroyed or hidden, and a lot of technologies were lost. but is that why there is no hint of memory about those "let me say" forgotten technologies. is there some reason to this memory loss after all.

Moses - the paths are many - the choices are aplenty - i guess the answer starts from opening ones inner eyes and looking within and without. i dont know if you practice meditation or yoga

cheers
 

Jyothi

Member
Seyorni said:
An ancient flying machine would have generated historical ripples far and wide. There are none.
A technologically sophisticated culture would have been commented on by primary sources everywhere, and, of course, left it's own records. There are none.
A high-tech society would have left extensive archaeological artifacts -- Not even a tin can can be found.
seyorni

I do agree with you to an extent - but how does one explain the press report on the ion engine flight in mumbai, before the wright brothers invested their aircraft. and you should know also that there were many researchers and scientists working on a flying craft in the west for many years before that, with no success. as for the ion exchange engine, it is still being researched in the west as we speak.

i would consider that as supporting evidence to the possible existence of such technology, however there are more questions such as lack of archaeological evidence as far as i know (and i assume - as far as you know too) and how was such technology - lost.

cheers
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The flying machine in Mumbai is a colourful bit of folklore, like the flying carpets in Baghdad.

If the plan for this mercury engine were described well enough in the Vedic literature for a 19th century vedic scholar to create a working model, surely a modern aeronautical engineer could throw one together before breakfast.
 
;) Suraj and jyothi i would like to practice meditation but time isn't in my favour though i try get some in when i can, it seems the the path of knowlegde and growth is very difficult, but the funny thing about it is i guess thats where the growth comes in but to tell you the truth its a tedious path and a tolorence builder, its how you recive those blessings and curses according to dharma and karma is the key to gaining a foothold on the path to enlightinment......i hope you both agree,oh seyorni there where many flying machines in many cultures reported throughout there historys, to bad that if there where any evdence left its lost thru time.:cool:
 

Jyothi

Member
Seyorni said:
The flying machine in Mumbai is a colourful bit of folklore, like the flying carpets in Baghdad.

If the plan for this mercury engine were described well enough in the Vedic literature for a 19th century vedic scholar to create a working model, surely a modern aeronautical engineer could throw one together before breakfast.
its so interesting how fast you jump to a conclusion without analyzing underlying issues. i did not say that it is true or false, i just said we might look at it - you refuse to do that, it seems.

deccan herald and english language daily, if ranked among all news papers in the world, might rank somewhere among the top 10, if the parameter is readership. it probably has more readership than the population of many countries. it is widely respected and read in western india. Kesari was one of the most honest news papers that was ever found in india and was a non profit organization.

Sayaji Rao Gaekwad, the Maharaja of Baroda who is quoted to have funded the project, and who is reported to be present at this event in chowpatty (a well known public beach in bombay western india) was a visionary ruler, who spent a large amount of his inherited fortune for the advancement of technology, education and social development. he is one of the most respected people in western indian history

what you are trying to say here is that all of these people - the editors reporters of the news papers in question, the readers, the maharaja of baroda etc are going around colorful folk lore - maybe you are right. but i will still pursue the idea.

Ayurveda, the most scientific of all traditional medicine being practiced in the world, probably as much developed as western medicine, but developed centuries ago, was deemed superstition and discounted by western scientists and medical practitioners. if you today think the same way about ayurveda, it is plain silly.

yoga, was called mumbo jumbo. well today i suppose you would still call it so.

what i am asking is to please keep your eyes open, all of them.

i agreed with you about the evidence, but i cant agree with you here.

cheers
 

Jyothi

Member
Moses the God Archetype* said:
;) Suraj and jyothi i would like to practice meditation but time isn't in my favour though i try get some in when i can, it seems the the path of knowlegde and growth is very difficult, but the funny thing about it is i guess thats where the growth comes in but to tell you the truth its a tedious path and a tolorence builder, its how you recive those blessings and curses according to dharma and karma is the key to gaining a foothold on the path to enlightinment......i hope you both agree:cool:
I agree moses, try to practice yogic asanas and pranayama as well. over time you would leave the physical part behind, as you become more proficient and your body considers the asanas or the pranayama, the natural course of events. then you could concentrate on the samskaras

hope it helps

cheers
 

Jyothi

Member
Moses the God Archetype* said:
its how you recive those blessings and curses according to dharma and karma is the key to gaining a foothold on the path to enlightinment......i hope you both agree,
i dont but i will not answer further on that one...... ;)
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
Seryoni makes a good point. Where is the physical evidence of these planes?
At the same time, the fact that there is a record of flight of this ion engine and the fact that Sanskrit texts do exist that discuss how to construct them is compelling evidence in it's own right. Even more compelling is the positive results of the official studies done on them and the fact that it has lead to the creation of new materials following the formulas prescribed in them.

Jyothi, I've found a complete English translation of the Vymanika Shaastra on the net at sacred-texts.com. It is very fascinating, enjoy:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/vs/vs04.htm
 
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