Would the world be better off without any religion?

[RestlessSoul]

I am asking for your claim. If you had not done that research prior to making that kind of claim that's fine.

Cheers.

I was hardly making a controversial statement. If you have limited knowledge of Russian history and culture, that’s fine. Maybe do some reading on the subject, if you’re interested.

Cheers.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I never said that. Putting hope in something that has no good reason to believe in it is not real hope. When you discover there is not a good reason to believe in God then the hope turns to emotional trauma.

Now I like evidence for what a good reason is?

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

Would the world and people be better off without any religion?

What would be better?
What would be worse?

We never know. It's hard to tell. It also depends upon what you mean by religion. I think religion is the repetitive adherence to a set of principles. That only becomes harmful when one set disagrees with the other. If you're talking about organized religion I would say yes. We would defiantly be better off without it. Better because of how it is used as a tool politically for destruction and division. Worse for the small degree of good it has done. The good and the bad could have been done without it though.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I agree. They should not do that.

Good evidence as such and good evidence for good reasons for that they should not do that?

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

I say yes, simply because it stops people from believing things they do not have good evidence for.

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

I think it myopic to use evidence as a religious or irreligious crutch. There is evidence for and against everything. The irreligious tend to think that faith is without evidence and that evidence is without faith which is nonsense. So why do they think that? It creates the illusion of certainty which is very comforting. Like religion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I would say the world would be better off without religion and/or religious kind of believes based upon dogma's.

That of course doesn't mean that all religions are equally 'bad' or that all religious people are 'bad'. Not at all. But I prefer people based their beliefs upon reason and facts instead of religion or dogma's.

Please explain how that is done?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So? Do you think superstition is bad? Is it good to believe things that are not evident or "factual".?

What does what I think have to do with evidence and what is good with evidence?

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

Most all religious people have hope. Getting rid of religion gets rid of their hope.

What hope do each of the world religions have? Do the irreligious not have hope?

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

I think a question should be -- is there a God?

The question has been answered. There are billions of . . . countless gods.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

The people dead set against religion have muddled perspective.

Look at the 20th century. Communism, fascism, nationalism, socialism, capitalism. They did more to bring destruction and despair to the world than all religions combined historically.

Having a religion myself, it looks like it would be better to rid the world of secularism. Having the religion I have myself, I know better.

But that kind of thinking supposes that a religion has to have a God. There are as many atheist religions that were a part of those destructive political forces. The question was regarding the world being better off with or without religion, not God.

 

[firedragon]

I was hardly making a controversial statement. If you have limited knowledge of Russian history and culture, that’s fine. Maybe do some reading on the subject, if you’re interested.

Cheers.

Just some cheap ad hominem. I will ignore that.

Every country has a religious background. That is fact. Russia was one of the few countries that turned things around. And predominantly because of the Russian drive to eliminate religions and establish atheism or as they called it "Godless", world statistics changed. If you look at numbers form 1910 through the 20th century, watch how the numbers increase with the Russian rise in atheism.

Watch how Stalinism affected even global statistics. The rise is directly correlated to Russia. Of course later statistics decline.

Never-mind. Cheers.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

Nope.

Just look at secular soviet russia

Okay. Secularism is a political force? But are the people there without religion? Would the people without religion be better off without religion in a secular paradigm? Maybe we would be better off without love. Or politics. Or secular paradigms.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Just some cheap ad hominem. I will ignore that.

Every country has a religious background. That is fact. Russia was one of the few countries that turned things around. And predominantly because of the Russian drive to eliminate religions and establish atheism or as they called it "Godless", world statistics changed. If you look at numbers form 1910 through the 20th century, watch how the numbers increase with the Russian rise in atheism.

View attachment 63607

Watch how Stalinism affected even global statistics. The rise is directly correlated to Russia. Of course later statistics decline.

Never-mind. Cheers.

It in the end depends of the definition of religion used.

 

[osgart]

Prophecy is useless because it creates false expectations and resignation to a particular outcome. And nothing gets done.

Dogma is rigid and inflexible, and will not ever adapt to new knowledge or information that is proven.

Eternal doom religions demonize people that should never have to endure such treatment.

Faith and belief are only beneficial when there are actual reasons or possibilities on the table.

Some religious faith is healthy because it can produce charitable motivations.

I said no though because the world needs better religion that amends itself to proven realities. Having higher power can motivate inspiring things.

If God were found to be a lost cause I still think having higher power would be a crucial part of humanity. I believe people can transcend past their situations, and reality into creating a better world.

Religion can be artistic and inspiring. When it's cultish it needs to die out. When it rings true it elevates motivation to live.

Religion has both beneficial, and destructive moral aspects. It needs to distill out all it's falsities.

I do not think that secular society is entirely healthy at all. I think it lacks creative aspects, and is hyper rational, and overly critical. Religion can fill a void, but many religions need to end.

Amend it, and distill all it's falsities out I say. People make powerful institutions based on charity. That's a positive aspect of religion.

The idea of church is a beneficial idea if used correctly. People cry out for motivation, inspiration, guidance, and conviction to move forward. They seek a sacred dwelling place where people can heal. Church is like a sanctuary. Church is about something that rings true. Church has chicken bbq's too.

 

[AppieB]

Flawed? So. Removing religion would solve the world's ills?

It wouldn't matter.

I was pointing out that there are proven worse boogeymen.

So curing AIDS wouldn't matter because there are worse ills like cancer and malaria?
I would call that definitely flawed reasoning.

 

[Viker]

But that kind of thinking supposes that a religion has to have a God. There are as many atheist religions that were a part of those destructive political forces. The question was regarding the world being better off with or without religion, not God.

What atheist religions are you talking about? I only know of a few, none have ever been involved in carrying out atrocities.

 

[AppieB]

I believe you are missing my point altogether.

Just saying that I missed your point doesn't do anything in a discussion. Tell me where you think I missed it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So curing AIDS wouldn't matter because there are worse ills like cancer and malaria?
I would call that definitely flawed reasoning.

The problem is if you can remove religion as such? If it has a cure or if it is a part of being human?

 

[AppieB]

Just like I would say not all religion is evil. Neither is secularism. People tend to focus on that more.

Seriously. Name something worse than Stalinist Soviet Russia in recent memory.

Yeah, you have missed my point altogether.

I'm not saying all religion is evil. As I stated in my reply to the TS: I would say the world would be better off without religion and/or religious kind of believes based upon dogma's.
That of course doesn't mean that all religions are equally 'bad' or that all religious people are 'bad'. Not at all. But I prefer people based their beliefs upon reason and facts instead of religion or dogma's.

So I'm not proposing a Stalinist dogmatic idealogy

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not saying all religion is evil. As I stated in my reply to the TS: I would say the world would be better off without religion and/or religious kind of believes based upon dogma's.
That of course doesn't mean that all religions are equally 'bad' or that all religious people are 'bad'. Not at all. But I prefer people based their beliefs upon reason and facts instead of religion or dogma's.

So I'm not proposing a Stalinist dogmatic idealogy

How is that done?