Would the world be better off without any religion?

[mikkel_the_dane]

Of course, this is my comment so it reflects on what I think.
Do I really have to put I think in front of every sentence I write?

No, but you have to learn the difference between these 2 cases of "is" for the cat is black versus religion is bad. Those are not the same. Evidence apply to the former, but not the latter.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Surely it is all about religions. Many would have no issue with any belief as to there being a God and as to what they might do about such, but it is more about the dogma and beliefs resulting from and often enforced by any particular religion that is the issue. That is purely my issue with religions - what they tend to cause as beliefs and/or behaviour in many, and which is often divisive or harmful.

The same is true of political ideologies. I consider as me some good and others bad.

 

[firedragon]

Further even if their beliefs are not true, it is true that they can believe in them and further act on them, at least in some cases.
As for bad for the world, I have never seen any evidence for good or bad for the world.

He said its bad for the world, and without it the world will be a better place. So I am asking him why.

Thanks.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The same is true of political ideologies. I consider as me some good and others bad.

Well to me, religions are just a subset of ideology, as are political ones, and of course I agree that political ones can be equally harmful.

 

[AppieB]

Okay. So lets say people believe in religion, and according to your worldview, they are not true. Why is that bad for the world?

So again, your question is: Why is it a bad thing to believe things that are not true (comports with reality)?

The example with the battery acid is a clear one. Another is: Believing that vaccins do more harm than good. And therefore not taking a vaccin against Covid. Which results in a higher risk of harm.

 

[Nakosis]

Would the world and people be better off without any religion?

What would be better?
What would be worse?

I don't know if better. We'd just have a different set of stories.
We humans like our stories about how the universe began, what happens when we die.
Religion happens when we've managed to convince ourselves some of these stories are true.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So again, your question is: Why is it a bad thing to believe things that are not true (comports with reality)?

The example with the battery acid is a clear one. Another is: Believing that vaccins do more harm than good. And therefore not taking a vaccin against Covid. Which results in a higher risk of harm.

Yes, but that is not all of the everyday world. Your examples are in effect about objective bad for all humans. There is more to the world than that.

 

[Clara Tea]

Would the world and people be better off without any religion?

What would be better?
What would be worse?

Admire ideal...fall short.

Feign belief. . . don't practice.

Example 1: "thou shalt not kill" .....vs........"pray to Jesus to win the war."

Example 2: "thou shalt not bear false witness". . . vs.. . . falsehood "Niger sold Uranium to Iraq" (implies need for wars with Iraq and Niger).

Example 3: "thou shalt not bear false witness" and "thou shalt not kill" . . . vs. . . . phony Orange alerts to lie us into yet another war with North Korea (falsely asserting that it was the Axis of Evil).

Example 4: "vote for me and I'll stop the killing of fetuses"....vs. ....kill soldiers & block help from hurricane victims (deadly sin of sloth....apathy).

Satan uses deception, greed, fear, and lust to motivate wars.

Atheism trumps following Satan.

Following Satan is a package deal. You get wars, but also get a bad economy (ignore homeless), and destroy God's environment (pollute, warm the globe). This is why the world is a mess with the Religious Right in charge.

 

[firedragon]

So again, your question is: Why is it a bad thing to believe things that are not true (comports with reality)?

Nope. Thats a strawman you are building to make a bogus analogy of "people who think drinking is poison is good" or "battery water".

Thanks for engaging. End of discussion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I don't know if better. We'd just have a different set of stories.
We humans like our stories about how the universe began, what happens when we die.
Religion happens when we've managed to convince ourselves some of these stories are true.

Certainly we construct narratives, to make sense of the world, to help us navigate our way through it, and to give meaning and purpose to our lives.

Everyone does this, often unconsciously, but by no means everyone is aware of doing it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I don't know if better. We'd just have a different set of stories.
We humans like our stories about how the universe began, what happens when we die.
Religion happens when we've managed to convince ourselves some of these stories are true.

Well, the idea of truth is not limited to religion.

 

[Clara Tea]

The Mongol invasions were very destructive as well, yet religion was not their drive.
They didn't even care what people believed under their rule.

Religion in Mongolia — Mongolia Tours & Travel 2022/2023

Mongolia has been dominated by two religions (according to the link above): Buddhism, and Shamanism.

Genghis Khan

These built the Mongol empire, though certainly the Mongols did not follow the teachings of Buddha when they raided.

Genghis Khan, born 1162 between Mongolia and Siberia.

Genghis Khan

Khan (and successors) felt that they were Chinese emperors, by establishing the Yuan Dynasty.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Genghis-Khan&usg=AOvVaw0C5OwHdNxEO5VSRiahZVuY

"Khan was born Temujin to a royal clan of the Mongols" (per link above).

 

[Clara Tea]

Can you provide some statistics to say that? Say statistics for the past 200 years at least?

If not, it's a miracle that God hid the info.

 

[AppieB]

Nope. Thats a strawman you are building to make a bogus analogy of "people who think drinking is poison is good" or "battery water".

Thanks for engaging. End of discussion.

The argument started with:
I say yes, simply because it stops people from believing things they do not have good evidence for.

You: How does that make the world a better place?

So your question is: how does stop believing things they do not have good evidence for, make the world a better place?

Simple: If you stop believing things you do not have good evidence for, the chance you believe 'wrong things' is lower.
It's better because people inform their actions on their belief. The more their beliefs comport with reality, the better decisions they make for that reality. That's it. Not so difficult to understand.

 

[firedragon]

So your question is: how does stop believing things they do not have good evidence for, make the world a better place?

Nope.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The argument started with:
I say yes, simply because it stops people from believing things they do not have good evidence for.

You: How does that make the world a better place?

So your question is: how does stop believing things they do not have good evidence for, make the world a better place?

Simple: If you stop believing things you do not have good evidence for, the chance you believe 'wrong things' is lower.
It's better because people inform their actions on their belief. The more their beliefs comport with reality, the better decisions they make for that reality. That's it. Not so difficult to understand.

Well, does that have a limit? I.e. Can all beliefs comport with reality?
I mean I can do it for some of my beliefs, but not all. What about you?

 

[Clara Tea]

We never know. It's hard to tell. It also depends upon what you mean by religion. I think religion is the repetitive adherence to a set of principles. That only becomes harmful when one set disagrees with the other. If you're talking about organized religion I would say yes. We would defiantly be better off without it. Better because of how it is used as a tool politically for destruction and division. Worse for the small degree of good it has done. The good and the bad could have been done without it though.

I agree.

Theists believe without proof. So, many are chumps who will swallow anything that they are told. They don't use deductive reasoning. This makes them perfect patsies for unscrupulous politicians who will get their vote (to follow God. . . end abortion, take rights from Gays, force their religion in schools in lieu of science, lie about scientific facts of global warming), then follow Satan instead (war, environmental destruction, homeless).

 

[Clara Tea]

I think the world would probably be better without Judaism, Christianity and Islam today, however I voted im not sure, because even though those religions seem to be regressive forces now, they may have brought some degree of progress in their time.

Then there is the fact that not all religions are like Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Plus there are other considerations such as that some things we wouldn't ordinarily consider religions are difficult to distinguish from religions in some ways, even though they are not revealed.

In my opinion.

Rome had crucified bodies lining the roads. They threw Christians to lions for public sport. You'd think that Christian values would have civilized them. Yet, look at the wars that we motivate with fear, greed, and lies today.

 

[AppieB]

Nope.

I say yes, simply because it stops people from believing things they do not have good evidence for.

You: How does that make the world a better place?

that refers to: it stops people from believing things they do not have good evidence for

Now let's replace that with the first sentence:
How does it stops people from believing things they do not have good evidence for make the world a better place?

That's the same as I said, only I improved the sentence grammatically.
So your question is: how does stop believing things they do not have good evidence for, make the world a better place?

Don't think you are being honest.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

These built the Mongol empire, though certainly the Mongols did not follow the teachings of Buddha when they raided.

Buddhism wasn't adopted into their culture when they started their raids.
It made its entry with the establishment of the Yuan Dynasty.