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Would the World be Better Off Without Organized Religions?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Personally organized religion should be abolished. Yes. But it is good for some people so no. I do not know the advantages of it. The disadvantages I see are they promote division, and teach trust in lies. People should not trust lies imo. And the world should not be divided.
The word, "abolish", strongly suggests that someone would impose it upon
others, since many naturally flock to organization on a large scale.
So I vote against abolishing it (too much oppression required).
others, since many naturally flock to organization on a large scale.
So I vote against abolishing it (too much oppression required).
Brinne
Active Member
^ This.
Personally, I believe organized religion it self isn't the problem; corrupt leaders are. Using the crusades and the middle ages as an argument against organized religion is like using Hitler's regime as an argument against government in general. The problem is corruption, greed, and selfishness within these organizations, not the organizations themselves.
How do organized religions promote division? Is it something they always do?
This is similar to my first thought. Who would do the abolishing? Some people believe God will do it but only to every other one but their own.
Do you foresee a time when human nature is such that corruption, greed, and selfishness in the leadership of organized religions will not be a major concern or problem?
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
Since I love my own organized religion I have to say no.
By their existance and their believing their way is the righteous way. What religion does not claim righteousness? If they believe it of themselves, logic says all the others are wrong. Considering someone else wrong is a division. When isn't it?
The question could easily be rephrased as, "Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if organized religions didn't exist?" And in order to avoid more mindless debate over the meaning of "abolished" that's exactly what I'm going to do.
hear hear! :cigar:
Brinne
Active Member
I believe so. We're all born pure and good however there are some who stray from the path of kindness, acceptance, and goodness. These are some who stray so far from the track that it makes it seem like a world of peace and kindness is impossible; but I assure you it'll appear one day.
Just remember, civilization is relatively young in comparison to the Earth and the universe. Generally with lack of age comes immaturity. I like to think we're just going through a very long period of teenage angst.
There was a TV program a few years ago that asked scientists, intellectuals, and other such folks to characterize our species in terms of human maturity -- and almost all of them said what you just said -- that we were going through our teen years.
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Brinne
Active Member
It does make sense if you look at it that way. It's also a less pessimistic view of humanity and allows some hope for the future; no matter how far away that future may be.
Perhaps government oppression is a bigger issue which piques the interest of some,
& not a mere "mindless" diversion. But if the subject is solely about existence of large
scale organization, I'd be OK without it. Organized, they more effectively lobby for
things I dislike, eg, blue laws, censorship, foreign adventurism.
Back to the OP, I'll make a couple of assumptions:
1 - You were referring to the world's known collection of religions and not some new, as yet created ones.
2 - By "religion" you mean belief systems that have at least some tenets that must be accepted "on faith" and without evidence.
If I got those correct, then I'd say that we can't and shouldn't forcibly "abolish" religion, but we should humanely marginalize it, until it's become a minor player in the affairs of humanity.
Such a shift would help humanity come to agree on the universal morality we all mostly agree on already. Religions block us from finding our common, positive morals. They should be marginalized (humanely).
Religions ALSO typically involve some form of "clergy" or middlemen. Given the kinds of questions religions attempt to grapple with, this setup is almost guaranteed to promote corruption.
1 - You were referring to the world's known collection of religions and not some new, as yet created ones.
2 - By "religion" you mean belief systems that have at least some tenets that must be accepted "on faith" and without evidence.
If I got those correct, then I'd say that we can't and shouldn't forcibly "abolish" religion, but we should humanely marginalize it, until it's become a minor player in the affairs of humanity.
Such a shift would help humanity come to agree on the universal morality we all mostly agree on already. Religions block us from finding our common, positive morals. They should be marginalized (humanely).
Religions ALSO typically involve some form of "clergy" or middlemen. Given the kinds of questions religions attempt to grapple with, this setup is almost guaranteed to promote corruption.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Everybody knows my answer so I won't repeat myself but when it comes to organized religions that exist on a mass scale like the major 2, they cannot exist without scale and organization. Their size and order is there appeal, people feel as if they are in a collective with such religions.
Christians gather by the thousands and Muslims tens of thousands when during Hajj. The sense of community is a major bonus when it comes to religion but you could easily do this without a religion, look at politics or conventions for example
Christians gather by the thousands and Muslims tens of thousands when during Hajj. The sense of community is a major bonus when it comes to religion but you could easily do this without a religion, look at politics or conventions for example
Advantages: Sense of community, sharing of religious knowledge, some easing of solidarity.
Disadvantages: In practice, many simply do not try to take care of the quality of the beliefs of their members. Others are outright corrupted.
To be fair, unorganized religion is often even worse.
I would have to know or guess what would happen instead, and what exactly would stop them from wider organization.
Let's assume for the sake of argument that it is because people are unrealistically wise - for millenia no less - and simply refused to grant legitimacy to attempts at establishing "distant" religious leadership.
Then it would be far better off, I think, although to be fair the factors that made that organization impossible would play a far greater role than the lack of organization itself.
It is interesting to speculate what the political results would be. Europe would be very different, but I have no idea how much so and whether that would be overall a good or a bad thing. It might turn out a bit less politically stable at first, but on the other hand Monarchy might be both less self-entitled, less bloodthirsty and last a lot less. But who knows really?
The Great Navigations would probably be a bit more explicitly commercial, and might perhaps have developed even earlier. It depends on the demographical results of the lack of God-inspired wars. Slavery would IMO begin far earlier and last a lot less. Science would probably develop faster, particularly anthropology and sociology. The concept of Nation would probably take a lot longer to develop or even never have happened, what IMO is a very big boon.
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outhouse
Atheistically
The limits of science and education placed by theist should be outlawed as crimes against humanity, dragging us backwards.
All great advancements made in the world today were done by religious freedom.
I feel sorry for those not free from the binds of religion, limiting freedom.
It seems to me the problem is humans, not government, not religion, not education, not monetary system, just plain old humans.
If organized religions were gone humans would do the same with whatever was left. The advantages and disadvantages are the same as the differences between humans. In fact what one human considers a disadvantage another considers an advantage.
Humans need to learn acceptance of what is different for societies benefit. This is contrary to evolution which is concerned with the self and so extremely hard to do. We use government, religion, education and money to aid us inefficiently. Removing one tool is only going to make us rely on the others more heavily.