Your knowledge of early Christianity is faulty.karmel19 said:
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Would the world be better off without religion?
- Thread starter apostle_ndr
- Start date
wizenheimer69
New Member
The world is better for having religion. It does give people the hope that there is something better after this life and/or in their next life. It would do everyone who makes it their goal to impose thier beliefs to understand that religion is usually meant to be on a personal level and not to be imposed on everyone around them.
Christians might find this offensive seeing as how Jesus basically told his followers to go forth and spread the word. But if they would remember correctly, their Old Testament basically tells them that they will ultimately answer for their actions INDIVIDUALLY in the afterlife.
Religion is better if kept to yourself.
Christians might find this offensive seeing as how Jesus basically told his followers to go forth and spread the word. But if they would remember correctly, their Old Testament basically tells them that they will ultimately answer for their actions INDIVIDUALLY in the afterlife.
Religion is better if kept to yourself.
MdmSzdWhtGuy
Well-Known Member
Wow, what a thread. Just finished reading it from beginning to end, kind of like watching a rollercoaster.
Your original question "Would the world be better off without religion?" Yes.
IMHO, although religion can and does has its purposes for good, its purposes for evil, and the capacity of leaders to use religious fervor for evil far outweigh any good it produces. I am not about to say that all religious people are bad, any more than I am going to say that all left-handed people are bad.
However, the fact remains that there are a bunch of fanatical people in the world, who are doing very evil things, such as bombing abortion clinics in America (Christian kooks) to flying planes into the world trade towers (Islamic kooks) to cutting the heads off Indonesian schoolgirls (Islamic kooks again). These things are being done in the name of religion. These are but a few recent examples of a pattern of violence which extends back throughout human history.
A breif look at history in the form of a basic Early Western Civilization class which most of us took our freshman year of college, will show that the history of the world, is written as a history of the world's wars and a history of the world's religions, and it is hard to ignore the correlation between the two.
It is also easy to see that the big 3 religions which dominate western society today were not around for the vast majority of human history. The last 1400 years (Islam), 2000 years (Christianity) and 6000 years (Judaism) are but a razor thin slice of human history. There has been religions from the dawn of the frontal lobe, and sadly there will likely be religion, and the misuse of it by those who hunger for power for the rest of recorded history.
I think it is an interesting exercise in mental gymnastics to debate such a subject as "would the world be better off without religion" tho ridding the world of it is about as realistic as ridding the world of the common cold.
Looks like you have had very few supporters of your position, Mr. Thread Starter. Count me amongst the few who think that religion has done more harm than good. If there were no religion, then people would be in the uncomfortable position of having to do the right thing with respect to their fellow man, simply because it is the right thing to do. We would have to be a decent human being, not because of fear of some retribution by a cosmic boogeyman, but because it brings us pleasure to treat others nicely, and in return to be treated nicely by them.
Keep up the debate. Loved the quotes from the founding fathers, Voltaire and others.
B.
Your original question "Would the world be better off without religion?" Yes.
IMHO, although religion can and does has its purposes for good, its purposes for evil, and the capacity of leaders to use religious fervor for evil far outweigh any good it produces. I am not about to say that all religious people are bad, any more than I am going to say that all left-handed people are bad.
However, the fact remains that there are a bunch of fanatical people in the world, who are doing very evil things, such as bombing abortion clinics in America (Christian kooks) to flying planes into the world trade towers (Islamic kooks) to cutting the heads off Indonesian schoolgirls (Islamic kooks again). These things are being done in the name of religion. These are but a few recent examples of a pattern of violence which extends back throughout human history.
A breif look at history in the form of a basic Early Western Civilization class which most of us took our freshman year of college, will show that the history of the world, is written as a history of the world's wars and a history of the world's religions, and it is hard to ignore the correlation between the two.
It is also easy to see that the big 3 religions which dominate western society today were not around for the vast majority of human history. The last 1400 years (Islam), 2000 years (Christianity) and 6000 years (Judaism) are but a razor thin slice of human history. There has been religions from the dawn of the frontal lobe, and sadly there will likely be religion, and the misuse of it by those who hunger for power for the rest of recorded history.
I think it is an interesting exercise in mental gymnastics to debate such a subject as "would the world be better off without religion" tho ridding the world of it is about as realistic as ridding the world of the common cold.
Looks like you have had very few supporters of your position, Mr. Thread Starter. Count me amongst the few who think that religion has done more harm than good. If there were no religion, then people would be in the uncomfortable position of having to do the right thing with respect to their fellow man, simply because it is the right thing to do. We would have to be a decent human being, not because of fear of some retribution by a cosmic boogeyman, but because it brings us pleasure to treat others nicely, and in return to be treated nicely by them.
Keep up the debate. Loved the quotes from the founding fathers, Voltaire and others.
B.
BeautifulMind
Member
BEAUTIFUL!! :clapapostle_ndr said:My first post. Sorry to start a new thread on a topic already touched by Fire Empire, but I think Fire Empire didn't do justice for the question by limiting it to Christianity and asking from a truly hypothetical standpoint. So, I'll start by saying, like FE, that this is not to offend but to enlighten. I'll use quotes from reliable figures to accentuate my points because nobody says it with more impact than dead people.
First, a lot of people do need religion I know. People afraid of the unknown are forced to believe in something that lightens this fear, that gives them hope for something better. I'll admit that religion not only sprung from fear, but also from oppression.
"Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?" - Arthur C. Clarke
Second, it could be argued that religion does no harm. On the flipside, religion does GREAT harm. It limits us intellectually, prevents us from discovering new things, and creates barriers between social classes. Every religion despite it's original intentions does more harm than good by creating social dysfunction and holding back progress.
"I do think the Roman Catholic religion is a disease of the mind which has a particular epidemiology similar to that of a virus... Religion is a terrific meme. That's right. But that doesn't make it true and I care about what's true. Smallpox virus is a terrific virus. It does its job magnificently well. That doesn't mean that it's a good thing. It doesn't mean that I don't want to see it stamped out." - Richard Dawkins
meme - virus of thought
The commonly accepted picture of a Christian, for example, has changed greatly over the years. How followers can change without their source of beliefs (the bible) changing is beyond me, it's either cultural or political. People can't be expected to still follow the exact same teachings of a 2,000 year old book.. people like to talk about the parts of the Bible that make sense and ignore the parts that don't because, like it or not, Christianity was founded by primitives who didn't know that much about the world (proof that they were not divine or inspired by divinity). This is true of all religions, a religion being no more than a widespread cult whose institutions are not taxed by the government.
Forgive me if these ideas are offensive but I feel they are necessary to explore the topic. I only use Christianity primarily because I'm most familiar with it due to my geographic location, a thousand apologies.
Christians generally dislike the idea of science discovering that the Bible lied. Some like to say that science and faith don't contradict each other at all, but this is similar to saying that a drunk man is as gentle as a sober man. To be a scientist is to seek to know, with knowledge being the opposite of faith. To be faithful is to ignore all opposing proof to maintain selected belief. Thus, the faithful oppose science, oppose knowledge, for fear that it may disprove their own beliefs.
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
"All thinking men are atheists." - Ernest Hemingway
"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense." - Voltaire
Like I said, the image of a Christian has changed.. but why? God didn't come down and revise the Bible. The Christians revised their interpretations to go along with current thinking, and they'll continue to do this as long as scientists and freethinkers continue to discover and create. If a thinking Christian can admit to this, that his religion is indeed not static and that his beliefs are based on society rather than God, what's so wrong about religion? Nothing, but by realizing this the man seeks to be Christian.
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means." - George Bernard Shaw
"It is true that the modern Christian is less robust, but that is not thanks to Christianity; it is thanks to the generations of freethinkers, who, from the Renaissance to the present day, have made Christians ashamed of many of their traditional beliefs." - Bertrand Russell
"Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world." - Voltaire
Not only this, but Christianity (pardon again, I'm used to using this religion) holds back discovery. After Colombus convinced the Queen of Spain to let him sail to India by heading west, there were numerous assassination attempts by crewmembers who wanted to go back for fear of falling over the edge of the world into Hell (because they didn't know any better, just like the Hebrews who threw the Bible together). When Galileo Galilei realized that the earth was revolving around the sun and not the other way around, like the Bible taught, he was put under house arrest for the rest of his life! Current applications, stem cell research and evolution and cloning is being debased by Christians while non-Christian countries are excelling in these programs. With the re-rise of Christianity thanks to the Bush administration and other current leaders who wish to make the U.S. a theocracy, the value of the American dollar is going to drop pretty quickly...
"We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake." - Catherine Fahringer
Forgive me if I offended, but I only seek to enlighten. Your Jesus Christ offended the people in power at the time, can't I be doing the same thing? I'll leave you with a few more quotes and sorry for using so many. You can say that I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, won't bother me none
"The pioneers and missionaries of religion have been the real cause of more trouble and war than all other classes of mankind." - Edgar Allen Poe
"During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry." - Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)
ok ,i am feeling lazy and have not read all of the posts in this thread , but rather than the bible being outdated as the original poster said , i feel that it is bang up to date because the bible says that the world empire of false religion will come to its end, and the main part of false religion is christendom, she is the most guilty of the lot because she claims to represent the God of the bible .in the bible , in revelation 18;4. (Babylon the great) is the world empire of false religion ,,and Gods people are now being told to get out of her .why? because she is going to be destroyed by God, so yes i agree that religion is the coarse of many problems on this earth, and God also is not happy with it ,that is why she is soon to be put out the way for Good .infact the bible tells me that she has already fallen ,in that she has no power over Gods true worshipers but her destruction is yet to come ,so if we dont want to be a part of her its best to get out of her now while we still have the chance
And I heard another voice out of heaven say: "Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. ....revelation 18;4
(Jeremiah 51:6) "FLEE out of the midst of Babylon, and provide escape each one for his own soul. Do not be rendered inanimate through her error. For it is the time of vengeance belonging to Jehovah. There is treatment that he is paying back to her
(2 Corinthians 6:17) "Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, says Jehovah, and quit touching the unclean thing"; "and I will take YOU in.
And I heard another voice out of heaven say: "Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. ....revelation 18;4
(Jeremiah 51:6) "FLEE out of the midst of Babylon, and provide escape each one for his own soul. Do not be rendered inanimate through her error. For it is the time of vengeance belonging to Jehovah. There is treatment that he is paying back to her
(2 Corinthians 6:17) "Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, says Jehovah, and quit touching the unclean thing"; "and I will take YOU in.
Define religion?
Personally i feel we all need something or someone to believe in and without this we lose a crucial/defining part of ourselves. I hate all of the suffering and anguish that happens in our world today in the name of religion and it does none of our beliefs any favours. Yet i still strongly believe that "that" something in all of us makes the world go round and hopefully a better place....well i hope so anyway!
Personally i feel we all need something or someone to believe in and without this we lose a crucial/defining part of ourselves. I hate all of the suffering and anguish that happens in our world today in the name of religion and it does none of our beliefs any favours. Yet i still strongly believe that "that" something in all of us makes the world go round and hopefully a better place....well i hope so anyway!