Would you denounce your beliefs if tortured?

[tomspug]

During the Holocaust, Jews were tortured and commanded to deny their God. There are also examples of Protestants in France who endured the same thing during the Nazi occupation. Of course, history supplies us with endless examples of one faith attempting to use power to destroy belief.

Would you refuse to denounce your beliefs publicly (and even accept another) if forced to endure torture?

 

[Dunemeister]

How could anyone answer that question in advance?

 

[little_monkey]

During the Holocaust, Jews were tortured and commanded to deny their God. There are also examples of Protestants in France who endured the same thing during the Nazi occupation. Of course, history supplies us with endless examples of one faith attempting to use power to destroy belief.

Would you refuse to denounce your beliefs publicly (and even accept another) if forced to endure torture?

Beliefs are never 100% certain. So why die for something that might be wrong?

 

[3.14]

ofcourse. how would they check if you truly believed it?
though if it was just the principle i would say f them my principles are more important

 

[YmirGF]

I might agree to suspend the public expression of my beliefs and even openly adopt the ludicrous ideas of others if it would end persecution against me. I don't actually have to change an iota of what I REALLY think, to do so. I would cease to do so, of course, at the earliest possible moment. Forgive me, but I do not put much stock into the concept of dead martrys.

In reality though, I do not know how long I could keep up such a charade as I am a teensy bit outspoken. I would have to treat the whole excercise as an acting role and determine little ways I could work against those who would have me turn my back on what I know.

The song by Pink Floyd called Animals expresses my thinking here rather well:

You gotta be crazy, you gotta have a real need.
You gotta sleep on your toes, and when you're on the street,
You gotta be able to pick out the easy meat with your eyes closed.
And then moving in silently, down wind and out of sight,
You gotta strike when the moment is right without thinking.

And after a while, you can work on points for style.
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.
You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.

 

[Heneni]

I would ask them to describe the god they want me to denounce.

If it isnt my god, id denouce him. No point in being tortured for a god I dont think exists.

However, if they asked me to denounce the fact that Jesus christ was the messiah...id be in trouble. He is my messiah.

The next guy might not think so....for him, hed be asked to denounce allah....or die.

But the nature of torturers, is not to get the facts. The slightests suspision could mean torture anyway. I dont think they will wait for me to denounce my faith.

If they expected me to turn away from my faith, and embrace another, i would find god in the next religion anyway. However, i would not convert to the same faith as the torturer. God isnt trying to kill me.

You dont have to be pushed in a corner to become a target for the forces of evil. Your light is shining, and you cant exactly switch your spirit off. So unfortunately satan is constantly busy trying to make life misserable for the light bearers. There is a great deal of torture going on already.

 

[Phasmid]

Would you refuse to denounce your beliefs publicly (and even accept another) if forced to endure torture?

Screw that. I'd say anything they wanted me to. What difference does it make? You can't FORCE someone to believe something. If I believed in God and they said, "Say you don't, or I'll saw your knee caps off" I'd deny God's existence in a heartbeat.

I see no value in enduring all that pain for a simple lie. Being terrified wouldn't change my belief in God, it'd just change what I say to people.

It's a lie - not a conversion.

 

[Halcyon]

Would you denounce your beliefs if tortured?

Yes.

 

[tomspug]

How about if someone told you to say "I don't believe these things anymore. I was a fool to believe them, and I would encourage all of my friends and family to change their beliefs to this new religion."?

 

[Scott1]

Would you denounce your beliefs if tortured?

Yes.

.... heck, I'd do it BEFORE the torture started.

 

[Phasmid]

How about if someone told you to say "I don't believe these things anymore. I was a fool to believe them, and I would encourage all of my friends and family to change their beliefs to this new religion."?

Yes, they're just words...

And double YES if it meant sparing my friends and family pain and suffering.

What's there to gain from the alternative? Would God want you to be in agnony for no good reason?

 

[Scott1]

What's there to gain from the alternative? Would God want you to be in agnony for no good reason?

Well said.... I believe God wants us to protect ALL life, and that includes our own.... and no amount of torture can actually change what you believe.

 

[Willamena]

How about if someone told you to say "I don't believe these things anymore. I was a fool to believe them, and I would encourage all of my friends and family to change their beliefs to this new religion."?

If you're going to lie, the length of the statement(s) hardly matters.

 

[Father Heathen]

During the Holocaust, Jews were tortured and commanded to deny their God. There are also examples of Protestants in France who endured the same thing during the Nazi occupation. Of course, history supplies us with endless examples of one faith attempting to use power to destroy belief.

Would you refuse to denounce your beliefs publicly (and even accept another) if forced to endure torture?

I'm sure most people would lie to avoid torture (and any reasonable god would excuse them for it), but I don't think anyone would have a sincere change in beliefs. Beliefs just don't work that way. They're something that simply cannot be forced or coerced.

 

[Jayell]

Yes, they're just words...

And double YES if it meant sparing my friends and family pain and suffering.

What's there to gain from the alternative? Would God want you to be in agnony for no good reason?

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear Him which after He has killed has power to cast into hell; yes, I say unto you Fear Him." ( Luke 12:4-5)

 

[Father Heathen]

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear Him which after He has killed has power to cast into hell; yes, I say unto you Fear Him." ( Luke 12:4-5)

Wow, that's pretty creepy and sick that god would rather see children tortured for the sake of his own ego. And we're supposed to praise that garbage?

 

[ax0547]

Ha ha you guys are just awesome. i would never do it, I would rather endure torture - I ahve the right the to freedom and free thinking no matter how chilidish it may seem. All and all I would fight for you guysifI you ask me for help - regardless of your religion , thinking or gender. That is the sole reason the Khalsa was created.

Though I would also listen to the opppsitions arguments to reevaulate mine and choose which is better, but by force I would never do it rather through disscusions!

 

[Willamena]

Ha ha you guys are just awesome. i would never do it, I would rather endure torture - I ahve the right the to freedom and free thinking no matter how chilidish it may seem. All and all I would fight for you guysifI you ask me for help - regardless of your religion , thinking or gender. That is the sole reason the Khalsa was created.

Though I would also listen to the opppsitions arguments to reevaulate mine and choose which is better, but by force I would never do it rather through disscusions!

Is the right to freedom and free thinking endangered by a lie?

Edit: For the record, my belief in God is not supported or endangered by any religions, so to renounce it, for me, would be just words. There are beliefs I would go down fighting for, but religion is not one of them.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... I do not put much stock into the concept of dead martrys...

Especially when the dead martyr is me.

 

[Phasmid]

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear Him which after He has killed has power to cast into hell; yes, I say unto you Fear Him." ( Luke 12:4-5)

I seem to remember another passage that says something like, "And whoever doesn't deny me, I will not deny him to my Father; but whoever denies me I will say to the Father, 'I do not know him!'".

But don't quote me on that.