Would you die for your beliefs?

[Smart_Guy]

Just to let you know, in Islam, it is allowed to lie and do/say the forbidden if you fear death. All you have to do is saying it without believing it.

But only if you absolutely have no choice, and you do it only as much as needed just to avoid death.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So much for "Death before Dishonor".

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I am talking about whatever it is that is most important to you. Your religion, you lack of religion. Your politics, whatever. If you were threatened with death if you refused to renounce your beliefs, what would you do? Would you die? or would you submit?

I don't put enough value on beliefs to lose my life for them, and even if I did, I wouldn't leave my wife and daughter because of some misplaced sense of stubborn idealism. I'm too pragmatic and not selfish enough to do something so ridiculous.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If it was a situation where I was already in custody and had to choose between renouncing my beliefs and getting let go or refusinv and being executed, I'd probably renounce them temporarily but proclaim them again once I was free.

If we're talking about a situation where defending my beliefs would mean taking on a high level of personal risk, sure, there are lots of beliefs I hold that I'd do that for.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I am talking about whatever it is that is most important to you. Your religion, you lack of religion. Your politics, whatever. If you were threatened with death if you refused to renounce your beliefs, what would you do? Would you die? or would you submit?

For some of my beliefs yes. Yes I would die. Not for atheism. That seems a bit silly. But for secular morality, reason, scientific literacy and oppositions to humanity.

 

[Nakosis]

I am talking about whatever it is that is most important to you. Your religion, you lack of religion. Your politics, whatever. If you were threatened with death if you refused to renounce your beliefs, what would you do? Would you die? or would you submit?

No, renouncing my beliefs doesn't mean they'll actually change. I don't care what others want to think I believe. Hold a gun to my head, I'll tell you whatever you want to hear. It means nothing.

 

[Adstar]

I am talking about whatever it is that is most important to you. Your religion, you lack of religion. Your politics, whatever. If you were threatened with death if you refused to renounce your beliefs, what would you do? Would you die? or would you submit?

I hope if the time comes i am given the courage to die for the Faith.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

I am talking about whatever it is that is most important to you. Your religion, you lack of religion. Your politics, whatever. If you were threatened with death if you refused to renounce your beliefs, what would you do? Would you die? or would you submit?

Seeing as I've cast my lot in with pagans, yes I would, rather than be bullied into centuries of silence again. I'd also die if I lived in a state that required me to renounce my sexuality. Live proud, die proud.

 

[Sleeppy]

I've died once.. I'm on my way again.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Just to let you know, in Islam, it is allowed to lie and do/say the forbidden if you fear death. All you have to do is saying it without believing it.

But only if you absolutely have no choice, and you do it only as much as needed just to avoid death.

That was a big no no in the Christian tradition. As an atheist I like that view on it, but I believe I read for example that if a crusader failed to win a mission, he was some kind of blasphemer if he returned alive from whatever battle he was losing.

 

[gnostic]

I am talking about whatever it is that is most important to you. Your religion, you lack of religion. Your politics, whatever. If you were threatened with death if you refused to renounce your beliefs, what would you do? Would you die? or would you submit?

That really depends on whatever belief I have.

I certainly wouldn't die for any religion or to some invisible deities that may not even exist.

But the real question is not so much if you would die for your belief, but are you willing to kill for your belief?

Would you take another life or group of lives because of your belief?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Seeing as I've cast my lot in with pagans, yes I would, rather than be bullied into centuries of silence again. I'd also die if I lived in a state that required me to renounce my sexuality. Live proud, die proud.

I'd be accepting of paganism so long as the new pagan power wouldn't also silence and bully the philosopher, but work together with them this time.

 

[Yerda]

I don't put enough value on beliefs to lose my life for them, and even if I did, I wouldn't leave my wife and daughter because of some misplaced sense of stubborn idealism. I'm too pragmatic and not selfish enough to do something so ridiculous.

I agree with this.

 

[Sees]

Hopefully people don't strawman the "yes" position as a blunt, dull one with lack of tactics, intelligence, common sense, etc.

To fight till the last breath for freedom and honor doesn't mean you necessarily charge head on into a quick death. Obviously most don't want martyrdom aside from last/worse case scenario.

For most who would die for their own beliefs and freedom - what makes me even more proud is that they would do the same for others.

There will always be conflict and people willing and wanting to dominate you - dying in submission as a type of possession later on isn't worth much. Depth of life is worth much more than length of life.

 

[Smart_Guy]

That was a big no no in the Christian tradition. As an atheist I like that view on it, but I believe I read for example that if a crusader failed to win a mission, he was some kind of blasphemer if he returned alive from whatever battle he was losing.

Hmm.. I thought in Christianity they valued life dearly. My thought is that dying for honor is never honorable unless the intention was to not really die but to achieve something good. Also, being suicidal is different than suicide it self, I believe. An example for that is desperately risking one's life as a last resort defending religion or family and accidentally die in the process (suicidal) vs. blowing one's self up to take out the threat with them (suicide). The former (being suicidal) I believe is acceptable and the latter (suicide) is not. The latter is actually forbidden in Islam. Yeah, those mislead kamekaze Muslims blowing themselves up are committing a grave sin Islam seriously forbids.

In Islam, failing a mission is not punishable or looked down at, unless it was due to irresponsibility or running away for no reason. Even then, if there is a punishment or shame, it would be not a religious issue, but a social disciplinary issue. Kinda like failing in a job in our daily lives and receive scolding from the boss or something. But blasphemy? nope, never even close.

My beliefs

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Hmm.. I thought in Christianity they valued life dearly. My thought is that dying for honor is never honorable unless the intention was to not really die but to achieve something good. Also, being suicidal is different than suicide it self, I believe. An example for that is desperately risking one's life as a last resort defending religion or family and accidentally die in the process (suicidal) vs. blowing one's self up to take out the threat with them (suicide). The former (being suicidal) I believe is acceptable and the latter (suicide) is not. The latter is actually forbidden in Islam. Yeah, those mislead kamekaze Muslims blowing themselves up are committing a grave sin Islam seriously forbids.

* I like the Islamic view you gave on it, though I am an atheist - if my writing doesn't make that clear enough to readers. No but I believe it was the 'Knights Templar' who had that rule of no fleeing, I'm struggling to reference it but my memory tells me that's correct. The old christianity trusted so much in providence, 'having an armor of faith,' that if you died in battle it was somehow spiritually ordained. In Christianity the word 'life' always means something metaphysical, and that is what they valued, so it was important that they died 'correctly.'

The suicide type that is martyrdom is something that was always central to the christian faith. If your captors got to you, you were expected to always confess, that is what conferred your saint-hood. What's more, for centuries this 'valiant' act is apparently what so impressed others so as to convert them, it was the argumentum ad passiones, the strange appeal of finding truth in the drama. Take for example St. Alban drying up the river to cross it and quicken his beheading, well it wasn't the miracle which impressed and converted the Roman soldier, but it was his devotion.

Where did this style of faith come from? Perhaps it was preshadowed in the suicide of Saul, or greek drama, or something else it is hard to tell. The first real significant though oft ignored instance of it to occured in the transitional period between Judaism and Christianity, in the books of the Maccabees (some truly appalling and hair-raising martyrdoms occur in there). For Islam as you say, it is different, there is a lot less emphasis on an encouragement to suffer in death, and in that way it is probably similar to Judaism. So as for suicide bombers, I have no idea what's running through their minds, but unlike in christianity it doesn't seem like they were trying to 'impress' with their death, but rather just attack and avoid consequences? Where do they get that being a kamikaze is a good idea, that is kind of baffling?

 

[Sir Doom]

I'd like to think so. Who can say for certain how we will act when the chips are really down?

 

[Buttercup]

Personally, I wouldn't die for any belief, ideology, philosophy or religion. What folly and waste of my life.

I would, however, strongly consider dying for a random stranger in trouble and most certainly would consider dying for my family and some friends.

 

[Buttercup]

Personally, I wouldn't die for any belief, ideology, philosophy or religion. What folly and waste of my life.

I would, however, strongly consider dying for a random stranger in trouble and most certainly would consider dying for my family and some friends.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

Personally, I wouldn't die for any belief, ideology, philosophy or religion. What folly and waste of life.

So you'd rather live being false to yourself? There really are worse things than death.