Would you force someone to do something to save someone else?

[Trailblazer]

How many people would get an abortion if they thought that they were gestating a kitten or a new purse?
People get elective abortions because they know perfectly well that they're gestating a human being.
Tom

And they do not give a rip.
I find that morally reprehensible and utterly selfish.
God help them.

 

[charlie sc]

Although that wasn't the question, yes, assuming the only alternative was to kill the child. Pro-lifers like myself believe the fetus is a living human, so induced abortion is morally equivalent to murder. Having to be pregnant for 9+ months isn't worse than being killed, so if you get yourself pregnant, killing the person you created isn't right.

If two people are attached together and one considers such an inconvenience, I don't see how killing one of them is okay.

Are you really killing the fetus if it cannot survive without you? In one of the posts I explained this fairly well. I'll create an analogy I don't particularly like but here: A leech attaches itself to you. If you remove it, it dies. If you leave it, it lives. Are you killing it by removing it or does it just die without you?

 

[Trailblazer]

Although that wasn't the question, yes, assuming the only alternative was to kill the child. Pro-lifers like myself believe the fetus is a living human, so induced abortion is morally equivalent to murder. Having to be pregnant for 9+ months isn't worse than being killed, so if you get yourself pregnant, killing the person you created isn't right.

If two people are attached together and one considers such an inconvenience, I don't see how killing one of them is okay.

I sure wish there was a better rating than Winner.
Thank God for Christians.

 

[Kilk1]

I sure wish there was a better rating than Winner.
Thank God for Christians.

Thank you! You should become a Christian too. If you'd like to study the topic, let me know.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'll create an analogy I don't particularly like but here: A leech attaches itself to you. If you remove it, it dies. If you leave it, it lives. Are you killing it by removing it or does it just die without you?

God help you if you consider a human being equivalent to a leech.

The child did not choose to attach itself to the mother, the mother chose to have sex at the risk of creating another life. Now she is responsible for that life, plain and simple.

It would be much worse if there was no God and no afterlife for that child. Thank God there is.

THE IMMORTALITY OF CHILDREN


Question.—What is the condition of children who die before attaining the age of discretion or before the appointed time of birth?
Answer.—These infants are under the shadow of the favor of God; and as they have not committed any sin and are not soiled with the impurities of the world of nature, they are the centers of the manifestation of bounty, and the Eye of Compassion will be turned upon them.


Some Answered Questions, p. 240

 

[columbus]

I sure wish there was a better rating than Winner.
Thank God for Christians.

I cannot agree with this.
Most of the Christians around here are quite Pro-Death. From war to capital punishment, they generally support death.

And even when it comes to feticide, they don't really oppose it exactly. There are evidence based ways to reduce abortion, such as sex ed and access to contraceptives. They generally oppose those things, preferring to punish women after the fact.
Often, I get the impression that conservative Christian leaders would hate it if abortion went away. They make a ton of money and get a lot of power by railing against abortion, without actually doing anything to prevent it.
Tom

 

[Kilk1]

Are you really killing the fetus if it cannot survive without you? In one of the posts I explained this fairly well. I'll create an analogy I don't particularly like but here: A leech attaches itself to you. If you remove it, it dies. If you leave it, it lives. Are you killing it by removing it or does it just die without you?

You're leaving the leech to die, which indirectly kills it. I don't have any problem with saying I killed the leech. Here's an analogy of my own: A person falls off a cliff but grabs onto your arm just in time. If you just let go, they die; if you hang on and pull them up, you tax your body but save their life.

The way you see it, is it morally permissible to let go of someone who's hanging onto your arm if it results in them falling off the cliff to their death?

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you! You should become a Christian too. If you'd like to study the topic, let me know.

I consider myself a Christian because I believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Thanks, I am always open to learning more about Jesus and the New Testament.

 

[Trailblazer]

I cannot agree with this.
Most of the Christians around here are quite Pro-Death. From war to capital punishment, they generally support death.

And even when it comes to feticide, they don't really oppose it exactly. There are evidence based ways to reduce abortion, such as sex ed and access to contraceptives. They generally oppose those things, preferring to punish women after the fact.
Often, I get the impression that conservative Christian leaders would hate it if abortion went away. They make a ton of money and get a lot of power by railing against abortion, without actually doing anything to prevent it.
Tom

I meant thank God for Christians who actually care about human life.

 

[charlie sc]

God help you if you consider a human being equivalent to a leech.

The child did not choose to attach itself to the mother, the mother chose to have sex at the risk of creating another life. Now she is responsible for that life, plain and simple.

It would be much worse if there was no God and no afterlife for that child. Thank God there is.

THE IMMORTALITY OF CHILDREN


Question.—What is the condition of children who die before attaining the age of discretion or before the appointed time of birth?
Answer.—These infants are under the shadow of the favor of God; and as they have not committed any sin and are not soiled with the impurities of the world of nature, they are the centers of the manifestation of bounty, and the Eye of Compassion will be turned upon them.


Some Answered Questions, p. 240

You don't seem to understand. My OP is to understand how people reason. I can create another analogy if it hurts you so. There are a number of considerations for pro-life vs pro-choice. I'm going step by step. This particular point is about a being, whatever it is, that cannot survive by itself and needs a host. If the host removes the (whatever it is you want to call it), is that considered killing?

 

[columbus]

I meant thank God for Christians who actually care about human life.

I don't see very many of those.
Tom

 

[Kilk1]

I consider myself a Christian because I believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Thanks, I am always open to learning more about Jesus and the New Testament.

I didn't know you considered yourself a Christian. Do you agree with Jesus' statement in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (NKJV)?

 

[columbus]

You don't seem to understand. My OP is to understand how people reason. I can create another analogy if it hurts you so. There are a number of considerations for pro-life vs pro-choice. I'm going step by step. This particular point is about a being, whatever it is, that cannot survive by itself and needs a host. If the host removes the (whatever it is you want to call it), is that considered killing?

You know, I've been slammed for being "emotional" when I referred to an extremely young human being as a "baby".
But then people refer to them as "parasites", and the same people don't see a problem with that.
What's with that?
Tom

 

[Trailblazer]

You don't seem to understand. My OP is to understand how people reason. I can create another analogy if it hurts you so. There are a number of considerations for pro-life vs pro-choice. I'm going step by step. This particular point is about a being, whatever it is, that cannot survive by itself and needs a host. If the host removes the (whatever it is you want to call it), is that considered killing?

Here is another analogy for you.
If a child was left out in the desert to die, as happened in the days of Muhammad before Muhammad put a stop to that practice, and that child could not survive without food and water, would it be considered killing the child?

 

[charlie sc]

You're leaving the leech to die, which indirectly kills it. I don't have any problem with saying I killed the leech.

I wouldn't call it killing and I don't see how you would either. You don't actually kill the leech and it cannot survive without you. You have no control over its physiology. You had to insert that you left it to die, which implies you gave yourself some kind of responsibility over it. However, my hypothetical did not have any other extension.

Here's an analogy of my own: A person falls off a cliff but grabs onto your arm just in time. If you just let go, they die; if you hang on and pull them up, you tax your body but save their life.

I would save them, but I wouldn't expect another person to. I find this analogy interesting. Please answer this: do you put responsibility in the person that being held onto to save them?

The way you see it, is it morally permissible to let go of someone who's hanging onto your arm if it results in them falling off the cliff to their death?

Yes.

Did they consent to saving you?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't see very many of those.
Tom

I don't really know because I do not talk much to Christians about abortion.
But most Christians I have talked with about it are pro-life.

 

[charlie sc]

You know, I've been slammed for being "emotional" when I referred to an extremely young human being as a "baby".
But then people refer to them as "parasites", and the same people don't see a problem with that.
What's with that?
Tom

lol, I think a fetus can be considered a parasite since it fits the definition perfectly. I could be wrong tho.

 

[Trailblazer]

I didn't know you considered yourself a Christian. Do you agree with Jesus' statement in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (NKJV)?

I believe that Jesus was the Only Way to the Father during His Dispensation, but I do not believe that Jesus was the Only Way for all time.

 

[columbus]

lol, I think a fetus can be considered a parasite since it fits the definition perfectly. I could be wrong tho.

But not baby?

A few months of a parasitic stage is part of being a human. Everybody does it.
Tom

 

[charlie sc]

Here is another analogy for you.
If a child was left out in the desert to die, as happened in the days of Muhammad before Muhammad put a stop to that practice, and that child could not survive without food and water, would it be considered killing the child?

I think this example needs more detail, but I would say yes. At some point a parent will take responsibility for that child. I'd assume at birth. This responsibility has been ignored or rejected in this scenario. In the case of the leech and the falling arm scenario, there was no responsibility accepted for another beings life.