Would You Lie To

[Dr. Nosophoros]

your children to support what you have instilled in their heads?
This thread stems from the recent death of my father who lost his battle with lung cancer and my being ****** off at my brother for choosing to lie to his children in the name of his chosen belief at that time and ignoring an old mans dying request. We were never a religious family but it was never discouraged, my brother only chose his current belief system IMHO at the request of his wife whom I actually adore but disagree with on many points. The problem is that I feel that anyone should die as they choose if possible and my fathers two requests were to not become a vegetable and to die at home, he got both. The problem in my mind started when hospice workers asked if he wanted a priest to do this and that over my fathers body when the time came, since neither my mother or father were religious the random acts of a generic shaman were refused. My brother seemed to have a problem with this according to his new skin and even tried to pressure my mother at (in my mind) the worst time possible, she took a stand and said "no priests". In the end he died exactly as he chose, not as a vegetable and at home we administered him morphine, Atropine, and everything else under the sun every hour on the hour until we watched him take his last breath. My brother brought his children over afterwards and explained to them that grandpa went to heaven because jesus always gives second chances so he accepted jesus just before he died, I wanted to kick his *** at this point but I felt it wasn't the time or the place

So in the end how far will you go to justify your beliefs in your childrens heads?

 

[lunakilo]

your children to support what you have instilled in their heads?

So in the end how far will you go to justify your beliefs in your childrens heads?

I have this belief that lying is bad. So it would be strange to choose to lie in order to justify not lying... (Not sure is that made any sense)

I consider lying to a friend/person who trusts you one of the worst things you can do.
I cannot think of a situation where I would lie to my children.
If I neded to lie in order to convience my children of something then I would say I had a big problem.

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

I cannot think of a situation where I would lie to my children.

Even when they are carrying a vibrating dildo into a room full of your friends asking what it is?

 

[Storm]

your children to support what you have instilled in their heads?
This thread stems from the recent death of my father who lost his battle with lung cancer and my being ****** off at my brother for choosing to lie to his children in the name of his chosen belief at that time and ignoring an old mans dying request. We were never a religious family but it was never discouraged, my brother only chose his current belief system IMHO at the request of his wife whom I actually adore but disagree with on many points. The problem is that I feel that anyone should die as they choose if possible and my fathers two requests were to not become a vegetable and to die at home, he got both. The problem in my mind started when hospice workers asked if he wanted a priest to do this and that over my fathers body when the time came, since neither my mother or father were religious the random acts of a generic shaman were refused. My brother seemed to have a problem with this according to his new skin and even tried to pressure my mother at (in my mind) the worst time possible, she took a stand and said "no priests". In the end he died exactly as he chose, not as a vegetable and at home we administered him morphine, Atropine, and everything else under the sun every hour on the hour until we watched him take his last breath. My brother brought his children over afterwards and explained to them that grandpa went to heaven because jesus always gives second chances so he accepted jesus just before he died, I wanted to kick his *** at this point but I felt it wasn't the time or the place

So in the end how far will you go to justify your beliefs in your childrens heads?

First off, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. It was incredibly disrespectful of your brother. That said, at least he didn't tell the kids "Grandpa's in Hell now."

Anyway, to answer the question...

As a very devout believer, I've done my best to avoid indoctrinating my son in the first place. To the point that I'm starting to wonder if I went too far in the other direction.

Anyway, I agree with lunakilo that lying to your kids is a bad idea, if not downright immoral. However, I'm in a bad situation in that regard. Long story short, I lost custody and my visitation is on very shaky legal ground. The relevant part is that his legal guardians ask me to lie to him about certain things, and I don't dare go against their wishes. So, I do lie to him sometimes, but I resent and regret it.

However, God is not one of those things, so.....

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm sorry about to hear about your father, Nosphoros.

My brother brought his children over afterwards and explained to them that grandpa went to heaven because jesus always gives second chances so he accepted jesus just before he died, I wanted to kick his *** at this point but I felt it wasn't the time or the place

So in the end how far will you go to justify your beliefs in your childrens heads?

Personally, I wouldn't want to do anything like that. I admire your self-control - I'm not sure I'd be able to avoid getting violent if I was in that situation.

While I'd never make any sort of announcement like that, if I had a child come up to me and ask something like "Is grandpa in Heaven now?" I wouldn't just say "no, he's not. When people die, they just die and there's no Heaven or Hell." Instead, my approach would probably be to start with the question "what do you think?" Depending on the response (and the age of the child), this might lead to a larger discussion. I might tell them a bit about the range of beliefs people have about an afterlife, but I'd never simply hand the child one specific opinion as "the" answer.

Even when they are carrying a vibrating dildo into a room full of your friends asking what it is?

You can deflect a question without answering it directly. You could just say something like "that's for mommy and daddy and it's a private thing that we don't show to other people."

Depending on the situation, you could also simply flat-out refuse to give an answer. You don't have to lie to simply say "I'm not going to tell you" or "we'll have to wait until you're older to talk about it."

 

[Alex_G]

your children to support what you have instilled in their heads?
This thread stems from the recent death of my father who lost his battle with lung cancer and my being ****** off at my brother for choosing to lie to his children in the name of his chosen belief at that time and ignoring an old mans dying request. We were never a religious family but it was never discouraged, my brother only chose his current belief system IMHO at the request of his wife whom I actually adore but disagree with on many points. The problem is that I feel that anyone should die as they choose if possible and my fathers two requests were to not become a vegetable and to die at home, he got both. The problem in my mind started when hospice workers asked if he wanted a priest to do this and that over my fathers body when the time came, since neither my mother or father were religious the random acts of a generic shaman were refused. My brother seemed to have a problem with this according to his new skin and even tried to pressure my mother at (in my mind) the worst time possible, she took a stand and said "no priests". In the end he died exactly as he chose, not as a vegetable and at home we administered him morphine, Atropine, and everything else under the sun every hour on the hour until we watched him take his last breath. My brother brought his children over afterwards and explained to them that grandpa went to heaven because jesus always gives second chances so he accepted jesus just before he died, I wanted to kick his *** at this point but I felt it wasn't the time or the place

So in the end how far will you go to justify your beliefs in your childrens heads?

Its a fine line between being a responsible parent and not, just as its a fine line between being a genuinely good person and not. A fine line maybe, but often quite clear when you fall on one side or the other.

I believe teaching kids religious truths as fact is pretty intolerable and irresponsible. In your specific example, for which i am genuinely sorry for your loss and the pain endured, i can see 2 sides of a coin with respects to involving children in scenarios or events that are arguably too difficult for them. Of course i'm going to stick in a disclaimer here regarding age as a valid marker of intellectual and emotional maturity. I know 12 year olds who are far more competent and able at dealing with such hardships than some 25 year olds. Be that just natural, or due to a sad individual history is another matter.

I think that, as is the theme in much of William Blake’s poetry, there is the innocence and the experience in people, and both are required to live effectively and happily in the real world. Growing up and maturing is the process of developing some experience so that you can safeguard your innocence.

Responsible parenting would be for me, through communication and knowing your children as individuals, and taking up the mantle of true unconditional care, facilitating them through this process as best as you can, for their lifelong benefit, and not for your own self serving or self gratifying reasons.

It requires a tight rope walk between truthfulness and censorship that we wont always get right, but need to strive towards. Rather than using the word censorship with all of its connotations, i think it might be better to describe the parent's delivery of the information to the child as being like an interpreter or a translator, converting the language of the adult world, into a language that suits the individual child, so that they can best understand and be in touch with what is going on.

Alex

 

[sojourner]

Would You Lie To your children to support what you have instilled in their heads?

Absolutely not.

 

[linwood]

So in the end how far will you go to justify your beliefs in your childrens heads?

Your brother was not justifying his beliefs.
He was lying so he wouldn`t have to face justifying his gods cruelty to his children.

That`s even a bit more despicable if you think about it.

I will never find myself in the position to require justification of my beliefs with anyone, especially with my children.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Depends on the situation, the context, and the goal. Sometimes lies are more useful, and even more apprpriate, than the truth, and everybody tells lies and truth on a regular basis.

 

[lunakilo]

Even when they are carrying a vibrating dildo into a room full of your friends asking what it is?

No.

I would ask them where they got it though

 

[linwood]

Even when they are carrying a vibrating dildo into a room full of your friends asking what it is?

It`s a foot massager of course.

 

[Felidae]

I have no beliefs really.. atheist mainly. You have every right to be angry at your brother, but honestly there are many parents lying to their children, about these things and other. I don't necessarily see this as bad, the thing your brother did then to his kids. I am more appauled at him pressuring for a priest. I went through a lot of the same as you did, my dad dying of lungcancer after being ill for 10 months, him being totally not religious, thinking all that religious stuff nonsense. Luckily, our family all thinks that. My dad got to die at home too, the way he wanted, unfortunately we couldn't relieve him of all his pain despite loads of morphine. So yeah, very similar.

Did you talk to your brother about how you feel? Sorry, didn't read ALL posts, just the first few, usually the ones that matter. But all you can do is talk to him about that you feel it's immoral or sth to lie this way to his kids.. his life is what he makes of it. In my opinion, religion is always a way of lying to yourself and others, but that's maybe besides the point. Don't let yourself be bothered by this, there's more important things.

It's his choice to lie to his kids, let him deal with it. I had an aunt who went the other way. She took away from her son the belief in Santa Clause (we have Sinterklaas in early december, but it's similar) because she didn't want to lie to him. So she told him from the beginning it's a load of ****. That's extreme the other way.

 

[Rakhel]

It depends on the age and maturity of the child more than it does what the parent is tying to protect.