Would you please explain the Biblical basis for "rapture"?

[jeager106]

I don't understand the "rapture of the Chruch". I have been told the basis for such is in Thessalonians.
"1 Thessalonians 4:15-17New International Version (NIV)
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
Just a bit of what I found that is anti-rapture. From:
Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD
"Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith."
Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935."

I'd appreicate any information from you either is support of the rapture or debunking it.
I do a lot of reading on Christianity, have for years. I don't believe in a literal hell as depicted by
the images of Dante's Inferno. Many churches now teach a belief in that kind of hell is false doctrine and probably pagan in origin.
Your thoughts on rapture appreciated.

 

[Ingledsva]

I don't understand the "rapture of the Chruch". I have been told the basis for such is in Thessalonians.
"1 Thessalonians 4:15-17New International Version (NIV)
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
Just a bit of what I found that is anti-rapture. From:
Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD
"Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith."
Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935."

I'd appreicate any information from you either is support of the rapture or debunking it.
I do a lot of reading on Christianity, have for years. I don't believe in a literal hell as depicted by
the images of Dante's Inferno. Many churches now teach a belief in that kind of hell is false doctrine and probably pagan in origin.
Your thoughts on rapture appreciated.

There is actually no rapture. They misread/mistranslate the texts.

The Sheol idea is that ALL the dead wait there for the end - and Final Judgment.

So at the END - obviously the already dead would be first, and then those alive, - become dead, - and follow. No one survives the end of things. (in this story, of course.)

*

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't understand the "rapture of the Chruch". I have been told the basis for such is in Thessalonians.
"1 Thessalonians 4:15-17New International Version (NIV)
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
Just a bit of what I found that is anti-rapture. From:
Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD
"Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith."
Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935."

I'd appreicate any information from you either is support of the rapture or debunking it.
I do a lot of reading on Christianity, have for years. I don't believe in a literal hell as depicted by
the images of Dante's Inferno. Many churches now teach a belief in that kind of hell is false doctrine and probably pagan in origin.
Your thoughts on rapture appreciated.

You can have a 'hell' regardless of belief in rapture. The 'hell' feature in the case of being given new bodies would simply come after judgement.

 

[Ingledsva]

You can have a 'hell' regardless of belief in rapture. The 'hell' feature in the case of being given new bodies would simply come after judgement.

As you know, I don't believe there is any actual Hell idea in the Bible.

It says ALL go to Sheol to await Final Judgment. Then after Judgment, we have the evil and Sheol thrown in to the lake of fire, whose name comes from a refiner's fire. In other words - that which isn't pure, is totally destroyed.

*

 

[Desert Snake]

As you know, I don't believe there is any actual Hell idea in the Bible.

It says ALL go to Sheol to await Final Judgment. Then after Judgment, we have the evil and Sheol thrown in to the lake of fire, whose name comes from a refiner's fire. In other words - that which isn't pure, is totally destroyed.

*

Yep. We also have the repeated reference to 'Hades', an extremely innacurate term without the Xian idea of 'hell'. (we've argued this ad nauseum). And, also, the traditional belief in a 'hell', which, I take seriously when examining religious topics, within any religion.

 

[Ingledsva]

Yep. We also have the repeated reference to 'Hades', an extremely innacurate term without the Xian idea of 'hell'. (we've argued this ad nauseum). And, also, the traditional belief in a 'hell', which, I take seriously when examining religious topics, within any religion. To make a comparison, take 'Judaism', which, if you read the Tanakh without including interpretational belief, you don't end up with "Judaism" of the flavor you might find in the Judaism DIR. Or do you?
That is where we differ. I think that 'xianity' is the same as Judaism, you have to include traditional beliefs and interpretation to actually know what the religion teaches, as opposed to a 'straight text' interpretation. Btw the 'straight text' includes the father telling Jesus that Jesus is God, the creator, so forth. Take your pick, you can't really have both.

I think the Hell/pain/torture idea - is actually the anguish, horror, and actual pain one feels, - when finding themselves dead, - and in Sheol, - awaiting Final Judgment, - and possible total annihilation, - knowing full-well they placed themselves in that predicament, - and so far from God.


*

 

[jeager106]

I think the Hell/pain/torture idea - is actually the anguish, horror, and actual pain one feels, - when finding themselves dead, - and in Sheol, - awaiting Final Judgment, - and possible total annihilation, - knowing full-well they placed themselves in that predicament, - and so far from God.


*

What an aweful notion. That of being so far removed from God.
That is the state the ancient Hebrews believed was the worse thing that
could befall a Jew.
I have to agree with that.

 

[BummerBeavis]

I don't understand the "rapture of the Chruch". I have been told the basis for such is in Thessalonians.
"1 Thessalonians 4:15-17New International Version (NIV)
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
Just a bit of what I found that is anti-rapture. From:
Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD
"Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith."
Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935."

I'd appreicate any information from you either is support of the rapture or debunking it.
I do a lot of reading on Christianity, have for years. I don't believe in a literal hell as depicted by
the images of Dante's Inferno. Many churches now teach a belief in that kind of hell is false doctrine and probably pagan in origin.
Your thoughts on rapture appreciated.

it is a smokescreen argument. Basically it says that the VICARIOUS FILII DEI which means THE SUBSTITUTE FOR THE SON OF GOD, the legal title of the Pope, is not the antichrist. It is put out by satanist pretending to be christians so that they wont know who the biblical antichrist is and to make them enter hell. it came from the Jesuits and a witch named Margaret McDonald. Look up Ribera futurism. THIS IS NOT THE ONLY BIG LIE IN CHRISTIANITY.INC

 

[jeager106]

it is a smokescreen argument. Basically it says that the VICARIOUS FILII DEI which means THE SUBSTITUTE FOR THE SON OF GOD, the legal title of the Pope, is not the antichrist. It is put out by satanist pretending to be christians so that they wont know who the biblical antichrist is and to make them enter hell. it came from the Jesuits and a witch named Margaret McDonald. Look up Ribera futurism. THIS IS NOT THE ONLY BIG LIE IN CHRISTIANITY.INC

I think you are saying the rapture is false doctrine?
I agree. I did quite a bit of reading on other sites and did some add'l research.
It's crap.

 

[BummerBeavis]

I think you are saying the rapture is false doctrine?
I agree. I did quite a bit of reading on other sites and did some add'l research.
It's crap.

if you want some really good info start at the beginning Babylon. This will teach you all about that religion and will open your eyes to all spiritual fraud.

 

[jeager106]

it is a smokescreen argument. Basically it says that the VICARIOUS FILII DEI which means THE SUBSTITUTE FOR THE SON OF GOD, the legal title of the Pope, is not the antichrist. It is put out by satanist pretending to be christians so that they wont know who the biblical antichrist is and to make them enter hell. it came from the Jesuits and a witch named Margaret McDonald. Look up Ribera futurism. THIS IS NOT THE ONLY BIG LIE IN CHRISTIANITY.INC

Where can I get a copy of that presentation. It has the ring of truth.
There hasn't been a doubt in my mind from many years of searching that Babylon the great and the Holy Roman Church are one in the same.
The rapture, trinity, x-mass, easter, hellfire, damnation, eternal torment, are just some of the more obvious great lies.
However I didn't know about the symbolism that has infiltrated our bibles and chruches. Most enlightening. Satan is clever, very clever & has been deceiving mankind since creation.
The best way to serve a lie is between two truths. Add pomp and ceremony to appeal to the emotion and there is a recipe for being lead astray.
Why is it on your avatar space where it states religion: you wrote notsure?
Explain please as I'm notsure also. I'm still searching but think, perhaps, there might be one unspoiled organized religion. I would have hoped there would be more.
Thank you for the enlightening video.

 

[BummerBeavis]

Where can I get a copy of that presentation. It has the ring of truth.
No doubt, hasn't been a doubt in my mind that Babylon the great and the Holy Roman Church are one in the same.
The rapture, trinity, x-mass, easter, hellfire, damnation, eternal torment, are just some of the more obvious great lies.
However I didn't know about the symbolism that has infiltrated our bibles and chruches. Most enlightening.
Why is it on your avatar space where it states religion: you wrote notsure?
Explain please as I'm notsure also. I'm still searching but think, perhaps, there might be one unspoiled organized religion. I would have hoped there would be more.
Thank you for the enlightening video.

this will explain everything the gods of babylon - YouTube

 

[jeager106]

this will explain everything the gods of babylon - YouTube

O.K. I see you are way ahead of many in what you have learned as I know what you have learned is the truth. That Truth will inflame many. It's supposed to.
I watched the video, I'd like a copy. Wonder? Could I make one from the U-Tube
presentation?

 

[BummerBeavis]

O.K. I see you are way ahead of many in what you have learned as I know what you have learned is the truth. That Truth will inflame many. It's supposed to.
I watched the video, I'd like a copy. Wonder? Could I make one from the U-Tube
presentation?

its on you tube. i don't know how to copy. but now wake others up

 

[jeager106]

its on you tube. i don't know how to copy. but now wake others up

Indeed I will.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Your thoughts on rapture appreciated.

"And you get in your car and you drive real far
And you drive all night and then you see a light
And it comes right down and lands on the ground
And out comes a man from Mars
And you try to run but he's got a gun
And he shoots you dead and he eats your head" ~ "Rapture" by Blondie

Granted, they're not my thoughts.

 

[jeager106]

"And you get in your car and you drive real far
And you drive all night and then you see a light
And it comes right down and lands on the ground
And out comes a man from Mars
And you try to run but he's got a gun
And he shoots you dead and he eats your head" ~ "Rapture" by Blondie

Granted, they're not my thoughts.

Yeah but I have a gun also and would shoot that Maritian right in his arse.
Nice example of a rapture I can understand.

 

[InChrist]

it is a smokescreen argument. Basically it says that the VICARIOUS FILII DEI which means THE SUBSTITUTE FOR THE SON OF GOD, the legal title of the Pope, is not the antichrist. It is put out by satanist pretending to be christians so that they wont know who the biblical antichrist is and to make them enter hell. it came from the Jesuits and a witch named Margaret McDonald. Look up Ribera futurism. THIS IS NOT THE ONLY BIG LIE IN CHRISTIANITY.INC

Not true, from my perspective. The Blessed Hope of the church was taught and believed well before the existence of the Jesuits or Margaret McDonald..
.Margaret MacDonald Who?

 

[InChrist]

The biblical reason for the rapture or removal of the church is that Jesus loves His bride the church. There is no reason for believers who are a part of the church and who have been forgiven and cleansed by Christ to be here on the earth when Jesus returns in judgment as seen in the book of Revelation. Noah was removed before the flood, Lot was removed before Sodom was destroyed and the church will be removed before God pours out His wrath on the wicked of the earth.

 

[Muffled]

I think you are saying the rapture is false doctrine?
I agree. I did quite a bit of reading on other sites and did some add'l research.
It's crap.

I believe saying there is no rapture is just as much false doctrine as saying the Pope is the antichrist or that there is no hell or that the Pope is infallible.

I believe this hardly serves as a tenable argument.