Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
Haha I know right?
*about to jump out the window* "H-hey God, I can stop now right? I proved my faith right? Riiiight?"
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Would you sacrifice yourself if your deity asked you to?
- Thread starter Mindmaster
- Start date
*about to jump out the window* "H-hey God, I can stop now right? I proved my faith right? Riiiight?"
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
Ah....
A Spiritual Monist is a more specific term if I am correct.
I am a Material Monist, I think everything is composed of energy.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
I thought it would be funny if in that story god stops Abraham and tells him "You don't murder your kid just cause I told you idiot!"
Hence two types of pantheism (if you even use the term yourself).
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
I do not, as I do not worship nature.
An interesting way to frame it, though not a palatable framing for modern sentiments. Such things are quite taboo now.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
Very true, there is a stark contrast between Neo-pagans and Classical Pagans.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
No, but a command to harm yourself or somebody else is something that would definitely cause a doctor some concern.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
Yeah...but a voice in your head telling you anything would cause a doctor some concern.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Depends on the doctor and where you are in the world. As a rule, Western psychology appears to be moving away from a "cure it at all costs" attitude and more towards a "fix what can't be lived with" attitude. In another five years, that may change again though.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
Yeah...but that kind of thing usually means you have type 1 schizophrenia which can get very nasty very quickly.
If I may, before I vote, I'd like to get some clarification based on what Woden would mean by this.
When Woden was seeking ultimate knowledge, He came to the World Tree. He speared himself to the Tree and hung there, for nine days and nights. It was a sacrifice, Woden offered to Woden, Himself unto Himself. When it was over, Runes appeared below Him in the Well of Wyrd (Wyrdwell?
), and Ge fell. He mastered them all, and gained the most Supreme Wisdom available.
In other words, this was a sacrificial ritual in which He survived. (And remember, the Northern Gods can die.)
Now, if Woden asked me to sacrifice myself, that's likely the sort of thing He'd be talking about: a ritual in which I survive (unless I was being asked to sacrifice myself specifically to Him, in which case I'd definitely die, and so I'd absolutely refuse). A sacrifice of myself unto myself.
How would that fit in to the poll?
When Woden was seeking ultimate knowledge, He came to the World Tree. He speared himself to the Tree and hung there, for nine days and nights. It was a sacrifice, Woden offered to Woden, Himself unto Himself. When it was over, Runes appeared below Him in the Well of Wyrd (Wyrdwell?
), and Ge fell. He mastered them all, and gained the most Supreme Wisdom available.In other words, this was a sacrificial ritual in which He survived. (And remember, the Northern Gods can die.)
Now, if Woden asked me to sacrifice myself, that's likely the sort of thing He'd be talking about: a ritual in which I survive (unless I was being asked to sacrifice myself specifically to Him, in which case I'd definitely die, and so I'd absolutely refuse). A sacrifice of myself unto myself.
How would that fit in to the poll?
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
If I may, before I vote, I'd like to get some clarification based on what Woden would mean by this.
When Woden was seeking ultimate knowledge, He came to the World Tree. He speared himself to the Tree and hung there, for nine days and nights. It was a sacrifice, Woden offered to Woden, Himself unto Himself. When it was over, Runes appeared below Him in the Well of Wyrd (Wyrdwell?
In other words, this was a sacrificial ritual in which He survived. (And remember, the Northern Gods can die.)
Now, if Woden asked me to sacrifice myself, that's likely the sort of thing He'd be talking about: a ritual in which I survive (unless I was being asked to sacrifice myself specifically to Him, in which case I'd definitely die, and so I'd absolutely refuse). A sacrifice of myself unto myself.
How would that fit in to the poll?
Sacrifice: an act of slaughtering an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to God or to a divine or supernatural figure.
If I may, before I vote, I'd like to get some clarification based on what Woden would mean by this.
When Woden was seeking ultimate knowledge, He came to the World Tree. He speared himself to the Tree and hung there, for nine days and nights. It was a sacrifice, Woden offered to Woden, Himself unto Himself. When it was over, Runes appeared below Him in the Well of Wyrd (Wyrdwell?
In other words, this was a sacrificial ritual in which He survived. (And remember, the Northern Gods can die.)
Now, if Woden asked me to sacrifice myself, that's likely the sort of thing He'd be talking about: a ritual in which I survive (unless I was being asked to sacrifice myself specifically to Him, in which case I'd definitely die, and so I'd absolutely refuse). A sacrifice of myself unto myself.
How would that fit in to the poll?
There is a symbolic death in many religions. Normally, an initiation into an esoteric tradition is framed by a mundane death concept. Your previous self must die to be exposed to these new mysteries, etc... I think it counts at least in a ritual sense since the probationer is literally killing their old life to become an initiate. It is not always a physical death in the strict sense of the word...
I just wanted to contrast here how the ancient concept of death worked. If you were ever considered dead in ancient times (aka lost at sea, missing then found, etc...) and death rites had been performed for you then you would have to go through an entire process to be considered living again. You could not live with your spouse or kids while considered dead, and you have to go through with a final right where you were literally passed through a woman's legs to be considered to be reborn again. The process differed culture to culture, but they believed that symbolic death = real death and by extension you must be symbolically reborn or those around you would face ill omen. Sympathetic magic on steroids, eh?
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
There are a whole two people I would die for, deities aren't worth the effort.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
I just wanted to contrast here how the ancient concept of death worked. If you were ever considered dead in ancient times (aka lost at sea, missing then found, etc...) and death rites had been performed for you then you would have to go through an entire process to be considered living again. You could not live with your spouse or kids while considered dead, and you have to go through with a final right where you were literally passed through a woman's legs to be considered to be reborn again. The process differed culture to culture, but they believed that symbolic death = real death and by extension you must be symbolically reborn or those around you would face ill omen. Sympathetic magic on steroids, eh?
I understand, but you where asking if they would sacrifice themselves not symbolically sacrifice themselves.
Sacrifice: "the surrender or destruction of something prized or desirable for the sake of something considered as having a higher or more pressing claim." (3rd definition from dictionary.com).
"She sacrificed a coin to win overall." (ProJared in Mario Party 2 After Dark)
It's thought that this story might be a reference to just such a ritual that's now forgotten.
...hm... I think my answer will have to be withheld at this point. Woden could very well ask me to go through that original ritual, and even if there were an intention and likelihood of survival, I'm NOT spearing myself to a tree! At the same time, He doesn't seem as demanding as He was back then...
I dunno. I don't work with Woden very often.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
Thanks for giving us the Wodown on that.
The original question still stands... I was just providing information being discussed here in the thread regardless of the vote and other options and connotations of the concept.