Would your beliefs be affected if...

[dyanaprajna2011]

Ok, fine, but I think we are at an impasse then.

This does seem to be the case.

I would be repeating myself that your explanation under #1. is a cop out position.

I disagree, but we all view things differently.

Wooden statues of the Virgin Mary just do not weep tears of blood in front of countless eye witnesses and cameras ---- where the scientist present can say “this is a natural event, we just cannot explain it yet.”

And people would say the same thing about people being healed of diseases, mass angel sightings, fulfilled prophecies, demonic encounters, etc (all things I experienced as a Christian). And yet, here I am, not denying the experiences, but denying their interpretation as supernatural events, or misinterpretation of natural events as something supernatural.

No, God is speaking plainly in Mary’s tears. And when you start to add up all of the “miracles” over the centuries, it looks quite desperate when science keeps saying “coincidence, hallucinations, or not yet explained.”

If god exists and wants me to believe, I need something more conclusive than Mary appearing in a bagel or Allah's name in Arabic appearing on a fish. And I have yet to see a so-called miracle, like statues crying tears or blood, that hasn't been explained by scientists. I have yet to see one of these supposed miracles where a bunch of scientists are just standing around scratching their heads. But that's exactly what they did when, one day, a bunch of Hindu statues of their gods began drinking milk, out of the blue, with no apparent explanation. Being a Buddhist myself, you'd think that that would be enough for me to turn to Shiva or Vishnu. But no, it's not. And, even if we were to say that what's being reported as miracles is not only clearly supernatural, but has to be the work of the divine, then that raises a whole new set of questions. Since it's going on in most religions, which one is right? That's why, even if supernatural events are going on, I don't place much stock in them, because they happen to people of all religions. To accept the claims of the miraculous as proof of the validity of one religion over another is, at the least, dishonest.

Science makes many conclusive arguments based on probabilities alone, not absolute fact

And that's one of the reasons why I have a hard time accepting the claims of most religions. They either don't know and refuse to learn, or outright misrepresent, what science actually is and does.

But when it comes to supernatural manifestations, now the probabilities --- of this being a fake or having a natural explanation that cannot be ascertained in the least for the present --- no longer matter.

They don't matter only to the ones who want to believe. Me, I see no problem with wanting absolute conclusive proof. But my views on miracles still stand, at least for me. Most can be explained easily, those that can't, doesn't mean they're not natural, and even if there's proof of the supernatural, it doesn't validate one religion over the other.

Just as the probability of a godless, mindless molecules creating a human cell with one thousand machines in it all working harmony --- all done by pure chance --- borders on the infinite.

Again, religion misrepresenting science. That's one reason why I left Christianity, and converted to Buddhism, because at least Buddhism is honest enough to realize that science has it's place, and that claims of supernatural phenomenon are not meant as a qualifying factor on the validity of a particular religions claims. There's no misrepresentations. Faith takes a backseat to reason in Buddhism. Buddhism posits no creator god, the supernatural, if it even exists, is rare, and not proof of anything other than the supernatural in and of itself.

You have your beliefs, I have mine. I've put alot of time and effort into what I believe. I'm sure you believe the same about yourself. And that's fine. I'm not here to get you to try to abandon your beliefs. My goal is twofold: 1. to help you understand my beliefs, and 2. to get you to think about what you believe. I have no desire at all for people to abandon their beliefs, whatever they may be. But I do take issue with the facts being misrepresented by blind faith. If you believe that statues of Mary crying tears and the Shroud of Turin are supernatural in origin and proof of your religion, that's fine. But don't misrepresent what science is or does just because you may not like it, or because it might go against something you believe. At least be honest, knowing that what you believe is taken on faith, and that many, if not all things taken on faith generally have no basis in reason. This doesn't make them automatically irrational, but blind faith does no one any good. Science is science, and religion is religion. Two different spheres, which have very little in common, and rarely, if ever, have any overlap.

 

[tree]

Question: why would one presuppose that it would have an effect on religious beliefs?

I'm not assuming that anyone's beliefs would be changed, but I just noticed that it was a major theme that religious beliefs of some characters were affected in books and movies when aliens showed up.

My personal beliefs would not be changed either, I'm glad that others feel the same way.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Well, kinda because the fact they're driving a ship makes them a bit anthropomorphic. If there are anthropomorphic aliens, I'd have to believe in God.

 

[nekoboy]

It wouldn't. The LDS faith is quite open to the existence of extraterrestrials, and they are likely spiritual sons and daughters of God, like ourselves.

 

[thau]

I do not doubt your intelligence or sincerity (which I appreciate), and yet, in my assertations, there are so many misunderstandings in your assumptions or claims I would not have the time to respond properly.

I suppose it is for every person who has heard the gospel preached to answer for themselves the question "Who do you say Jesus Christ is?" Nothing in earth's history rivals the name of Jesus. Think He would have changed those around Him, and ultimately the world, without real miracles? Jesus said to those in His presence: “If you will not put faith in my words, then put faith in the works that I do.”

 

[Thief]

It wouldn't. The LDS faith is quite open to the existence of extraterrestrials, and they are likely spiritual sons and daughters of God, like ourselves.

Have you seen "War of the Worlds"?
Gene Barry in the lead role.