Wouldn't it be unfair of God?

[Trailblazer]

Another false idea(IMO) is that the immortal soul ("the real man himself") will be reunited with a body when the body is raised from the dead.

Where does the Bible say anything like that?

I consider that to be a false belief and I don't know where it came from...

The physical body once dead remains dead and the soul leaves the body and passes from this world to the spiritual world. Once in the spiritual world the soul takes on another form, a spiritual body comprised of spiritual elements that exist in that world.

 

[LightofTruth]

Ezekiel 37:6-10 ?

That is a parable which speaks of the Jews after they had been driven out of their own land. They are viewed as being amongst the dead when they are not in their own land. And when they are brought back they are said to be given life again.

 

[LightofTruth]

I consider that to be a false belief and I don't know where it came from...

The physical body once dead remains dead and the soul leaves the body and passes from this world to the spiritual world. Once in the spiritual world the soul takes on another form, a spiritual body comprised of spiritual elements that exist in that world.

But where does the Bible speak of the soul leaving the body. The usual answer is the passage where Paul says "absent from the body...and present with the Lord".

On the other hand, he says that unless the dead are raised the Christian has no hope and his faith is worthless.

There seems to be a contradiction there. If the soul is the real person and the soul leaves the body to be with the Lord, then how could no resurrection from the dead mean faith is worthless?

We can eliminate the contradiction by saying that the body Paul desired to be absent from was "the body of death", as he calls it. In other words, Paul desired to be clothed with the body he will receive (spiritual body) at the resurrection of the dead and therefore be absent from the natural body of death. Paul understood that when he died he would have a new body when raised from the dead.

 

[LightofTruth]

https://www.religiousforums.com/bible/john/11:25-26/

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Look at the Greek of John 11:26.

Joh 11:26 AndG2532 every one G3956 G3588 livingG2198 andG2532 believingG4100 inG1519 me,G1473 in no wayG3766.2 should dieG599 intoG1519 theG3588 eon.G165 Do you believeG4100 this?G3778

Robertson says "in no way should die into the eon" means "shall not die forever".

A. Clarke says this: "Shall never die - Or, Shall not die for ever. Though he die a temporal death. he shall not continue under its power for ever; but shall have a resurrection to life eternal."

John 5:24 simply claims that the believer is in possession of the eternal life promised by resurrection from the dead. That doesn't mean he can turn away back to the ways of the world and not lose the salvation which comes by faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

But where does the Bible speak of the soul leaving the body. The usual answer is the passage where Paul says "absent from the body...and present with the Lord".

I don't know where it might say that because I am not that familiar with the Bible, but obviously the soul has to leave the body once the body is dead, because there would be no reason for the soul to remain with a dead body

1 Corinthians 15:44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

Paul says they are raised as spiritual bodies so that indicates that the soul (which is the person who is raised) will be raised as a spiritual body. Then it has to go somewhere and I believe the soul (the person) goes to the spiritual world (in the heavens), based upon the following verse:

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

On the other hand, he says that unless the dead are raised the Christian has no hope and his faith is worthless.

There seems to be a contradiction there. If the soul is the real person and the soul leaves the body to be with the Lord, then how could no resurrection from the dead mean faith is worthless?

I think I know the verse you are talking about where Paul says says that unless the dead are raised the Christian has no hope and his faith is worthless and I think Paul is referring to the spiritually dead being raised to spiritual life (eternal life). I just remembered that I explained this to a Christian on another forum some time ago, and I saved it as I saved all my longer posts, in a Word document, so here it is below. Sorry it is kind of long:

In 1 Corinthians 15:12-22, Paul was referring to a spiritual resurrection. That Jesus was raised up means His spirit was resurrected; brought back to life. If Christ’s spirit was not brought back to life, then your faith would be in vain and you would still be in your sins. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive means that all shall be made spiritually alive, not physically rise and be alive in bodies. That does not mean Jesus’ soul (spirit) was brought back to life (because the soul cannot die, so it does not need to be brought back to life); it means that the Cause of Christ (what He taught and represented) were brought back to life after three days... Had it NOT been brought back to life you would still be in your sins because it was the Cause of Christ that needed to be brought back to life in order to save people from their sins. People needed to get the Gospel message that Jesus taught and the disciples needed to carry that far and wide. Their faith in Jesus needed to be renewed (resurrected) after Jesus had died and the disciples lost all hope.

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: and 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: refers to rising from spiritual death, rising from the graves of ignorance of Christ, not to anyone rising from physical graves. Had the Cause of Christ not been brought back to life after three days, everyone would have remained in their sins and in spiritual death.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death refers to spiritual death, not physical death. The physical body was never designed to live forever, but the soul is immortal so it can never die. Those souls who believe in Jesus will have eternal life (everlasting life) because they are near to God; other souls who are veiled from God continue to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies, but they will not have eternal life because in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, they are nonexistent because they are separated from God.

Eternal life refers to a quality of life, gaining the rewards of the heaven, which are peace, the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God. Eternal life does not refer to continuance or duration of physical life, since the physical body cannot live forever. Eternal life refers to continuance or duration of the life of the soul, since souls live forever.

Thus all the following Bible verses refer to the eternal life if the soul, not the eternal life of the physical body.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 4:13-14 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

We can eliminate the contradiction by saying that the body Paul desired to be absent from was "the body of death", as he calls it. In other words, Paul desired to be clothed with the body he will receive (spiritual body) at the resurrection of the dead and therefore be absent from the natural body of death. Paul understood that when he died he would have a new body when raised from the dead.

Yes, that is according to my understanding and one way to explain it. There are many ways of explaining the same process that will take place.

 

[Trailblazer]

Look at the Greek of John 11:26.

Joh 11:26 AndG2532 every one G3956 G3588 livingG2198 andG2532 believingG4100 inG1519 me,G1473 in no wayG3766.2 should dieG599 intoG1519 theG3588 eon.G165 Do you believeG4100 this?G3778

Robertson says "in no way should die into the eon" means "shall not die forever".

A. Clarke says this: "Shall never die - Or, Shall not die for ever. Though he die a temporal death. he shall not continue under its power for ever; but shall have a resurrection to life eternal."

The way I interpret that is that the body will undergo a temporal death, so the death is only related to this world, until the resurrection to the spiritual world (heaven) and life eternal.

John 5:24 simply claims that the believer is in possession of the eternal life promised by resurrection from the dead. That doesn't mean he can turn away back to the ways of the world and not lose the salvation which comes by faith.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I agree, a believer can lose salvation if he turns back to the ways of the world, and that is why Jesus said:

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Jesus was saying to deny our selfish desires, things we want that are not of God, and to follow in His Way. For whoever will live for self shall lose his eternal life, but whoever will sacrifice his life for the sake of Jesus and God shall gain eternal life. It is the soul that gains eternal life, not the body.

So if we live for self and the worldly things we gain the whole world but we lose our soul because our soul will not gain eternal life, it will lose eternal life.

Those verses go along with these verses, as Jesus is saying basically the same thing:

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

 

[alypius]

Instead He told Adam that he would surely die and return to the dust he was made from.

Which is exactly what happened.

If God told Adam that 'on the day you eat of it you will die' and God is not capable of deceit, then does the fact that Adam did not die on the very day he ate of the fruit not suggest that 'you will die' refers to a spiritual death of the immortal soul?

 

[LightofTruth]

If God told Adam that 'on the day you eat of it you will die' and God is not capable of deceit, then does the fact that Adam did not die on the very day he ate of the fruit not suggest that 'you will die' refers to a spiritual death of the immortal soul?

Some seem to think it refers to "spiritual death" even though the Bible never talks about such a thing. Nor does it ever mention an "immoral soul".

Adam came under the death sentence on the very day he ate the fruit. He was a condemned man from that point forward. Like I said, even today we speak of condemned men as being "dead man walking". Adam was a dead man.

Anyone without Christ is a dead man even though he yet lives. He is dead in trespasses and sin.

 

[night912]

Exactly! That's the entire point.

And Jehovah God doesn't assume, He knows what we are aware of.
IOW, A&E knew what death was, from observing the animals. When they died, there was no more activity; they simply began to decompose.

Same w/ us. Ecclesiastes 9:5, and Ecclesiastes 3:19-20, reveal that.

Psalm 115:17 It is not the dead who praise the LORD, nor any who descend into silence.

But most people aren't taught that: they are told "when a person dies, they go on living 'in another realm.' "

But @ John 5:28-29, what did Jesus say? He spoke of a future(John 6:44) Resurrection for "both the righteous and the unrighteous." And from where do the dead come? From 'another realm'? No...'from their Memorial Tombs'!

I hope you have a good day, my cousin.

How about you try addressing my point instead of ignoring it and declaring victory. Saying that "God assumed," is also speculation.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

How about you try addressing my point instead of ignoring it and declaring victory. Saying that "God assumed," is also speculation.

Just what am I ignoring, in your understanding? I tried to answer you.

I’m not ‘declaring victory’ over anything. There isn’t a contest here.

I didn’t say ‘God assumed.’ I said “Jehovah God....knows what we are aware of.”

Take care & be safe.

 

[night912]

Just what am I ignoring, in your understanding? I tried to answer you.

I’m not ‘declaring victory’ over anything. There isn’t a contest here.

I didn’t say ‘God assumed.’ I said “Jehovah God....knows what we are aware of.”

Take care & be safe.

And that's was my point. I'm not saying that "God assumed," I'm saying that YOU assumed that it happened the way you said it did, eventhough it wasn't written anywhere.