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Wow!

Leonardo

Active Member
I can't believe it! My fear of Islam as a repressive religion that would stamp out science because it would conflict with Mohammad's preachings is proving wrong. The Islamic reactions on news sites are actually calling the Higs particle a revelation from god! Believe it or not the Christians are the ones calling the discovery "Man's arrogance", "Denial of god", etc...

Who would of thunk it? Islam? But how does Islam deal with evolution?..:shrug:
 

mycorrhiza

Well-Known Member
I can't believe it! My fear of Islam as a repressive religion that would stamp out science because it would conflict with Mohammad's preachings is proving wrong. The Islamic reactions on news sites are actually calling the Higs particle a revelation from god! Believe it or not the Christians are the ones calling the discovery "Man's arrogance", "Denial of god", etc...

Who would of thunk it? Islam? But how does Islam deal with evolution?..:shrug:

Many Muslims believe in evolution, and if I recall correctly the idea of it has been around in the Islamic world for over a thousand years (although, the mechanisms and details a thousand years ago weren't exactly accurate). Of course, there's also many creationist Muslims.

Islam has a history of being quite pro-science and it still is in many places. There are groups, however, that completely reject evolution and think that science has no place in society. Just like the Young Earth Christians.
 

mohammad_rayhan

Was Atheist, Now a Muslim
Islam and science goes along together for us, Muslims. In fact God commands us to seek knowledge according to Islam.

Islam tells us to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave. In Islam no one should belittles the learning process, ongoing discussions about any ideologies and so on... We know that the first declaration unto Muhammad from God was: Read! (Surah Alaq verse 1)

We support the Big Bang theory and a lot of scientific discoveries. And each discoveries the scientists make, it just increases our faith. We all believe in Creationism, well at least, most of us do, because there are lots of errors and flaws in the theory of evolution. For example, from the diagram of evolution, we see that, only the monkey and the human survived, with in the time frame of human evolution. This shows that human survived, which is the cleverest one, and the monkey survived, who is the dumbest one, compared to all the cousins in the evolution theory. After this - a simple question arises "How did the dumbest cousin survive only, along with humans?" or "Where did the other cousins from the Evolution Theory GO?". So there are some errors and flaws with in the evolution theory, that's why most of us Muslims reject it.

The Quran instructs Muslims to "contemplate the wonders of creation" (Quran 3:191). The entire universe, which was created by God, follows and obeys His laws. Muslims are encouraged to seek knowledge, explore the universe, and find the "Signs of Allah or God" in His creation.

In Islam, there is no conflict between faith in God and modern scientific knowledge. Indeed, for many centuries during the Middle Ages, Muslims led the world in scientific inquiry and exploration. The Quran itself, revealed 14 centuries ago, contains many scientific facts and imagery that are supported by modern findings.

And may God guide us to the right path. And "The One God" has the best knowledge about every thing.
 
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Bob Dixon

>implying
Islam and science goes along together for us, Muslims. In fact God commands us to seek knowledge according to Islam.

Islam tells us to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave. In Islam no one should belittles the learning process, ongoing discussions about any ideologies and so on... We know that the first declaration unto Muhammad from God was: Read! (Surah Alaq verse 1)

We support the Big Bang theory and a lot of scientific discoveries. And each discoveries the scientists make, it just increases our faith. We all believe in Creationism, well at least, most of us do, because there are lots of errors and flaws in the theory of evolution. For example, from the diagram of evolution, we see that, only the monkey and the human survived, with in the time frame of human evolution. This shows that human survived, which is the cleverest one, and the monkey survived, who is the dumbest one, compared to all the cousins in the evolution theory. After this - a simple question arises "How did the dumbest cousin survive only, along with humans?" or "Where did the other cousins from the Evolution Theory GO?". So there are some errors and flaws with in the evolution theory, that's why most of us Muslims reject it.

I'm not quite sure you understand how evolutionary theory works.
Monkeys are not the "dumbest", and it's not really about being clever. Bacteria, for instance, possess no intelligence at all, yet they're fit and they live, and the've been surviving for hundreds of millions of years.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
We support the Big Bang theory and a lot of scientific discoveries. [...] We all believe in Creationism...
You don't get to keep any sort of credibility when you believe reality when it agrees with you and ignore it when it doesn't.

The Big Bang theory and evolution are based on the same physics. It is literally impossible for both creationism and the Big Bang theory to be true, given the evidence available.
 

mohammad_rayhan

Was Atheist, Now a Muslim
You don't get to keep any sort of credibility when you believe reality when it agrees with you and ignore it when it doesn't.

The Big Bang theory and evolution are based on the same physics. It is literally impossible for both creationism and the Big Bang theory to be true, given the evidence available.

According to Islam we believe that the creation of the universe was by the Big Bang and it is supported by our Holy Scripture.

Sahih International Translation [21-31]
"Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"

It is significant that this verse is specifically addressed to non-believers, implying perhaps, that the unveiling of the secret mentioned in this verse would be made by the non-believers, a sign for them of the truth of the Quran.

Sahih International Translation [51:47]
"And the heaven(every thing visible in the sky and space) We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander."

It should be remembered that the concept of the continuous expansion of the universe is exclusive to the Quran. No other Divine scriptures even remotely hint at it. The discovery that the universe is constantly expanding is of prime significance to scientists, because it helps create a better understanding of how the universe was initially created. It clearly explains the stage by stage process of creation, in a manner which perfectly falls into step with the theory of the Big Bang. The Quran goes further and describes the entire cycle of the beginning, the end and the return again to a similar beginning.

Quranic concept of Creationism is more detailed and a little different than the Old and New Testament. So lets not collide in to confusion. Peace Bro!
 
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mohammad_rayhan

Was Atheist, Now a Muslim
I'm not quite sure you understand how evolutionary theory works.
Monkeys are not the "dumbest", and it's not really about being clever. Bacteria, for instance, possess no intelligence at all, yet they're fit and they live, and the've been surviving for hundreds of millions of years.

Hello Bro. Peace!!! Thank you for your concern. I have read about the Evolution Theory and continue to read about it from different sources. I have also read different books about the Evidences of a common descent and so on.

There is no DNA research pointing to a connection between apes and humans as was supposed by the scientists and those who had financed them over the years. In fact, the barnyard pig is closer to humans in many aspects, than a monkey or a gorilla. Consider the fact, doctors use the skin from pigs to replace needed tissue on burn victims and the famous movie actor, John Wayne had a pig's heart valve installed in his own heart in a 1977 operation to save his life. It worked, too - until his smoking caused him to die of cancer.

The theory fits very well with all the species on earth except for humans. There is a huge gap between the apes and the humans. And traditional evolution theory cannot explain the intellectual jump of humans from other species and why is it, that the homo-sapiens are the only species with a higher intellectual capability. If scientist in the future will be able to prove it with all the genetic connections and the process of evolution without any conspiracy theories, we wont hesitate to accept it. =) God willing. For now, The Evolution theory concerning humans is merely a theory and we keep it that way =)

The Qur'an does not contain a complete chronology of creation. Quran gives hints of both, the creation and process of evolution.

Quran Says:
"Allah(meaning The God) is - Al Khaliq" (The Creator)
"Allah is - Al Bari" (The Shaper, Evolver, Designer)

"And Allah has Created every animal from water; of them are some creeping on their bellies; some walk on two legs; and some on four. Allah Creates what He wills: for sure Allah has Power over all things."
[Noble Quran 24:45]

The Quran has set a precedent 14 centuries before modern science, explaining in simple and direct terms about his "creation" of animals and their various functions and then assures us it is He who has the Power over everything. This statement includes the fact Allah can if He Wills, reshape and alter his creation as He Chooses. There is clear evidence within many species of alteration and changes within the species. However, there is no concrete evidence to support a cross over in development from one type to another, such as reptiles turning into birds or alligators turning into cows. The statements made in Quran are quite clear when Allah tells us of having brought forth other life forms and then destroying or replacing them with others. This again, does not imply evolution in the sense of one type becoming or changing into another.

Allah tells us He is Al-Bari, (The Shaper or Evolver) but once again, this does not mean He has a need to bring about each individual life form all from one kind. Actually, while reading the Quran you learn He has brought many types and shapes and sizes as He Wills. Changes within species occur even as quickly as one or two seasons, not even taking a whole year, much less millions as was supposed by Darwin.
 

mohammad_rayhan

Was Atheist, Now a Muslim
Exactly who are the "We", I thought Allah is a single being in Islam?

This is a good question and one that Bible readers have also asked about. The term "We" in the Bible and in the Quran is the royal "We" - as an example when the king says, "We decree the following declaration, etc." or, "We are not amused." It does not indicate plural; rather it displays the highest position in the language. English, Persian, Hebrew, Arabic and many languages provide for the usage of "We" for the royal figure. It is helpful to note the same dignity is given to the person being spoken to in English. We say to someone, "You ARE my friend." Yet the person is only one person standing there. Why did we say "ARE" instead of "IS"? The noun "you" is singular and should therefore be associated with a singular verb for the state of being, yet we say, "are." The same is true for the speaker when referring to himself or herself. We say, "I am" and this is also in the royal plural, instead of saying, "I is."

Peace!!! and keep on researching =)
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Hello Bro. Peace!!! Thank you for your concern. I have read about the Evolution Theory and continue to read about it from different sources. I have also read different books about the Evidences of a common descent and so on.

There is no DNA research pointing to a connection between apes and humans as was supposed by the scientists and those who had financed them over the years.

Yes, there is.

In fact, the barnyard pig is closer to humans in many aspects, than a monkey or a gorilla. Consider the fact, doctors use the skin from pigs to replace needed tissue on burn victims and the famous movie actor, John Wayne had a pig's heart valve installed in his own heart in a 1977 operation to save his life. It worked, too - until his smoking caused him to die of cancer.

Evolutionary coincidence.

The theory fits very well with all the species on earth except for humans. There is a huge gap between the apes and the humans.

No, there isn't.

And traditional evolution theory cannot explain the intellectual jump of humans from other species and why is it, that the homo-sapiens are the only species with a higher intellectual capability.

Yes, it does. We gradually obtained it. Heck, ever since our species has appeared about 40,000 years ago, our brains have gotten a bit smaller.

If scientist in the future will be able to prove it with all the genetic connections and the process of evolution without any conspiracy theories, we wont hesitate to accept it. =) God willing. For now, The Evolution theory concerning humans is merely a theory and we keep it that way =)

"Merely a theory" is actually misleading, because that's the highest point a scientific concept can reach. It's like saying that gravity is "only a theory."

The word "theory", believe it or not, comes from a root that essentially means "that which is seen." (And, incidentally, is the same root that eventually evolved into the word "theater.") Therefore, when something is a theory, that means it has been observed.

The Qur'an does not contain a complete chronology of creation. Quran gives hints of both, the creation and process of evolution.

Quran Says:
"Allah(meaning The God) is - Al Khaliq" (The Creator)
"Allah is - Al Bari" (The Shaper, Evolver, Designer)

"And Allah has Created every animal from water; of them are some creeping on their bellies; some walk on two legs; and some on four. Allah Creates what He wills: for sure Allah has Power over all things."
[Noble Quran 24:45]

The Quran has set a precedent 14 centuries before modern science, explaining in simple and direct terms about his "creation" of animals and their various functions and then assures us it is He who has the Power over everything. This statement includes the fact Allah can if He Wills, reshape and alter his creation as He Chooses. There is clear evidence within many species of alteration and changes within the species. However, there is no concrete evidence to support a cross over in development from one type to another, such as reptiles turning into birds or alligators turning into cows. The statements made in Quran are quite clear when Allah tells us of having brought forth other life forms and then destroying or replacing them with others. This again, does not imply evolution in the sense of one type becoming or changing into another.

But observation does. There's plenty of concrete evidence; many dinosaurs have feathers. There was an ancient Triassic reptile that had fur.

Allah tells us He is Al-Bari, (The Shaper or Evolver) but once again, this does not mean He has a need to bring about each individual life form all from one kind. Actually, while reading the Quran you learn He has brought many types and shapes and sizes as He Wills. Changes within species occur even as quickly as one or two seasons, not even taking a whole year, much less millions as was supposed by Darwin.

I don't know what changes you're referring to.
 

mohammad_rayhan

Was Atheist, Now a Muslim
Yes, there is.

Evolutionary coincidence.

No, there isn't.

Yes, it does. We gradually obtained it. Heck, ever since our species has appeared about 40,000 years ago, our brains have gotten a bit smaller.

"Merely a theory" is actually misleading, because that's the highest point a scientific concept can reach. It's like saying that gravity is "only a theory."

The word "theory", believe it or not, comes from a root that essentially means "that which is seen." (And, incidentally, is the same root that eventually evolved into the word "theater.") Therefore, when something is a theory, that means it has been observed.

But observation does. There's plenty of concrete evidence; many dinosaurs have feathers. There was an ancient Triassic reptile that had fur.

I don't know what changes you're referring to.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Let me explain very very briefly =). We as Muslims don't want to mock or make fun of the Theory of Evolution. We Muslims believe that the theory of evolution is a very powerful idea because its simple and it does seem to explain some phenomenon that we see and observe in the world in which we live and in the fossil record and so on and so forth.

So The Question Is - Do Muslims believe in evolution?

Well its not a principle in our religion to believe in the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution is not the essence for our faith. So do we believe it in a sense that its a dogmatic thing in which we have to believe in?? Well its not a must as long as its not proven to be 100 percent correct and as long the theory is not surrounded by other conspiracy theories that tries to prove its truthfulness =)

How ever Muslims - (by in large) do believe that the scientific methodology (as a methodology) is a good and sound methodology. And that if science conclusively proves something to be true, then as Muslims we cannot ignore such facts if it has been proved scientifically.

Now a days we Muslims still argue that the theory of evolution is not conclusive. There are still many holes and discrepancies, that have not been dealt with, concerning this theory, and there is lack of thorough evidence in order to fully say that we can really be sure that this theory as a fact has taken place.

However, in-spite of that we Muslims at large, can say that, there is nothing that contradicts the idea, that creatures have evolved through small stages into the complex, different organisms that we find in the world today. There is nothing in principle in the Quran or the teachings of our Prophet(P.B.U.H) that says that we cannot believe in that.

In fact the Quran teaches us how the human being is developed through stages of embryonic development. Where each stage are different than the other. The Qur’an provides a concise and eloquent account of the developing human embryo. God in a sense explains that He himself has developed us through distinct stages in our mothers wombs. So the idea of development through different distinct stages, is not an impossibility, but in fact its a reality and the Quran acknowledges it in the human embryonic development.

So how about this idea applying to life in general? Its certainly a possibility. However there are TWO THINGS THAT WE CANNOT AGREE WITH! =)

1 - As Muslims we cannot believe that these processes are completely apart from and separate from the power and the guidance of God. So if evolution is taking place its because God is The Evolver. God is evolving the creation. In other words, we cannot accept the premise that these are purely natural processes that don't have anything to do with the power of The Creator and the knowledge of The All Knowing God. We can't accept that evolution is random or a coincidence.

2 - Muslims (at large) stick to the Orthodox opinion that God has created the Human being miraculously. Adam(P.B.U.H) was created in a way that is miraculous just as Jesus(P.B.U.H) was created. Jesus was created without a father, in the womb of the Virgin Mary(P.B.U.Her). For God to create, He just says "BE", and that thing becomes. Jesus was human and he created him without a father and in a similar way Adam was created without a father and a mother. Distinct from what ever processes was going on in the world at that time, God introduced Adam in to the order of the world in a miraculous way. So do we believe that human-beings descended along with monkeys from a common primate? No we don't believe that. Islam cannot accept that. We (at large) stick with the Orthodox position. Does that mean that there could not have been human like creatures existing before Adam? According to the teachings of Islam, that is certainly possible!

What makes us different as humans actually, and the most fundamental difference that makes us different from the animals is the intellectual difference. We can see the world around us and analyze the creation around us and that any creation or design or law or phenomenon and so on. We as Muslims believe that we have a choice to submit our will to GOD or not to submit. That's is fundamental thing that makes us different from animals. The physiological differences doesn't matter to us like the shape of the arms or the legs or my nose or the brain or the skull. The fundamental thing that makes us human and that makes us different from the animals the the power to contemplate, think, analyze, and choose to submit to the Creator or choose not to do so. Our destiny in the here after depends on our choice and that is what makes us humans, totally different from an animal.

We Muslims do believe as the Quran teaches, that God created Adam miraculously and God created Eve from Adam. But that does not mean that the evolution of other creatures did not take place. Islam does not have anything to say about evolution, definitively one way or the other. Science is almost proving it to be true and we Muslims have to support science as long as it goes along with Islam.

And Allah(S.W.T) knows best.
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
2 - Muslims (at large) stick to the Orthodox opinion that God has created the Human being miraculously. Adam(P.B.U.H) was created in a way that is miraculous just as Jesus(P.B.U.H) was created. Jesus was created without a father, in the womb of the Virgin Mary(P.B.U.Her). For God to create, He just says "BE", and that thing becomes. Jesus was human and he created him without a father and in a similar way Adam was created without a father and a mother. Distinct from what ever processes was going on in the world at that time, God introduced Adam in to the order of the world in a miraculous way. So do we believe that human-beings descended along with monkeys from a common primate? No we don't believe that.

Nor do we. We're apes, not monkeys. :p

Islam cannot accept that. We (at large) stick with the Orthodox position. Does that mean that there could not have been human like creatures existing before Adam? According to the teachings of Islam, that is certainly possible!

What makes us different as humans actually, and the most fundamental difference that makes us different from the animals is the intellectual difference. We can see the world around us and analyze the creation around us and that any creation or design or law or phenomenon and so on. We as Muslims believe that we have a choice to submit our will to GOD or not to submit. That's is fundamental thing that makes us different from animals. The physiological differences doesn't matter to us like the shape of the arms or the legs or my nose or the brain or the skull. The fundamental thing that makes us human and that makes us different from the animals the the power to contemplate, think, analyze, and choose to submit to the Creator or choose not to do so. Our destiny in the here after depends on our choice and that is what makes us humans, totally different from an animal.

The ability you speak of doesn't always exist in humans. There are plenty of humans born without it; are they animals as you define, then? It's possible to lose the ability completely due to trauma; do we become animals as you define, then?

We share plenty of behaviors with other primates, most dominantly tool usage (chimpanzees and orangutans have been observed using spears). We can communicate with other great apes if we teach them how. (Ever hear of Koko?) Even extinct species like neanderthals seemed to demonstrate the ability to think with abstract concepts, since they appeared to ritually buried their dead, albeit in a VERY primitive manner. Remember: neanderthals were not the same species as us. Heck, it was homo erectus, not us, that first learned how to control fire.
 

mohammad_rayhan

Was Atheist, Now a Muslim
Nor do we. We're apes, not monkeys. :p

you didn't get what i meant - it was written -
So do we believe that human-beings descended ALONG WITH monkeys FROM A COMMON PRIMATE? No we don't believe that.

apes = muscular monkeys without a tail :D


The ability you speak of doesn't always exist in humans. There are plenty of humans born without it; are they animals as you define, then? It's possible to lose the ability completely due to trauma; do we become animals as you define, then?
Surely they are considered as humans but without these capabilities. And these people are granted paradise without any judgement. According to Islam - any being without the capabilities to think properly or with mental disorders are granted paradise. Judgement will not touch any being who is considered lower than the normal human intellect. (that includes all living beings plus animals)

We share plenty of behaviors with other primates, most dominantly tool usage (chimpanzees and orangutans have been observed using spears). We can communicate with other great apes if we teach them how. (Ever hear of Koko?) Even extinct species like neanderthals seemed to demonstrate the ability to think with abstract concepts, since they appeared to ritually buried their dead, albeit in a VERY primitive manner. Remember: neanderthals were not the same species as us. Heck, it was homo erectus, not us, that first learned how to control fire.

Surely we and our so called primates share plenty of common behaviors. And we Muslims wont get shocked if they start talking to humans one day. As in the movies :).

According to Islam - one of the major signs of the day of judgement is that (Wild animals will be able to talk to humans (Ahmad))
So the true fact is that we Muslims wont be intimidated if a gorilla or a monkey or a chimpanzee will start talking to us one day. Science predicts such evolution of other beings and we can accept it without hesitation.

According to another version of this report, the Prophet (saws) said: "By Him in Whose hand is my soul, the Hour will not come until wild animals talk to men, and a man speaks to his whip or his shoe, and his thigh will tell him about what happened to his family after he left."

"a man speaks to his whip or his shoe" - whips or shoes are normally black in color - So the prophet(saws) had a vision of a man talking to an object black in color. This is a clear prophecy about the modern invention of cellphones. We Muslim take it as a prophecy of the future. The mention by Abu Hurairah of "whips like the tail of an ox" may be an attempt to describe the antennas on cellphones, radios, cars, and televisions.

you can google search "Major signs Day of judjement Islam" for more info

good luck with the search =)

And Allah(swt) knows best. Peace!!!
 
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PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
What a muddle ... :facepalm:
Animals' behaviour is governed by chemistry. Chemical behaviour is governed by atoms, and atoms' behaviour are governed by the Standard Model. Hence, biology and cosmology are based on the same physics. (Different bits are relevant to them, though.)
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Let me explain very very briefly =). We as Muslims don't want to mock or make fun of the Theory of Evolution. We Muslims believe that the theory of evolution is a very powerful idea because its simple and it does seem to explain some phenomenon that we see and observe in the world in which we live and in the fossil record and so on and so forth.

So The Question Is - Do Muslims believe in evolution?

Well its not a principle in our religion to believe in the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution is not the essence for our faith. So do we believe it in a sense that its a dogmatic thing in which we have to believe in?? Well its not a must as long as its not proven to be 100 percent correct and as long the theory is not surrounded by other conspiracy theories that tries to prove its truthfulness =)

How ever Muslims - (by in large) do believe that the scientific methodology (as a methodology) is a good and sound methodology. And that if science conclusively proves something to be true, then as Muslims we cannot ignore such facts if it has been proved scientifically.

Now a days we Muslims still argue that the theory of evolution is not conclusive. There are still many holes and discrepancies, that have not been dealt with, concerning this theory, and there is lack of thorough evidence in order to fully say that we can really be sure that this theory as a fact has taken place.

However, in-spite of that we Muslims at large, can say that, there is nothing that contradicts the idea, that creatures have evolved through small stages into the complex, different organisms that we find in the world today. There is nothing in principle in the Quran or the teachings of our Prophet(P.B.U.H) that says that we cannot believe in that.

In fact the Quran teaches us how the human being is developed through stages of embryonic development. Where each stage are different than the other. The Qur’an provides a concise and eloquent account of the developing human embryo. God in a sense explains that He himself has developed us through distinct stages in our mothers wombs. So the idea of development through different distinct stages, is not an impossibility, but in fact its a reality and the Quran acknowledges it in the human embryonic development.

So how about this idea applying to life in general? Its certainly a possibility. However there are TWO THINGS THAT WE CANNOT AGREE WITH! =)

1 - As Muslims we cannot believe that these processes are completely apart from and separate from the power and the guidance of God. So if evolution is taking place its because God is The Evolver. God is evolving the creation. In other words, we cannot accept the premise that these are purely natural processes that don't have anything to do with the power of The Creator and the knowledge of The All Knowing God. We can't accept that evolution is random or a coincidence.

2 - Muslims (at large) stick to the Orthodox opinion that God has created the Human being miraculously. Adam(P.B.U.H) was created in a way that is miraculous just as Jesus(P.B.U.H) was created. Jesus was created without a father, in the womb of the Virgin Mary(P.B.U.Her). For God to create, He just says "BE", and that thing becomes. Jesus was human and he created him without a father and in a similar way Adam was created without a father and a mother. Distinct from what ever processes was going on in the world at that time, God introduced Adam in to the order of the world in a miraculous way. So do we believe that human-beings descended along with monkeys from a common primate? No we don't believe that. Islam cannot accept that. We (at large) stick with the Orthodox position. Does that mean that there could not have been human like creatures existing before Adam? According to the teachings of Islam, that is certainly possible!

What makes us different as humans actually, and the most fundamental difference that makes us different from the animals is the intellectual difference. We can see the world around us and analyze the creation around us and that any creation or design or law or phenomenon and so on. We as Muslims believe that we have a choice to submit our will to GOD or not to submit. That's is fundamental thing that makes us different from animals. The physiological differences doesn't matter to us like the shape of the arms or the legs or my nose or the brain or the skull. The fundamental thing that makes us human and that makes us different from the animals the the power to contemplate, think, analyze, and choose to submit to the Creator or choose not to do so. Our destiny in the here after depends on our choice and that is what makes us humans, totally different from an animal.

We Muslims do believe as the Quran teaches, that God created Adam miraculously and God created Eve from Adam. But that does not mean that the evolution of other creatures did not take place. Islam does not have anything to say about evolution, definitively one way or the other. Science is almost proving it to be true and we Muslims have to support science as long as it goes along with Islam.

And Allah(S.W.T) knows best.

What actual evidence do you have that your two points are true? Scribblings of desert barbarians do not count as evidence.

All the physical evidence in hand shows that humans are different from other animals only in minor rearrangements.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
apes = muscular monkeys without a tail :D

Far more to it than that:

Ape vs Monkey - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

Surely they are considered as humans but without these capabilities. And these people are granted paradise without any judgement. According to Islam - any being without the capabilities to think properly or with mental disorders are granted paradise. Judgement will not touch any being who is considered lower than the normal human intellect. (that includes all living beings plus animals)

But you said earlier that those capabilities are the qualifying factor for separating humans from animals. Therefore, by that logic, humans who lack those abilities are not humans.

This has nothing to do with whether paradise is granted.

Surely we and our so called primates share plenty of common behaviors. And we Muslims wont get shocked if they start talking to humans one day. As in the movies :).

Actually, we would, because current species of apes lack the physiological, neural, and genetic capabilities of complex verbal speech; hence why we need to communicate with sign language and other visual forms of communication.

According to Islam - one of the major signs of the day of judgement is that (Wild animals will be able to talk to humans (Ahmad))
So the true fact is that we Muslims wont be intimidated if a gorilla or a monkey or a chimpanzee will start talking to us one day. Science predicts such evolution of other beings and we can accept it without hesitation.

Monkeys will never start talking to us, in any way. Their brains are way too small. Again, apes are not monkeys, any more than monkeys are tarsiers. (If you don't know what that is, it's a type of primate that is frankly ADORABLE:

220px-Tarsier-GG.jpg
)

According to another version of this report, the Prophet (saws) said: "By Him in Whose hand is my soul, the Hour will not come until wild animals talk to men, and a man speaks to his whip or his shoe, and his thigh will tell him about what happened to his family after he left."

"a man speaks to his whip or his shoe" - whips or shoes are normally black in color - So the prophet(saws) had a vision of a man talking to an object black in color. This is a clear prophecy about the modern invention of cellphones. We Muslim take it as a prophecy of the future. The mention by Abu Hurairah of "whips like the tail of an ox" may be an attempt to describe the antennas on cellphones, radios, cars, and televisions.

you can google search "Major signs Day of judjement Islam" for more info

good luck with the search =)

And Allah(swt) knows best. Peace!!!

I honestly don't care about apocalyptic prophecies; I don't even give any credence to the ones of my own religion, let alone those of others.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Eventually, they certainly did. I'm not sure if that was the case at the outset. After all, the quran is supposed to be unaltered.

Mecca and Medina are pre-Islamic; therefore, they had a civilization. All it takes for a culture to qualify as a civilization is the existence of cities. :p
 
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