Wtc 7, It Own Story Of Controled Demolition And Cover Up.

[greatcalgarian]

Alright... give evidence that thermite bombs are known for making molten steel last in its molten state for 3 to 4 weeks.

Thermit is the chemicals that when reacted with iron, could result in generation of large amount of heat being released, and the heat will then melt the steel.

The question of the molten steel lasting 3 to 4 weeks is basically controlled by the amount of molten steel, the temperature reached by the molten steel, and the rate of heat lost. Considering the amount of steel present in the WTC, if the steel was heated to very much higher than just the melting point (which may take place if thermite was in large quantity in contact with the steel), that will explain the long period of time, since the molten steel is contained below ground level well insulated.

For thermite explosive see Steven Jones work.
Prof. Steven E. Jones about thermite melting WTC-steel - Google Video

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A thermite reaction is a type of aluminothermic reaction in which aluminium metal is oxidized by the oxide of another metal, most commonly iron oxide. The name thermite is also used to refer to a mixture of two such chemicals. The products are aluminium oxide, free elemental iron, and a large amount of heat. The reactants are commonly powdered and mixed with a binder to keep the material solid and prevent separation. The reaction is used for thermite welding, often used to join rails.
Although the reactants are stable at room temperature, they burn with an extremely intense exothermic reaction when they are heated to ignition temperature. The products emerge as liquids due to the high temperatures reached (up to 2500 °C (4500 °F) with iron(III) oxide)—although the actual temperature reached depends on how quickly heat can escape to the surrounding environment. Thermite contains its own supply of oxygen and does not require any external source of air.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

The important ingredient is the special oxide of iron, which provides the needed oxygen to continue the reaction. Hence even if burried and shielded away from air, reaction can proceed. That is the reason why the molten iron remained for so long in the molten state. Of course presence of other oxygen rich compound (potassium permanganate, or others) can also cause the melting of steel, if the combination of iron/aluminium/oxidizing agent is in the right proportion and in close contact.

 

[greatcalgarian]

These are great information on thermate and thermite:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?noframes;read=87929

Open Letter to Thomas Eagar on Molten Metal at WTC *PIC*

Posted By: ChristopherBollyn <Send E-Mail>
Date: Friday, 21 April 2006, 3:47 p.m.
​

Date: April 21, 2006
Provo, Utah
To: Thomas W. Eagar
[email protected]
Department of Materials Science and Engineering
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
From: Christopher Bollyn, American Free Press
Re: Professor Steven E. Jones Paper on
Molten Metal at World Trade Center
"Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?"
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
Dear Professor Eagar,
I was quite shocked when you refused to read the scientific paper by Professor Steven E. Jones of BYU dealing with the unanswered questions about the large amounts of molten metal that were seen cascading from the 81st floor of South Tower of the World Trade Center immediately before it began to collapse.
I was equally amazed when you said that there was no evidence of molten metal flowing from the 81st floor of the South Tower prior to the collapse and that this is some sort of hearsay.
And I was most disappointed when you suddenly hung up the phone on me.
Why are you unwilling to discuss the evidence of molten metal at the World Trade Center - before and after the "collapses?" It certainly appears that you were unable to answer my questions and decided to run away.
What do you call these attached photos showing molten metal cascading from the South Tower? Fakes?
(Note that Prof. Jones proves that this is not aluminum as some of the reports suggest. Molten aluminum is silver-gray in daylight.)
Why do you refuse to review the paper by Prof. Steven E. Jones of Brigham Young University about the molten metal found at the World Trade Center, before and after the collapses?
Professor Jones' webpage is here:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/
His paper on the molten metal is here:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
His research is the natural scientific investigation and follow-up of the unanswered questions, which are raised by the evidence and presented in the FEMA and NIST studies, serious scientific problems which these agencies clearly said required further study.
What kind of scientist are you anyway?
Rather than running from the research of Professor Jones, you should welcome and embrace such efforts to answer the questions of 9-11. As Jones says, "The data stands on its own."
What is this seriously-flawed "official version" of 9-11, which you seem to support, a religious myth that cannot be challenged?
Signed, Christopher Bollyn
American Free Press
Washington, D.C.

 

[Ryan2065]

Thermite reaches up to 4500 degrees F right? Thats "up to" as the article says so its more than likely the highest temp it actually reaches if used 100% properly (which of course we know the government does not do anything 100%, but lets imagine)

Now... the type of steel in the WTC melts at 2,800 degrees F so lets do some math. Melted steel was found 4 to 5 weeks after the twin towers went down, so lets round down to 28 days. Now, thats 672 hours.

There is a difference between the two numbers of 1700 degrees. What you are saying is that the earth turned into a natural thermos that only cooled the metal 2.5 degrees an hour over 28 days.

Now.. did this happen... Or did this happen?
http://www.wpi.edu/News/Transformations/2002Spring/steel.html

A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges--which are curled like a paper scroll--have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes--some larger than a silver dollar--let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending--but not holes.
A eutectic compound is a mixture of two or more substances that melts at the lowest temperature of any mixture of its components. Blacksmiths took advantage of this property by welding over fires of sulfur-rich charcoal, which lowers the melting point of iron. In the World Trade Center fire, the presence of oxygen, sulfur and heat caused iron oxide and iron sulfide to form at the surface of structural steel members. This liquid slag corroded through intergranular channels into the body of the metal, causing severe erosion and a loss of structural integrity.

You know... The first example ONLY involves speculation while the second example involves studies made by people who had parts of the melted metal in the WTC.

I love this comic... Its really great! Its from maddox.xmission.com but the exact link I won't put in because of foul language and all that jazz on the website.

 

[Ryan2065]

So you posted a letter written by someone who called a researcher involved with the WTC who got hung up on? I'm suprised the man even said anything to the student before hanging up on him... Im expecting he gets a few phone calls about this same thing.

 

[greatcalgarian]

So you posted a letter written by someone who called a researcher involved with the WTC who got hung up on? I'm suprised the man even said anything to the student before hanging up on him... Im expecting he gets a few phone calls about this same thing.

This some one happened to be

AFP's Statement on the Dismissal of Christopher Bollyn​

As many people are already aware, we were recently put in a difficult position and felt it had become necessary to distance ourselves from Christopher Bollyn. This decision, made by the entire editorial board, had to be made. So far, we have tried to respect the privacy of Christopher by not discussing our views on this matter with the general public, but following a series of disclosures by Christopher himself, we felt it was necessary to release to the public the details behind his termination.

Recently it came to our attention that, on at least three occasions—publicly and privately—Christopher has given credence to a pernicious charge that American Free Press has been infiltrated and controlled by “Zionists,” thus lending his support to attacks on the credibility and integrity of American Free Press and its staff.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Thermite reaches up to 4500 degrees F right? Thats "up to" as the article says so its more than likely the highest temp it actually reaches if used 100% properly (which of course we know the government does not do anything 100%, but lets imagine)

Now... the type of steel in the WTC melts at 2,800 degrees F so lets do some math. Melted steel was found 4 to 5 weeks after the twin towers went down, so lets round down to 28 days. Now, thats 672 hours.

There is a difference between the two numbers of 1700 degrees. What you are saying is that the earth turned into a natural thermos that only cooled the metal 2.5 degrees an hour over 28 days.

You have to understand time is not the only factor and conductivity is not the only factor, and one of the important factor you have not taken into consideration in your estimation is the amount of substance or the system you are looking at!

To give you some idea. Fill a thermoflask full, half full, and one third full etc, and check the temperature for the three cases after a day.

 

[greatcalgarian]

This web page however gives debunking of Professor Jones work, it is up to you to believe this web or Professor Jones:
http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm
Alex Jones, professional conspiracy theorist radio host, has said Jones found evidence of thermite. This isn't true. What Jones found was something which would have been in the debris pile anyway. Sulfur...
WTC Thermite
Sulfur
In Steven Jones' PDF "Answers to Objections and Questions", to support his claim for Sol-gels/Thermite he states:

"One molecule, described by the EPA's Erik Swartz, was present at levels "that dwarfed all others": 1,3-diphenylpropane. "We've never observed it in any sampling we've ever done,"
​

However when you look at the link he uses
http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsair0911,0,471193.story?coll=ny-homepage-right-area
You find out Mr. Jones edits out the VERY next line which states

"He said it was most likely produced by the plastic of tens of thousands of burning computers."
​

Apparently, Jones felt this was not important enough for his readers to know.
Sloppy research or purposeful deception by the "scholars"? The evidence for one is growing...
Thanks to Shagster, ScottS and David B. Benson for their research.

 

[Ryan2065]

To give you some idea. Fill a thermoflask full, half full, and one third full etc, and check the temperature for the three cases after a day.

But is the ground a thermos? Dig a hole. Randomly throw debriss into the hole. Now... here is the amazing part! Pour very very hot LIQUID into the hole and see how hot it is 3 days later. A thermos is DESIGNED to keep something warm... The chances of the debris falling in just the right fashion to create a debris thermos that is more efficient than a thermos designed by engineers is a very particular notion.

Oh... and you know, just disregard the scientists who actually studied the materials from the WTC... its what conspiracy theorists do best.

 

[greatcalgarian]

But is the ground a thermos? Dig a hole. Randomly throw debriss into the hole. Now... here is the amazing part! Pour very very hot LIQUID into the hole and see how hot it is 3 days later. A thermos is DESIGNED to keep something warm... The chances of the debris falling in just the right fashion to create a debris thermos that is more efficient than a thermos designed by engineers is a very particular notion.

Oh... and you know, just disregard the scientists who actually studied the materials from the WTC... its what conspiracy theorists do best.

I am giving you the analogy of the importance of considering the amount of materials. I have already told you the importance of thermal conductivity and heat may be transmitted away from a higher temperature body to a lower temperature body via various way of convective, convective, and radiation, one is through a circulating fluid media, one is in solid or fluid contact without any motion, and the third is via direct heat radiation loss. You are talking about something about debris falling forming a thermos is not what I am answering your initial question.

NIST FEMA etc never answer the question of the 'molten metal' accumulated at the base of the collapsed buidling. Remember, please, they have officially admitted that they have done nothing to study the debris or analyze the steel etc......

Please read the following interesting view by Bill Veale, which he also included his email with the NYT investigative reporter Jim Dwyer:

http://vealetruth.com/2006/10/23/trying-to-be-reasonable-about-911-%e2%80%9cconspiracies%e2%80%9d/

 

[Ryan2065]

NIST FEMA etc never answer the question of the 'molten metal' accumulated at the base of the collapsed buidling. Remember, please, they have officially admitted that they have done nothing to study the debris or analyze the steel etc......

I already posted the studies on the metal that showed what happened. The only question they have left unanswered about this is where did the materials come from to create this reaction. It was published in 2002 and they note that FEMA might want to do more studies on this but after that there are no more links or anything like that. The reason NIST and FEMA don't spend billions of dollars figuring out why there was liquid metal after the explosions is because they decided proving that the explosions were not caused by bombs should be all the tax payers should have to pay on this ridiculous investigation that takes time and money away from people that could be better served elsewhere.

You are more willing to believe that there is a government wide conspiracy that involves thousands of people who are all able to keep their mouths shut about this rather than look at the science and know that jet fuel burns hotter than 1000 degrees F and when steel gets to 1000 degrees F it has the tendency to turn to an eutectic compound when combined with sulfur which will lower its melting point drastically (to the melting point of sulfur actually).

You have also not put forth any information showing that these thermite bombs can keep an area so hot that it will keep steel melted for 4 weeks. I would imagine all those buildings destroyed by bombs would be good sources... Or any videos where thermite is used to blow something up showing that the thermite keeps things hot for 4 weeks would be nice... Theres tons of research on both of these things independent of 9/11 attacks (not made for the purpose of proving/disproving what happened) so using those materials it should be easy to prove... Right?

So please... Tell me exactly how much thermite the government would need in order to blow up the WTC buildings. It would be nice to know so that we could know if the people who went to work that morning would have seen thermite all over or not.

 

[greatcalgarian]

So please... Tell me exactly how much thermite the government would need in order to blow up the WTC buildings. It would be nice to know so that we could know if the people who went to work that morning would have seen thermite all over or not.

I happen to come across this info recently, and please read the entire article, which provide possible answer to your above question. However, bear in mind that I have not done any checking on this article calculation, and I am not asking you to believe it like a bible, which you do for all government published reports such as the 9/11 commission, where David Ray Griffin has pointed out so many controversy and abnormality and there were no government refutal, nor any satisfactory debunking from government suppporters:

Calculations on the Possible Use of Thermite
to Melt Sections of the WTC Core Columns​

​

by D. P. Grimmer​

​

Version 1.1, June 20th 2004
Abstract
Anomalies involving the collapse of WTC buildings on 9-11 are discussed from the perspective of possible controlled demolition implosion rather than of aircraft impact and fuel-fire damage. Considered is the possible use of thermite to melt sections of the columns of the WTC towers inner cores, thus aiding in their collapse. This paper will discuss the structure of the WTC core columns, and estimate the mass of metal to be melted; calculate the sensible and latent heat energy needed for melting this mass; discuss the nature and specific energies of the thermite reaction; estimate the mass and volume of thermite necessary to provide the energies for melting; and discuss the possible locations where such thermite could be placed to cause melting, both internal and external to a core column.
http://physics911.net/thermite.htm

This thermite things have been in circulation for a long while, but it was not until the BYU Professor of Physics Steven Jones carried out scientific analysis to show that the component of thermite was detected, that brings this possibility up again. Remember the NIST and FEMA came up with initial explanation of WTC1 and WTC2 collapse theories, including some from University Professors supportive of plane and fire sufficient to bring down the towers, but FEMA attempted to hide the WTC7 collapse until public was aroused by 9/11 'conspirators' (9/11 truth seekers I prefer to call them), then only they said they are going to investigate it.

I am rather surprised you buy the reason that since the government did not suspect that explosive could be one of the possible cause, and hence to SAVE PUBLIC MONEY, the government decided not to even look at it. If a professor of physics with limited university support can carried out a few simple experiments to verify whether explosives were used or not, I do not see how saving money could be a good reason for not looking into this.
http://physics911.net/stevenjones.htm

Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?​

By Steven E. Jones
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84604​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The views in this paper are the sole responsibility of the author (not Brigham Young University)
[/FONT]

 

[greatcalgarian]

It has always being claimed by debunker of 9/11 'conspiracy theories' that those conspirators are not scientists or engineers (they like to use STRUCTURAL engineer, as though that is a magic word), here is a list of one group, and you can feel free to contact them or check their credential. Note that it is very dangerous for US professors to come up to tell the truth, such as one Churchill Ward and a second one Steven Jones. Other than those very famous left wing professors which are well established and CIA/FBI will not be able to harrass them to shut them off, most professors prefer to stay clear of 9/11, and forget about the moral issue of whether the government is telling a lie or not.

S.P.I.N.E. : The Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] Members of the Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-eleven come from a variety of professional backgrounds. Some investigate aspects of the 9/11 attacks, others search the web for useful information, and some write up new material. We have tried to maintain professional standards in both the analysis and presentation of the evidence we have assembled, as well as in the scenarios we have constructed.

General Statement by the Panel: [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] "We have found solid scientific grounds on which to question the interpretation put upon the events of September 11, 2001 by the Office of the President of the United States of America and subsequently propagated by the major media of western nations. Our analysis of the detailed evidence implies a staged attack employing a variety of deceptive arrangements. Indeed, every element of the September 11 attacks, including cellphone calls from fast-moving aircraft, has an alternate means of creation."[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] Panel members are scientists, engineers, and other professionals. All contribute through search and research. Members of S.P.I.N.E. may be contacted by clicking here and entering the name of the member you'd like to contact, along with a brief message.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Members:[/FONT]

Robert Ballan
Norwood, NY, USA
​

MSc & JD: Clarkson College
Chemistry & Law
​

Kevin Barrett
Lone Rock WI, USA

PhD U of Wisconsin
Islamic Studies
​

Walter Davis
Kent, OH, USA

PhD: U of Connecticut
Kinesiology ​

A. K. Dewdney
London, Canada

PhD: U of Waterloo
Mathematics ​

Derrick Grimmer
Ames, IA, USA

PhD: Washington University
Physics ​

Joel Harel
Laguna Hills, CA, USA

HBS U. of Edinburgh.
Aeronautical Engineer and Qualified Pilot
​

David Heller
Berkeley, CA

BS: Physics Bard College
MA: S. F. Inst. Architecture
Architect and Builder

​

Annie Higgins
Gainesville, FL

PhD University of Chicago
Arabic Language & Literature

​

Timothy P. Howell
Upsala, Sweden

PhD: U. of Edinburgh
Computer Science ​

Don Trent (Four Arrows) Jacobs
Sequim, WA

Ed. D. Boise State University
Professor, Fielding Graduate U​

Steven E. Jones
Provo, Utah

PhD: Vanderbilt University
Physicist, Brigham Young U.​

Peter J. Kirsch
Western Cape, South Africa

MD: University of Witwatersrand
Forensic Pathology​

Karen Kwiatkowski
Mt. Jackson, VA

PhD Catholic University
Lieut. Col. USAF (ret.)​

Jerry Longspaugh
Fort Worth, TX, USA

MSc: Brooklyn Polytechnic
Aerospace Engineer​

Brad Mayeaux
Kenner, LA, USA

Electr. &Tech. Inst. of New Orleans
Cellphone Engineer​

George F. Nelson
Huntsville, AL, USA

FAA A&P Licence
US Airforce Colonel (ret.) ​

Ralph W. Omholt
Kirkland, WA, USA

AAPP University of Alaska
Professional Airline Pilot ​

Morgan Reynolds
Arkansas, USA

PhD: U of Wisconsin
former Chief Economist,
United States Department of Labor

​

Kevin Ryan
Bloomington, IN, USA

BSc Indiana University
Chemistry
ASQ Certified Quality Engineer

​

Sofia Shafquat
San Diego, CA, USA

BA Brown University
Producer and Writer
​

David Shayler
Eastbourne, Great Britain

Hon MA Lit. & Linguistics
MI5 (former)​

Helen Stace
Perth, Australia

PhD: U of Sydney
Biology​

Bernard Windham
Tallahassee, FL, USA

MS Florida State
MS Louisiana State
Statistician ​

Russ Wittenberg
Carefree, AZ

BBA U. of Miami FL
US Airforce Capt. (ret)
Captain for PAA & UAL​

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Associate Members:[/FONT]

Karin Brothers
Toronto, Canada

MS Georgia State
Instructional Design Systems Engineer​

John DiNardo
Towaco, NJ, USA

BA: Kean University
Science Education ​

Donald Eckhoff
Morgan Hill CA, USA

Drexel Institute of Technology
Engineer & manufacturer​

Kenyon Gibson
London, England

USC @ Santa Barbara
US Naval Intelligence​

Jesse Hemingway
Al Cahon, CA, USA

BBA National University
(frmr.) USN Operations Specialist​

Phil Jayhan
Chicago, IL, USA

Barrington High
Technician and
Webmaster​

Frank Levi
Dromara, N. Ireland

BSc (Hons) Queens University of Belfast
IT Manager​

Don Paul
San Francisco, CA, USA

Stegner Fellow: Stanford University
Author/Activist​

Martha Rush
Auburn Hills, MI, USA

Oxford High School
Certified Respiratory Therapist & Private Pilot

​

Jonah Winters
Vancouver, Canada

MA: U of Toronto
Web Designer ​

http://physics911.net/spine.htm

 

[greatcalgarian]

You are more willing to believe that there is a government wide conspiracy that involves thousands of people who are all able to keep their mouths shut about this rather than {look at the science and know that jet fuel burns hotter than 1000 degrees F and when steel gets to 1000 degrees F it has the tendency to turn to an eutectic compound when combined with sulfur which will lower its melting point drastically (to the melting point of sulfur actually)}.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Question 1. How could the attacks be faked in such a massive operation? Surely one of the hundreds of people involved would step forward and declare what they know to the media. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Answer: Three major elements in the operational security of the September 11 Black Op would not be guessed by the average citizen, this amounting to a fourth element. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]First, most of the participants in the operation had no idea they were participating in it. Instead, they thought they were involved in a war game scheduled for that day (coincidence number 123). For example several fighter wings had been flown out of the area as part of the games, providing scant air cover in the event. Later, when 911 itself resulted in the call down of all commercial aircraft, this would have made it possible to land three of the hijacked flights in the confusion, while substitute aircraft took over. Thus, 911 acted as its own cover, in effect, as well.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Second, many of the key participants in the operation already belonged to intelligence agencies from one of the participating countries, principally (at a guess) the CIA, MI6, and Mossad. All three agencies are known to have black ops and Mossad, in particular, has a very long history in explosive ordnance disposal (EOD, as it is known in the trade. (This branch of special operations has little to do with “disposal” and much to do with “explosives.”) No intelligence officer is likely to blow the cover on an operation to which he/she is fully committed. Even if an intel type decided to tell all, he or she would be scheduled for immediate “extreme prejudice” treatment, not to mention the barrier he or she would face in the next paragraph. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Third, as our own experience with the media suggests, stories that directly contradict the spin are unwelcome, to say the least, even from undercover agents. The extremely sensitive nature of the story would trigger a series of consultations up the chain of ownership to the top, from which a flat “no” would be issued. The mere possibility of Israel being involved in such a story would send owners into a panic. It is a matter of public record that all five principal owners are committed zionists for whom Israel can do no wrong. (See the MEDIA tab at the top of our index page for further information.) [/FONT]
http://physics911.net/faq.htm
There are other web pages that gives detail response to the questions.

 

[greatcalgarian]

I already posted the studies on the metal that showed what happened. The only question they have left unanswered about this is where did the materials come from to create this reaction. It was published in 2002 and they note that FEMA might want to do more studies on this but after that there are no more links or anything like that. The reason NIST and FEMA don't spend billions of dollars figuring out why there was liquid metal after the explosions is because they decided proving that the explosions were not caused by bombs should be all the tax payers should have to pay on this ridiculous investigation that takes time and money away from people that could be better served elsewhere.[Do you know how much they spent on investigating watergate or Clinton? The amount of money they spent on 9/11 for the 9/11 commission report is really peanut. Thanks to the US government for so concern about saving money for US citizen ]

Anyway, I do not agree with all the postulation by this Morgan Reynolds (who like to postulate pod and missiles, and not the real 767 that struck the towers), but I think you should find his paper stimulating debunking NIST and FEMA report:

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Why Did the Trade Center Skyscrapers Collapse?
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]by Morgan Reynolds[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"It didn’t seem real… [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]There are thousands of these steel beams [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]that just fell like pickup sticks."[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]~ John Albanese, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]volunteer firefighter and amateur photographer [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"What struck us – guys like Warren Jennings and myself, who have [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]spent basically all our lives in the scrap business – we’d never [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]seen steel this heavy, this huge, this massive. It was just [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]unbelievable."[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]~ Michael Henderson (p. 93),
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]General Manager, Marine Terminals, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Metal Management NE[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]To explain the unanticipated free-fall collapses of the twin towers at the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, mainstream experts (also see The American Professional Constructor, October 2004, pp. 12–18) offer a three-stage argument: 1) an airplane impact weakened each structure, 2) an intense fire thermally weakened structural components that may have suffered damage to fireproofing materials, causing buckling failures, which, in turn, 3) allowed the upper floors to pancake onto the floors below. [/FONT]
http://physics911.net/reynolds.htm

I particularly like this one:
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]A related point is that demolition companies go to considerable expense to wire steel-framed skyscrapers with explosives to produce safe implosions, and they would love to do it more cheaply by simply setting two small fires like those that (allegedly) caved in building 7. Apparently, the terrorist-inventors have kept this new technology secret. [/FONT]

And you are not a supporter of Brown, I believe.:drool: ​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]The collapse of the WTC[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]by Kevin Ryan
Underwriters Laboratories
Thursday, Nov 11, 2004
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The following letter was sent today by Kevin Ryan of Underwriters Laboratories to Frank Gayle of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Underwriters Laboratories is the company that certified the steel componets used in the constuction of the World Trade Center towers. The information in this letter is of great importance.

Dr. Gayle,

Having recently reviewed your team's report of 10/19/04, I felt the need to contact you directly.

As I'm sure you know, the company I work for certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings. In requesting information from both our CEO and Fire Protection business manager last year, I learned that they did not agree on the essential aspects of the story, except for one thing - that the samples we certified met all requirements. They suggested we all be patient and understand that UL was working with your team, and that tests would continue through this year. I'm aware of UL's attempts to help, including performing tests on models of the floor assemblies. But the results of these tests appear to indicate that the buildings should have easily withstood the thermal stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel.

There continues to be a number of "experts" making public claims about how the WTC buildings fell. One such person, Dr. Hyman Brown from the WTC construction crew, claims that the buildings collapsed due to fires at 2000F melting the steel (1). He states "What caused the building to collapse is the airplane fuel…burning at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The steel in that five-floor area melts." Additionally, the newspaper that quotes him says "Just-released preliminary findings from a National Institute of Standards and Technology study of the World Trade Center collapse support Brown’s theory."

We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all.
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[anyscientologist]

Ryan:
I was already scientific on another thread.

So you can be scientific here too.

Show me scientific studies that prove thermite bombs are known for leaving molten steel up to 3 to 4 weeks after the explosion and I will gladly use the search feature on this forum to find the links I posted a month or two ago.

To start with, you need to remember (or go to a ) highschool quemestry laboratory, where the teacher would give you aluminum powder, iron oxide powder, tell you to mix it good into a porcelain pot, put a magnesium strip, ignite the magnesium with a match and see the strong heat reaction, with lots of britht light.

After the reaction ended, you would see the pot red hot, and the teacher would tell you there was melted iron in the pot and aluminum oxide as a crust. You wold shurely have to wait some time for the iron to solidify. Now we have to make calculations for the ammounts involved. How muchs does it take for a post of melted iron to solidify? half a kilo of it? and how much does it take for several hundred tons of melted iron, in a hot envirionment in a basement to solidify?

That's what a lab is neaded for, but you know, Profesor Jones has been fired by the police state. So you would have to wait to get an answer on the time it takes to solidity several hundred tons of melted iron.

Maybe some engeneer could give light into this. They use termite to weld railroad tracks, and they could tell us how much time it takes a small pool of melted steel to solidify and weld the tracks. Take into account this small pool of melted steel is in contact with both railroad tracks that pull the heat away.

Also in the field of iron casting there would be some figures for melted steel parts to solidify.

 

[anyscientologist]

Ryan:
I was already scientific on another thread.

So you can be scientific here too.

Show me scientific studies that prove thermite bombs are known for leaving molten steel up to 3 to 4 weeks after the explosion and I will gladly use the search feature on this forum to find the links I posted a month or two ago.

To start with, you need to remember (or go to a ) highschool quemestry laboratory, where the teacher would give you aluminum powder, iron oxide powder, tell you to mix it good into a porcelain pot, put a magnesium strip, ignite the magnesium with a match and see the strong heat reaction, with lots of britht light.

After the reaction ended, you would see the pot red hot, and the teacher would tell you there was melted iron in the pot and aluminum oxide as a crust. You wold shurely have to wait some time for the iron to solidify. Now we have to make calculations for the ammounts involved. How muchs does it take for a post of melted iron to solidify? half a kilo of it? and how much does it take for several hundred tons of melted iron, in a hot envirionment in a basement to solidify?

That's what a lab is neaded for, but you know, Profesor Jones has been fired by the police state. So you would have to wait to get an answer on the time it takes to solidity several hundred tons of melted iron.

Maybe some engeneer could give light into this. They use termite to weld railroad tracks, and they could tell us how much time it takes a small pool of melted steel to solidify and weld the tracks. Take into account this small pool of melted steel is in contact with both railroad tracks that pull the heat away.

Also in the field of iron casting there would be some figures for melted steel parts to solidify.

 

[anyscientologist]

Ryan:
I was already scientific on another thread.

So you can be scientific here too.

Show me scientific studies that prove thermite bombs are known for leaving molten steel up to 3 to 4 weeks after the explosion and I will gladly use the search feature on this forum to find the links I posted a month or two ago.

To start with, you need to remember (or go to a ) highschool quemestry laboratory, where the teacher would give you aluminum powder, iron oxide powder, tell you to mix it good into a porcelain pot, put a magnesium strip, ignite the magnesium with a match and see the strong heat reaction, with lots of britht light.

After the reaction ended, you would see the pot red hot, and the teacher would tell you there was melted iron in the pot and aluminum oxide as a crust. You wold shurely have to wait some time for the iron to solidify. Now we have to make calculations for the ammounts involved. How muchs does it take for a post of melted iron to solidify? half a kilo of it? and how much does it take for several hundred tons of melted iron, in a hot envirionment in a basement to solidify?

That's what a lab is neaded for, but you know, Profesor Jones has been fired by the police state. So you would have to wait to get an answer on the time it takes to solidity several hundred tons of melted iron.

Maybe some engeneer could give light into this. They use termite to weld railroad tracks, and they could tell us how much time it takes a small pool of melted steel to solidify and weld the tracks. Take into account this small pool of melted steel is in contact with both railroad tracks that pull the heat away.

Also in the field of iron casting there would be some figures for melted steel parts to solidify.

 

[anyscientologist]

Ryan2065
Quote:
To give you some idea. Fill a thermoflask full, half full, and
one third full etc, and check the temperature for the three
cases after a day.

But is the ground a thermos? Dig a hole. Randomly throw debriss into the hole. Now... here is the amazing part! Pour very very hot LIQUID into the hole and see how hot it is 3 days later.

If you dig a hole the size of a small car, and pour melted iron in it, it wont be the same as digging a hole the size of a street square and pour hundred of tons of melted iron in it. You were told the difference is the size.

A thermos is DESIGNED to keep something warm... The chances of the debris falling in just the right fashion to create a debris thermos that is more efficient than a thermos designed by engineers is a very particular notion.

Do you know the nature of the WTC debris?

Oh... and you know, just disregard the scientists who actually studied the materials from the WTC... its what conspiracy theorists do best.

The Government-payed "scientists" you refer were regarded and they provided valuable evidence of an inside job. Why would a Government payed "scientist" hang up the phone when confronted with evidence of molten steel (evidence he said do not exist but you can see).

The answer for the above question is easy.

Ryan2065
Quote:
NIST FEMA etc never answer the question of the 'molten metal'
accumulated at the base of the collapsed buidling. Remember,
please, they have officially admitted that they have done
nothing to study the debris or analyze the steel etc......

I already posted the studies on the metal that showed what happened. The only question they have left unanswered about this is where did the materials come from to create this reaction.

Minor detail? Ja ja ja ja.

It was published in 2002 and they note that FEMA might want to do more studies on this but after that there are no more links or anything like that. The reason NIST and FEMA don't spend billions of dollars figuring out why there was liquid metal after the explosions is because they decided proving that the explosions were not caused by bombs should be all the tax payers should have to pay on this ridiculous investigation that takes time and money away from people that could be better served elsewhere.

Are you saing that FEMA sais "Hey, I don't want all that taxpayer's money"! That's a good joke.

You are more willing to believe that there is a government wide conspiracy that involves thousands of people who are all able to keep their mouths shut about this

Something that has happened time and time again. Kennedy, Cold war, 9/11, etc, etc.

rather than look at the science and know that jet fuel burns hotter than 1000 degrees F and when steel gets to 1000 degrees F it has the tendency to turn to an eutectic compound when combined with sulfur which will lower its melting point drastically (to the melting point of sulfur actually).

And that the ammounts of sulphur present in the WTC site materials (not the thermite bombs) the sulphur wouldn't eat more than the surface skin of the iron steel. Not to say how the structure was weakened in places not afected by fires.

You have also not put forth any information showing that these thermite bombs can keep an area so hot that it will keep steel melted for 4 weeks.

It's not only the temperature, but the size.

So please... Tell me exactly how much thermite the government would need in order to blow up the WTC buildings.

Shure. You could ask a military demolitions engeneer, or Cheney or a government payed NIST "Scientist" who would have supervised the "job". Profesor Jones would do that more easylly with a lab, but he was fired, you know.

It would be nice to know so that we could know if the people who went to work that morning would have seen thermite all over or not.

Don't you know the towers were evacuated several times and cameras were disconected on power shutdowns and dogs detecting bombs were removed. Shure in those cases people wouldn't see the bombs.

 

[anyscientologist]

This is real science:

WARNING. COWARDS AND GOVERNMENT PAYED "SCIENTISTS" AND "ENGENEERS" READ UNDER THEIR OWN RISK:

To this end, NIST must release the 6,899 photographs and over 300 hours of video recordings – acquired mostly by private parties – which it admits to holding (NIST, 2005, p. 81). In particular, photos and analyses of the molten metal (probably not molten steel) observed in the basements of both Towers and WTC7 need to be brought forth to the international community of scientists and engineers immediately. Therefore, along with others, I call for the release of these and all relevant data for scrutiny by a cross-disciplinary, international team of researchers. The explosive-demolition hypothesis will be considered: all options will be on the table.

Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?​

By Steven E. Jones
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84604

http://physics911.net/stevenjones.htm​

 

[Ody]

This is real science:
WARNING. COWARDS AND GOVERNMENT PAYED "SCIENTISTS" AND "ENGENEERS" READ UNDER THEIR OWN RISK:

LOL!!