Wy could not the big bang also be consistent with a 6 day creation?

[URAVIP2ME]

...........................Again, the bible specifically claims Christ died physically on the cross to pay the wages of sin. Spiritual death of Adam and Eve (as claimed by TEists in order to try to make the bible fit the science) is inconsistent with the physical model of Atonement given via the Old Testament Sanctuary service.
There is also Christs physical incarnation, physical ministry, physical death on the cross, physical ressurection, physical ascention into heaven, and finally, the physical second coming where those who are saved are physically taken to heaven...........................

Yes, died a physical death until his God resurrected dead Jesus out of the grave - Acts 2:27,31
Thus Jesus balanced the Scales of Justice for us.
Perfect Adam proved: un-faithful, Perfect Jesus proved: faithful.

Pre-human heavenly Jesus had a spirit body when God sent Jesus to earth for us.
God resurrected Jesus back to his spirit body according to 1st Peter 3:18 B.
Put to death in the flesh (physical) and made alive (KJV quickened) in the spirit.
KJV quickening spirit as also mentioned at 1st Cor. 15:45
So, Jesus ascended into heaven in a spirit body.
Or, as 1st Cor. 15:50 says ' flesh.........' (physical) can Not inherit the Kingdom.

So, No physical taking to heaven, rather a heavenly 1st or earlier resurrection to heaven for Jesus' spiritual 'brothers'- Matt. 25:40; Rev. 20:6 ; 5:9-10
On the other hand, the figurative 'sheep' (Matt. 25:37) can remain alive on Earth and can gain everlasting life on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

See that is where your rationale is really problematic.

Read the 4th Commandment

8Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant or livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day He rested. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.​

and then answer me this...given that the Jews celebrated the 4th commandment as written for thousands of years...and if Noahs flood is to be taken as written, at least another 15oo years prior to the flood as well...would you not agree that the Jewish interpretation of "evening and the morning ":

- given the Genesis 6 day creation and rest on the Seventh day (ie 1 day, 2, day, 3 day etc...) and,
- given the entire Mosaic Sanctuary service expanded on this principle in order to develop the various religious festivals and feasts representative of the method by which the entire human race would be "saved from their sin"

was in fact a real day of 24 hours?

Are you truly going to continue with that really really deficient statement? Have you ever heard a JW deny the trinity doctrine? Do you know what one of their most common arguments (albeit a really stupid one) is? "show us the word Trinity in the bible"! You argument above reminds me of the JW approach to interpreting scripture on the Trinity.

"to say God made a young earth look old is saying God is deceitful"

I have heard this claim so many times...and not once has anyone ever provided and sound biblical referencing to actually back up the claim. The reason why is simple...the claim doesnt come from within Religion, or a Christian world view...it comes from the premise that science and scientific interpretation cannot be corrupted or what we see around us as being influenced by sin. It is only those who are forced to maintain allegiance to uniformitarianism that have an issue with this. Christians who read the bible correctly recognize that the Bible tells us this world has not been uniform since the fall of Man and in particular at the time of the flood.

see www.jw.org

It is plain that God had No beginning according to Psalm 90:2, thus God was 'before ' any beginning.
Whereas, pre-human heavenly Jesus had a beginning " in the beginning " meaning Jesus was Not 'before' the beginning.
- Revelation 3:14 B.

 

[danieldemol]

Just as in English we speak of grandfather's day and know that is not a 24 hr. day but a period of time.
ALL of the creative days are summed up by the word ' day ' at Genesis 2:4

Post hoc rationalisation in my view.

Thus, each creative day could be of the same or of differing lenghts of time.

Non sequitur in my opinion

Plus, God's 7th day ( resting from further creation ) was still on-going in the first century and still is - Hebrews 4:10

That's not what Hebrews 4:10 says in my view, here it is from the NIV;
'for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his.'
Note the past tense "did". Also since humans can't be in a permanent state of rest the passage seems to be a command to obey the sabbath at a cursory glance as i see it

 

[blü 2]

During which time, God created the creepy-crawly things. Got it ...

Yes, that makes sense ...

 

[Polymath257]

An expanding universe is in harmony with Scripture - Jeremiah 10:12 B; Jeremiah 51:15; Isaiah 40:22

Are you sure that is the correct interpretation? Remember that at that time it was believed that the 'heavens' were like a piece of fabric, or even a solid that covered the flat earth as a dome (or a tent).

 

[Subduction Zone]

An expanding universe is in harmony with Scripture - Jeremiah 10:12 B; Jeremiah 51:15; Isaiah 40:22

The last one is a Flat Earth verse. Especially if you read it in the Hebrew.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Post hoc rationalisation in my view.
Non sequitur in my opinion
That's not what Hebrews 4:10 says in my view, here it is from the NIV;
'for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his.'
Note the past tense "did". Also since humans can't be in a permanent state of rest the passage seems to be a command to obey the sabbath at a cursory glance as i see it

The Sabbaths keeping ended with the end of the temporary Constitution of the Mosaic Law only for ancient Israel - Romans 10:4; Heb. 10:1
God rested from His creative works, and His rest day has Not yet ended because we don't see more 'works of creation'.
We can all 'rest' so to speak, from our former works that we did before becoming a Christian. - Hebrews 4:11

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The last one is a Flat Earth verse. Especially if you read it in the Hebrew.

Job 22:14 does Not indicate a flat Earth.
It was non-Israelite nations that could have believed a flat Earth.

In the Hebrew I read at Isaiah 40:22
" It is He who sits on the circumference of the earth, ............; who spreads the heavens (plural) like a thin curtain, and stretches them like a tent to dwell in." - God who is the Master of nature. Circumference is round and not necessarily flat. Circumference of the globe.

- Isaiah 44:24; Zechariah 12:12

 

[Subduction Zone]

Job 22:14 does Not indicate a flat Earth.
It was non-Israelite nations that could have believed a flat Earth.

In the Hebrew I read at Isaiah 40:22
" It is He who sits on the circumference of the earth, ............; who spreads the heavens (plural) like a thin curtain, and stretches them like a tent to dwell in." - God who is the Master of nature. Circumference is round and not necessarily flat. Circumference of the globe.

- Isaiah 44:24; Zechariah 12:12

What makes you think that they are not flat Earth verses? If you read the Old Testament, and even the New Testament, it only describes the Earth as flat.

 

[danieldemol]

God rested from His creative works, and His rest day has Not yet ended because we don't see more 'works of creation'.

New stars and planets are still forming in my view;

'Our Milky Way continues to form the equivalent of one Sun every year.'
Source: Where Are New Stars Born? NASA’s Webb Telescope Will Investigate - NASA.

We can all 'rest' so to speak, from our former works that we did before becoming a Christian. - Hebrews 4:11

So good works are no longer required as a Jehovah's witness? In my view that explains the dishonesty of the JW governing body with respect to science i guess.

 

[Polymath257]

Job 22:14 does Not indicate a flat Earth.
It was non-Israelite nations that could have believed a flat Earth.

In the Hebrew I read at Isaiah 40:22
" It is He who sits on the circumference of the earth, ............; who spreads the heavens (plural) like a thin curtain, and stretches them like a tent to dwell in." - God who is the Master of nature. Circumference is round and not necessarily flat. Circumference of the globe.

- Isaiah 44:24; Zechariah 12:12

Once again, the image is of a flat, circular disk with a dome above its. To sit on the circumference is to sit on the edge.

I’d also point out that the earth is frequently described as having corners in the Bible, so consistency isn’t a strong point.

Nowhere does the Bible suggest the earth is spherical as opposed to being a disk. Nowhere is it described as a ball.

Further, the sky (or firmament) was often considered to be solid (for example, in Genesis). The earth was considered to be supported on pillars and the sky had doors to allow water through.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

My understanding is that according to modern claims, dark matter is capable of travelling faster than the speed of light.

You are mistaken.

"Nothing can travel faster than 300,000 kilometers per second (186,000 miles per second). Only massless particles, including photons, which make up light, can travel at that speed. "

Cosmic Speed Limit | AMNH

For centuries, physicists thought there was no limit to how fast an object could travel. But Einstein showed that the universe does, in fact, have a speed limit.

www.amnh.org

 

[IndigoChild5559]

that is not a point of contention...the reference article talks about "the fabric of space" being outside the bounds of the speed of light. My interpretation when reading is that its refering to dark matter as the fabric of space.

Actually it is a point of contention. Your original post claimed that Dark MATTER could travel faster than the speed of light. Then when asked for your source, you quoted from a site on Dark ENERGY.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

And so Christianity is not for you

I've known a great many chrsitians who do not take Genesis 1 literally. The pope, for example, accepts evolution.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I provided the reference...just that you did not read the post where it was cited.

And I already explained to you that that article is about something other then dark matter traveling faster then the speed of light.
The evidence suggest that you are the one who's not reading - at least not with attention.

In thinking about this point, at what speed was the big bang determined by science to have occurred?

Can you reformulate that question so that it actually makes sense?

Was it not one of the few things that travel faster than the speed of light?

The expansion of space time is not a thing that travels through space.

So if "nothing" can travel faster than the speed of light. how then did "nothing" do exactly that in the big bang?

It didn't. Space-time expanding is not a thing that is traveling through space-time.
You are confusing an object traveling through space-time with the expansion of space-time itself.

I'm sorry that you can't comprehend the difference.

Also there's this in wikipedia on the subject of Dark Matter...

In astronomy, dark matter is a hypothetical form of matter that appears to not interact with light or the electromagnetic field. Dark matter is implied by gravitational effects which cannot be explained by general relativity​

​

Point? Do you think this somehow helps you? How?

Also, i have a question for you... A light shining inside the cabin of a flying aircraft is measured from within the cabin what would its speed be?

The speed of light.

What would that light speed be if measured from a static source that is not moving (outside the cabin of the plane)

Speed of light.

If we then add the rotation of the earth into the mix...would the actual speed of light inside that aircraft cabin be speed of light +/- speed of aircraft +/- speed of rotation of the earth (which is approx)17,000km/hr when measured from the moon...or the sun...or outside the milky way?

Still the speed of light.

Would not the speed of light be relative to the system inside which it is emitted, but when calculated from outside of that system, it could actually be significantly different? Isnt this how we explain light from the very edge of the universe never reaching us because the fabric of the universe perimeter if you like, is stretching out faster than the speed of light?

The whole point of relativity is that the speed of light looks the same from all angles. Which means that relative to the observer, it's time itself that slows down / speeds up.

If you are in a space ship traveling near the speed of light and put on your headlights, you will measure the light from those headlights at the speed of light moving forward. Yet that light won't be going at twice the speed of light relative to a static observer. Time slows down instead.

When you approach extreme speeds, or extreme gravity, weird sh!t starts happening.

So getting back to the point of creation, if measuring the speed of things is relative to the system from which that measurement is taken, could not God also create much faster than millions or billions of years because we are measuring from within that system?

​

Considering a god is defined as an all-powerfull being that can literally do anything, I guess you could say that god could do anything.
Not that it helps you along in any in actually answering any questions with any meaningfull answers.....

How did the plague come about. "god did it".
Great. How does that explain anything?
It doesn, off course.

So let's just stick to the evidence instead.
The evidence says the universe is at least 13.7 billion years old.
Einstein's equations have been demonstrated to be so ridiculously accurate, that it's kind of perverse to try and argue against them.

At best, you can say that it still doesn't play along nicely with quantum physics. We are still missing that grand theory that unites both these worlds. In the meantime, we can only go by our best explanations.
And relatvity most definitely sits right up there with the best possible current explanations.

 

[ratiocinator]

Was it not one of the few things that travel faster than the speed of light?

No.

Also there's this in wikipedia on the subject of Dark Matter...

In astronomy, dark matter is a hypothetical form of matter that appears to not interact with light or the electromagnetic field. Dark matter is implied by gravitational effects which cannot be explained by general relativity

Nothing about it travelling faster than light...

Also, i have a question for you... A light shining inside the cabin of a flying aircraft is measured from within the cabin what would its speed be?

What would that light speed be if measured from a static source that is not moving (outside the cabin of the plane)

It is one of the basics of relativity that the speed of light is constant regardless of the speed of its source or the speed at which you are travelling, relative to its source, when you measure it.

Velocities are not additive. The normal addition of speeds is just an approximation at speeds very much less than light-speed.