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Yes, but how did it all get started in the first place?

footprints

Well-Known Member
Ignore who?

LOL that would be me. Some people have just realised that their own bliefs are built on a fairytale and don't like it. It is normal human reation, they cannot be wrong, so it has to be me, completely rational and logical from their own perspective. Completely irrational and illogical though from the point of logic and reason.
 
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tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie

Evolution does happen. Even with our grossly incomplete understanding of the fossil pages laid down in the layers of the earth’s crust, we can see the progression of species over time. We can even trace portions of our own human ancestry.

But I do not believe that evolution was an accident.
Al

Do you believe evolution is guided? Or that it was pointed in the right direction from the onset of abiogenesis?
 

footprints

Well-Known Member
Sometimes a bit of trolling is necessary when it comes to certain matters. Speaking of ignoring you, I'm thinking of hopping aboard that boat once I figure out how on Earth I'm meant to do so.

Nevermind, figured out how.

Trolling is only necessary for the narrow and simple minded (they believe it is intelligent). The only thing is does is causes disharmony, lol not with me though, it just makes me laugh. God, I love human intelligence, it is so stupid and childish at times.

Ignoring a person is pretty much the same thing, without the narrow minded projection in it, albeit some posters don't mind coming in for the cheap shots and not posting to me directly. LOL this is how I know they are not really ignoring me at all, I sort of have my own little fan club, in the form of a dog pack.

LOL the thing I like about you Malleus is you do have intelligence, you do see reason better than some others, so are therefore more uniformly balanced. They don't really ignore me, Auto follows nearly every word I write, so does tumbleweed et al, they can't help it. They are the people who would watch an evangelist just to get pis**d off, or the people who would throw a tissy fit, if they seen a sign in front of a church thinking there was some sort of voodoo magic in it that was going to convert people to religion as quick as they look at it.

Human intelligence from the atheist and even lay scientist (this could mean a student or scientist still green behind the ears as well as the google experts trying to appear scientific) perception would say I am stupid, I have to be according to their perception I don't buy the power of suggestions they add to their equations to make it come out in their favour with as high a probability as they do. I don't lean to Blind Faith as much as a person like Richard Dawkins does. What they see as black and white (subjective), I see as a blurr of colours yet to retain or emit all colours from it (objective). Down the path of Wisdom (a higher form of intelligence), a wise person knows, look at all knowledge even that which goes against your own belief patterns, you never know, it could be right. Always keep an open mind and never close it, for this is the path of reason.

To ignore somebody is easy, even a child can do it for it is a childish thing, just shut your eyes and pretend I am not there, here or anywhere, or change the channel (in a forum like this it means not reading or seeing anything I write or written about me). If you see me in thread topic, get out of it quick, go to threads which don't really interest me or I am asked not to post in for a variety of reasons, like this thread is for atheists only, in most cases I will not even open it, for it has nothing to do with me.
 
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APW

Member
Hi Tumbleweed (cool moniker, by the way):
I think that evolution was, to some extent guided up to the point where beings evolved which could make that jump from consciousness to self-consciousness. Us, Homo sapiens. Beings, evolved from animals who could know and become indwelt by the spirit of God.
 
From that day forward I suspect we have been on our own.
Al
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
All I know is my kids didnt get here in 6 days.It took longer than that.

But what matters is we are here now.And we just have to make the best of it.

Love

Dallas
 

footprints

Well-Known Member
This presumes that evolution has some overall purpose, which it doesn't.

It also presumes, that there are only two possiblities of paths to life, this way or that. It further presumes that mankind has all the knowledge of the universe to make such bold claims.

So many presumptions, but that is human intelligence and perception for you. Sigh, not many in life can apply scientific method to themselves.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
All I know is my kids didnt get here in 6 days.It took longer than that.
But what matters is we are here now.And we just have to make the best of it.
Love
Dallas

Might not it be true that to some 'to make the best of it' would be taking the course of least resistance? According to Scripture Jesus did not do that.

We can see by Genesis 2:4 that the word 'day' did not mean a literal 24-hour day for the six creative days because it sums up all of the creative days as a 'day'. Were each of the creative days the same length since there is nothing in Scripture to say? When did the 7th day start, and since it was still on-going in the apostle Paul's day (Hebrews 4:4-10), when will it end?
 
We can see by Genesis 2:4 that the word 'day' did not mean a literal 24-hour day for the six creative days because it sums up all of the creative days as a 'day'. Were each of the creative days the same length since there is nothing in Scripture to say? When did the 7th day start, and since it was still on-going in the apostle Paul's day (Hebrews 4:4-10), when will it end?

I've heard over and over, from both atheists and theists that there is a possible chance that the biblical definition of "day" differs from the modern-day definition of "day" but haven't heard a biblical definition that says the exact amount of time the biblical day encompasses.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The length of the six 'creative days' are unknown. The 7th day of Genesis has no closing.

In Genesis, after creating the sun and moon (two great lights), at Gen 1:16-18 God had the lights do something. God made the already created lights to 'rule' . The Sun's job would be to rule by day and moon would rule by night. So that is our 24-hour day as we know it even today.

God can be patient with us because he is not limited by time as we are. In his eyes a thousand years is a day (24 hr day) 2 Peter 3:8. The 'Lord's day' of Revelation 1:10 is also figurative and not a literal 24 hr day. So the word day in Scripture has various shades of meaning. (Gen 2:4) Even today we might talk of 'grandfather's day' and know it means more than a literal 24 hours.
 

footprints

Well-Known Member
I've heard over and over, from both atheists and theists that there is a possible chance that the biblical definition of "day" differs from the modern-day definition of "day" but haven't heard a biblical definition that says the exact amount of time the biblical day encompasses.

That Malleus is because it isn't relevant to the bible. It doesn't matter. A day is however long it took. It is only relevant to people in modern times trying to prove their own association patterns be this for or against the bible.

As a hunter and gatherer, the Australian Aboriginal didn't have a day, a week, a month or even a year. They had periods of light and periods of dark. They didn't have seasons, they had a time to move based on the nature patterns around them or when food and water became scarce in the area they were in. Their long term time was measured in generations which are marked in their drawings and paintings as dots.
 
The length of the six 'creative days' are unknown. The 7th day of Genesis has no closing.

When you say the 7th day has no closing, I assume that means it doesn't end. That in fact makes it no longer unknown for it is now known that it doesn't end. The question that then arises is if one day does not end, then do the other days follow en suite also?

In Genesis, after creating the sun and moon (two great lights), at Gen 1:16-18 God had the lights do something. God made the already created lights to 'rule' . The Sun's job would be to rule by day and moon would rule by night. So that is our 24-hour day as we know it even today.

You're assuming though that back when Genesis was written, there was factual knowledge that a day is 24 hours. All you mentioned is there is a moon and a sun, and the day consists of time from both. You're missing the argument that shows how back then the day was 24 hours. If you simply meant to say that nowadays a day is 24 hours but back then it may have not been, then I agree.

God can be patient with us because he is not limited by time as we are. In his eyes a thousand years is a day (24 hr day) 2 Peter 3:8. The 'Lord's day' of Revelation 1:10 is also figurative and not a literal 24 hr day. So the word day in Scripture has various shades of meaning. (Gen 2:4) Even today we might talk of 'grandfather's day' and know it means more than a literal 24 hours.

Now there's a problem: above you said the days were of unknown length and one was never to end, yet now you're giving me a finite amount. I'm not understanding your argument for 2 Peter 3:8 whereby you say what they call a thousand year is a 24-hour day. All it says is that a thousand year is a day and their definition of a day isn't given and so where's your argument showing their definition is indeed 24 hours? It's interesting how you then continue in saying the scripture has different meanings on it, yet you still stick to defining a day as 24 hours lol. It's like saying "x can be anything in the world, any number I don't know what it always it but for me it's always 3". Makes no sense.

That Malleus is because it isn't relevant to the bible. It doesn't matter. A day is however long it took. It is only relevant to people in modern times trying to prove their own association patterns be this for or against the bible.

As much as we have disagreed, this I agree with.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Genesis 2:4 sums up all of the six creative days with the word 'day'.
I guess at the end of the work week God was calling it 'a day' .

Oops! should have said the 7th day has no closing in Genesis.
The 7th day is more than one thousand years long because the 7th day was still on-going in Paul's day- Hebrews 4:4-10. Context and background helps determine meaning.

When Moses started to write Genesis the day was a 24-hour long day. Look at the sun rise each day. The sun doesn't literally rise but we understand what that means.
We know if the earth were not to follow the same course each day it would not be here.
Ecc 1:4 B.

The 'a thousand years is as a day' ties in with the connection with the good things to come in the future under Jesus millennial rule, or thousand-year day, when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Genesis 2:4 sums up all of the six creative days with the word 'day'.
I guess at the end of the work week God was calling it 'a day' .

Oops! should have said the 7th day has no closing in Genesis.
The 7th day is more than one thousand years long because the 7th day was still on-going in Paul's day- Hebrews 4:4-10. Context and background helps determine meaning.

When Moses started to write Genesis the day was a 24-hour long day. Look at the sun rise each day. The sun doesn't literally rise but we understand what that means.
We know if the earth were not to follow the same course each day it would not be here.
Ecc 1:4 B.

The 'a thousand years is as a day' ties in with the connection with the good things to come in the future under Jesus millennial rule, or thousand-year day, when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/biblical-debates/90416-length-creation-day.html
 
Genesis 2:4 sums up all of the six creative days with the word 'day'.

So? It doesn't say anywhere in Gen 2:4 about the length of that day so I don't see what you're trying to show here.

Oops! should have said the 7th day has no closing in Genesis.
The 7th day is more than one thousand years long because the 7th day was still on-going in Paul's day- Hebrews 4:4-10. Context and background helps determine meaning.

This brings me back to me point that out of 7 days, if 1/7 is of different length than the other 6/7 days, how can you accurately define how long a single day is? If you do, then because of the 7th day, it serves as an exception to your definition, thereby having it being false.

When Moses started to write Genesis the day was a 24-hour long day.

Here is where you haven't provided any proof but keep asserting you're true. Where in the bible does it say it's a 24-hour day? Yes the Sun rises and sets but the problem with using that as evidence is that it can mean 23 hours, 25 hours, 22.5 hours, etc... . You're making an inference but have no proof for it, so provide proof otherwise your statement is null and void.

We know if the earth were not to follow the same course each day it would not be here.
Ecc 1:4 B.

This is irrelevant to the debate at hand as I'm asking you for evidence on how you know it's a 24 hour day in what the bible calls a day, not whether the bible says the Earth will be fine.
 

nonbeliever_92

Well-Known Member
Why didn't god just clap his cross his arms and give a quick brief dip of his head? If god is god, why did he have to rest after creating the world?
 
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