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YHWH worship and Left Hand Paths

Aštra’el

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
Explain why you feel one may or may not combine YHWH worship and LHP.

 
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Liu

Liu

Well-Known Member
It depends on what exactly is meant by that and with what reasoning and motive it's done.

Which aspects of YHWH are you concentrating on? There are many that seem to oppose pretty much every kind of LHP: In the OT he is authoritarian and favors group-mentality over individual mentality. He claims there is only one truth and demands a huge list of often arbitrary rules to be followed to the word for no other reason than because he said so. In the NT he is all about selflessness and helping everyone. Many of his typical worshipers tend to be hypocrites and not even notice it themselves.

All those aspects don't make it a typical deity to be chosen by a LHPer at all, and the only two reasons I see why LHPers would want to worship him is either because they want to break through this aversion and thereby overcome their own taboos, or simply because they have fallen in love with him for whatever strange reason and want to follow their feelings.

And what do you mean by worship? Expressing your feelings of adoration? Seems fine to me.
Experimenting how it is to do veneration rituals to such a deity? Interesting choice, but totally fine - just take care that you get out of that rabbit hole again before you completely lose yourself in it.
Giving up your individuality and acting against your own nature for hope that an external deity will give you their grace? Not so much - but I doubt that's what you mean. On the other hand, that would be what that deity demands, so he (taking a theistic view for a moment) wouldn't accept you as one of his followers and your worship were either in vain or at least only of value for yourself.

Actually I find all that an important question. I recently read Black/Hyatt's "Pacts with the Devil" which concentrates on the kind of rituals Christians would do (or even have done historically) to make demons do their bidding. I found I have some aversion against those ritual texts since most of them acknowledge a Christian worldview, calling upon "Adonai" for protection with attributes that explicitly refer to the Christian god and that imply the literal truth of the bible (and because they treat the demons like sh*t which seems like a bad idea in basically any thought paradigm).

Despite the chaos-magick-approach that I have towards rituals (if I believe in their effectiveness at all), which would make it irrelevant whether the mythology a ritual is based on is true or not, it feels not right to me to do a ritual based on the Christian worldview. And I think that is not uncommon and might be a personal taboo many people would benefit from approaching.
 
lovesong

lovesong

:D
Premium Member
You absolutely can! Yahweh is nothing more than the Jewish god of war. Historically he comes from the ancient Jewish pantheon, and only later came to be known as the one and only god. Throughout his reign over the Jews he has lead them into war, driven them to murder, and encouraged sacrifice in his name. A violent god such as this can easily be incorporated into a LHP tradition.
 
EtuMalku

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Does this worship include Antinomianism/Heterodoxy and Self-Deification? If not then it is not a LHP
 
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
What purpose would such worship serve to further a LHP goal?
 
K

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
crossfire said:
Actually it is, according to your own posts in this thread.
Click to expand...

I didn't agree with his statements or positions generally speaking nor do I agree with the one he made here.

The closest you might get is that I said some Hindu and Buddhist LHP has self deification in a similar sense to what some "western" LHP described. I never described it as being antinomian in anyway he meant it, acutally I can't recall ever explicitly saying it was antinomian at all. I did describe it as heterodox however. All I did in that topic was say that it's a definition some have, not that I agree with it.

I'm reading his post here with the context of his continual assertions that what I and other Hindus do isn't self-deification and isn't Left Hand Path in either case in multiple topics, and his constant attempts on the forums to fish to getting certain answers in the Hindu DIR about "goals" and stuff across multiple topics to support his assertions.

Quote from my post there:

We need to be mindful of not trying to decide who is "real" Left Hand Path or not, not just out of respect for each other's beliefs but out of respect for the forum rules.
Click to expand...

I think telling someone they are not LHP without X Y and Z as if they are facts runs counter to my actual posts in the topic. What he said in his post just there seemed like the start of the same old conversation.

Actually many LHP don't see self deification as an important part of the Left Hand Path, I think another guy on the topic actually linked to one such person (a Setian) posting as such on this exact same forum.

I also disagreed here with Etu's positions on the matter: http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/western-and-eastern-lhp.187297/page-5#post-4770022

So no, your statement about what I said isn't true.
 
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K

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I really don't think trying to define what is and isn't LHP is going to get us anywhere. It's an old argument and I won't be part of derailing this thread. I only wanted to explicitly refute the assertion about my beliefs and statements.

Looking back I might of over reacted and misinterpreted what Etu's intentions here but it was a knee jerk reaction because of the very long conversations in at least 2 or 3 threads now on the topic in this DIR. If I assumed wrong I apologize to him for my mistake.

I think what the OP is after is our attitudes towards Yahweh and if we see Yahweh as capable of being worshiped as a Left Hand Path entity.
 
ThirtyThree

ThirtyThree

Well-Known Member
Mandi said:
I didn't agree with his statements or positions generally speaking nor do I agree with the one he made here.

The closest you might get is that I said some Hindu and Buddhist LHP has self deification in a similar sense to what some "western" LHP described. I never described it as being antinomian in anyway he meant it, acutally I can't recall ever explicitly saying it was antinomian at all. I did describe it as heterodox however. All I did in that topic was say that it's a definition some have, not that I agree with it.

I'm reading his post here with the context of his continual assertions that what I and other Hindus do isn't self-deification and isn't Left Hand Path in either case in multiple topics, and his constant attempts on the forums to fish to getting certain answers in the Hindu DIR about "goals" and stuff across multiple topics to support his assertions.

Quote from my post there:



I think telling someone they are not LHP without X Y and Z as if they are facts runs counter to my actual posts in the topic. What he said in his post just there seemed like the start of the same old conversation.

Actually many LHP don't see self deification as an important part of the Left Hand Path, I think another guy on the topic actually linked to one such person (a Setian) posting as such on this exact same forum.

I also disagreed here with Etu's positions on the matter: http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/western-and-eastern-lhp.187297/page-5#post-4770022

So no, your statement about what I said isn't true.
Click to expand...
Self deification, in my opinion, is ridiculous. The closest I believe one can come is to fully realize their deity's nature within themselves. In other words, to become the ideal embodiment, not generally of their deity directly but their deity's nature, will and so on. I do not believe humans can be deities. Humans are mortal. Maybe if someone can overcome physical mortality, they might be closer to what I might call a god?
 
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EtuMalku

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Mandi said:
I really don't think trying to define what is and isn't LHP is going to get us anywhere. It's an old argument and I won't be part of derailing this thread. I only wanted to explicitly refute the assertion about my beliefs and statements.

Looking back I might of over reacted and misinterpreted what Etu's intentions here but it was a knee jerk reaction because of the very long conversations in at least 2 or 3 threads now on the topic in this DIR. If I assumed wrong I apologize to him for my mistake.

I think what the OP is after is our attitudes towards Yahweh and if we see Yahweh as capable of being worshiped as a Left Hand Path entity.
Click to expand...
Doesn't it seem that the OP is equating LHP with sinister intention?
 
EtuMalku

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
IMO we have not concluded this discussion on what or what isn't LHP be it Western or Eastern . . . or that they are one and the same.
I think it's fairly accurate if perhaps a little closed box to say that the LHP assumes:
1) Heterodoxy in the Eastern traditions
2) Antinomianism in the Western traditions
3) Some form of Self-Deification in both traditions

In WLHP there is no deity involved, Self-Deification takes place in the form of Autotheism whereas in the East it appears to be another type of Self-Deification and I won't pretend I know what it is called or understand it very well.
 
Aštra’el

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
EtuMalku said:
Doesn't it seem that the OP is equating LHP with sinister intention?
Click to expand...

The OP is asking why you personally do or do not believe YHWH worship may be embraced by one who you consider to be LHP.

In other words... is there a way for one to worship YHWH in a manner that you personally consider to be LHP?




 
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